| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland 17:21 - Feb 25 with 4844 views | Guthrum |
From The Guardian:
'Russia’s foreign ministry spokesperson, Maria Zakharova, has warned both Finland and Sweden that they will face “detrimental military and political consequences” if they attempt to join Nato.
Zakharova was speaking at a press conference in Moscow earlier this afternoon, where she warned that the Nato accession of either Finland or Sweden would spark a serious response from Moscow.
We regard the Finnish government’s commitment to a military non-alignment policy as an important factor in ensuring security and stability in northern Europe.'
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:27 - Feb 25 with 2882 views | Rob88 |
I can’t help thinking we should call their bluff and fast track them in to NATO.
Part of me wishes NATO had done that with Ukraine. I know it’s not that simple and that’s probably not the best thing to do but that’s what the emotive side of me thinks at the moment.
I hope people never forget this like they so quickly did with Crimea, Georgia etc….. This is the result of too many people choosing to look away and burry their heads in the sand for too long. |  | | |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:30 - Feb 25 with 2851 views | homer_123 |
This is not surprising at all.
Begs the question....at what point do we get involved military?
If we continue to stand by doing nothing...what stops Putin doing just that? Sanctions will not work without China supporting them...even if not publicly.
He was allowed to annex Crimea without any serious or even half hearted response.
What about Estonia...Latvia....etc al
By the way....war sucks....but there comes a point [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 17:32]
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:32 - Feb 25 with 2811 views | Guthrum |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:30 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
This is not surprising at all.
Begs the question....at what point do we get involved military?
If we continue to stand by doing nothing...what stops Putin doing just that? Sanctions will not work without China supporting them...even if not publicly.
He was allowed to annex Crimea without any serious or even half hearted response.
What about Estonia...Latvia....etc al
By the way....war sucks....but there comes a point [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 17:32]
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How long until Putin demands the Baltic States leave NATO? | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:32 - Feb 25 with 2810 views | Coastalblue |
They are really pushing the boat out aren't they?
One thing to go into Ukraine where they might convince you they actually believe their reasoning, but to try and dictate to Swden and Finland what their foriegn policy should be is a whole new level.
Either we see a huge confrontation brewing or the start of a new cold war. |  |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:32 - Feb 25 with 2806 views | positivity |
that'll go down well in finland, massive historical distrust of russia already... | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:35 - Feb 25 with 2774 views | homer_123 |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:32 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
How long until Putin demands the Baltic States leave NATO? |
This is escalating far too quickly because no one is prepared to counter him. If left...you are right...that will likely be next.
He's going full on USSR. | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:35 - Feb 25 with 2752 views | homer_123 |
Ah paywall....what's the gist? | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:36 - Feb 25 with 2753 views | Guthrum |
Paywalled, but I was aware both countries had been putting out feelers for some months in the light of the deteriorating situation. | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:39 - Feb 25 with 2716 views | positivity |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:36 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
Paywalled, but I was aware both countries had been putting out feelers for some months in the light of the deteriorating situation. |
can't work out if:-
now's the best time for them to quickly join nato while russia has another battle
or
whether putin's now gone so full-rogue, he'll lash out whatever the consequences | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:40 - Feb 25 with 2700 views | homer_123 |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:39 - Feb 25 by positivity |
can't work out if:-
now's the best time for them to quickly join nato while russia has another battle
or
whether putin's now gone so full-rogue, he'll lash out whatever the consequences |
He's not even deployed anywhere near his full capacity in the Ukraine and won't need to. | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:41 - Feb 25 with 2693 views | Guthrum |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:35 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
This is escalating far too quickly because no one is prepared to counter him. If left...you are right...that will likely be next.
He's going full on USSR. |
How do you counter a man who can sit in the Kremlin bunker and incinerate the western hemisphere without care that his own people may receive the same in return?
The leaders of the USSR at least wanted to perpetuate their own political system. Putin does not have one. He gets his own way or pulls the house down. | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:44 - Feb 25 with 2657 views | Guthrum |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:40 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
He's not even deployed anywhere near his full capacity in the Ukraine and won't need to. |
He's deployed the majority of his effective forces against Ukraine. There's a lot of conscript infantry and old tanks, but they are only good for bulking up the numbers.
Tho he's not relying on that, but a strong airforce and his strategic forces. | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:52 - Feb 25 with 2584 views | Mercian |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:30 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
This is not surprising at all.
Begs the question....at what point do we get involved military?
If we continue to stand by doing nothing...what stops Putin doing just that? Sanctions will not work without China supporting them...even if not publicly.
He was allowed to annex Crimea without any serious or even half hearted response.
What about Estonia...Latvia....etc al
By the way....war sucks....but there comes a point [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 17:32]
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War does suck I promise you but when your enemy pulls you into the dirt then they must be fought there. A bit of tangent but yesterday I bought a new £400 monitor which has come close to destruction everytime I see Putin's face on it. His comment about "Druggy Nazis" in particular mad me seethe. | | | |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:55 - Feb 25 with 2541 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:35 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
Ah paywall....what's the gist? |
"Russia’s sabre-rattling in Ukraine has reignited a debate in Finland about whether the Nordic country should join Nato, defying Moscow’s demands that the military alliance limit its expansion in Europe.
Both Finland’s president, Sauli Niinisto, and prime minister, Sanna Marin, used new year addresses to underscore that the country reserved the option of seeking Nato membership at any time.
“Let it be stated once again: Finland’s room to manoeuvre and freedom of choice also include the possibility of military alignment and of applying for Nato membership, should we ourselves so decide,” Niinisto said.
Marin added in her separate speech that every country had the right to decide its own security policy, stressing: “We have shown that we have learnt from the past. We will not let go of our room for manoeuvre.”
Russia’s foreign ministry said last week that Finland and Sweden joining Nato “would have serious military and political consequences that would require an adequate response from the Russian side”.
The US, Russia and Nato member states are set to meet for talks in early January as Moscow has amassed about 100,000 troops on Ukraine’s eastern frontier.
President Joe Biden also spoke with Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky on Sunday and vowed that the US and its allies would “respond decisively” in the event of a Russian invasion.
Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, has previously refused to rule out military action and has warned he has “all kinds” of options if his demands for “security guarantees” to limit Nato expansion are unmet.
Finland and neighbouring Sweden are both militarily non-aligned but have a growing co-operation with Nato as well as strong bilateral relationships with members of the alliance such as Norway, the US, and UK.
There is no sense of Finland imminently applying for Nato membership, but Russia’s activity on its border with Ukraine and its list of demands before Christmas have fired up an internal debate in Helsinki to a level last seen after Moscow’s annexation of Crimea in 2014.
Niinisto also warned the west that it risked empowering Russia if it removed the threat of possible military action. Citing former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger on appeasing Nazi Germany, the Finnish president said: “Whenever avoidance of war has been the primary objective of a group of powers, the international system has been at the mercy of its most ruthless member.”
Petteri Orpo, leader of the main opposition National Coalition party, a longtime supporter of Nato membership, said that now was the time to discuss whether Finland should apply and that he believed joining would improve its security and that of the region.
“Russia has recently suggested that the possible Nato membership of Finland and Sweden would force it to retaliate militarily. Such a speech is reprehensible and ultimately says more about Russia’s ultimate goals than Finland’s or Sweden’s. Finland does not pose a threat to Russia now or in any other way,” Orpo wrote on Thursday in a post on his party’s website.
Atte Harjanne, an active reservist and head of the parliamentary group of the Green party, a member of the ruling five-party government coalition, said the arguments for Finland joining Nato had been “strengthened” and the country should do so immediately.
Leading politicians in the three Baltic countries believe Finnish and Swedish membership in Nato is crucial to improving the security situation on Russia’s western border amid worries about Ukraine as well as about Belarus and its use of migrants to test Poland, Lithuania and Latvia.
Finland and Sweden joining Nato “could make entire northern Europe much more stable and safer”, said Marko Mihkelson, head of Estonia’s parliamentary foreign affairs committee.
Finland is one of the few European countries that did not significantly cut its military strength after the cold war, as its 1,340km border with Russia, and memories of the bitterly fought 1939-40 winter war against the Soviet Union ensured security matters retained a high priority.
But Finland has also preserved close diplomatic and commercial ties with Russia, and security experts said Niinisto was perhaps the European leader most respected by Putin, with whom he has regular conversations.' |  | | |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:56 - Feb 25 with 2535 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
The “everything is NATO’s fault” crew are notable for their absence last couple of days.
Very evident that in fact Russia are the unprompted aggressors. | | | |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:01 - Feb 25 with 2492 views | Steve_M |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:32 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
How long until Putin demands the Baltic States leave NATO? |
He already did. And Poland and the other Eastern European members.
Now what is it about Russia that has encouraged all of those countries to join NATO? |  |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:03 - Feb 25 with 2472 views | homer_123 |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:44 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
He's deployed the majority of his effective forces against Ukraine. There's a lot of conscript infantry and old tanks, but they are only good for bulking up the numbers.
Tho he's not relying on that, but a strong airforce and his strategic forces. |
He's got circa 900000 troops of which around 200000 are on the Ukraine border.
Russia's tactics are to deploy in stages...we are currently only seeing the second tranche. He's barely had to use much sir power either.
He's still got a lot of troops and various mechanics on the border yet to be deployed and given where the second tranche has got him...he may not need more.
He's opened the land border already in the South/East.
So...he would be more than capable of turning his attention elsewhere relatively quickly. | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:04 - Feb 25 with 2447 views | homer_123 |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:41 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
How do you counter a man who can sit in the Kremlin bunker and incinerate the western hemisphere without care that his own people may receive the same in return?
The leaders of the USSR at least wanted to perpetuate their own political system. Putin does not have one. He gets his own way or pulls the house down. |
So...he gets his own way? | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:12 - Feb 25 with 2394 views | homer_123 |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:03 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
He's got circa 900000 troops of which around 200000 are on the Ukraine border.
Russia's tactics are to deploy in stages...we are currently only seeing the second tranche. He's barely had to use much sir power either.
He's still got a lot of troops and various mechanics on the border yet to be deployed and given where the second tranche has got him...he may not need more.
He's opened the land border already in the South/East.
So...he would be more than capable of turning his attention elsewhere relatively quickly. |
And don't forget Russia has Wagner and Chechen militia at their disposal.
He doesn't need to occupy the Ukraine either. | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:15 - Feb 25 with 2366 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 17:55 - Feb 25 by Eireannach_gorm |
"Russia’s sabre-rattling in Ukraine has reignited a debate in Finland about whether the Nordic country should join Nato, defying Moscow’s demands that the military alliance limit its expansion in Europe.
Both Finland’s president, Sauli Niinisto, and prime minister, Sanna Marin, used new year addresses to underscore that the country reserved the option of seeking Nato membership at any time.
“Let it be stated once again: Finland’s room to manoeuvre and freedom of choice also include the possibility of military alignment and of applying for Nato membership, should we ourselves so decide,” Niinisto said.
Marin added in her separate speech that every country had the right to decide its own security policy, stressing: “We have shown that we have learnt from the past. We will not let go of our room for manoeuvre.”
Russia’s foreign ministry said last week that Finland and Sweden joining Nato “would have serious military and political consequences that would require an adequate response from the Russian side”.
The US, Russia and Nato member states are set to meet for talks in early January as Moscow has amassed about 100,000 troops on Ukraine’s eastern frontier.
President Joe Biden also spoke with Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky on Sunday and vowed that the US and its allies would “respond decisively” in the event of a Russian invasion.
Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, has previously refused to rule out military action and has warned he has “all kinds” of options if his demands for “security guarantees” to limit Nato expansion are unmet.
Finland and neighbouring Sweden are both militarily non-aligned but have a growing co-operation with Nato as well as strong bilateral relationships with members of the alliance such as Norway, the US, and UK.
There is no sense of Finland imminently applying for Nato membership, but Russia’s activity on its border with Ukraine and its list of demands before Christmas have fired up an internal debate in Helsinki to a level last seen after Moscow’s annexation of Crimea in 2014.
Niinisto also warned the west that it risked empowering Russia if it removed the threat of possible military action. Citing former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger on appeasing Nazi Germany, the Finnish president said: “Whenever avoidance of war has been the primary objective of a group of powers, the international system has been at the mercy of its most ruthless member.”
Petteri Orpo, leader of the main opposition National Coalition party, a longtime supporter of Nato membership, said that now was the time to discuss whether Finland should apply and that he believed joining would improve its security and that of the region.
“Russia has recently suggested that the possible Nato membership of Finland and Sweden would force it to retaliate militarily. Such a speech is reprehensible and ultimately says more about Russia’s ultimate goals than Finland’s or Sweden’s. Finland does not pose a threat to Russia now or in any other way,” Orpo wrote on Thursday in a post on his party’s website.
Atte Harjanne, an active reservist and head of the parliamentary group of the Green party, a member of the ruling five-party government coalition, said the arguments for Finland joining Nato had been “strengthened” and the country should do so immediately.
Leading politicians in the three Baltic countries believe Finnish and Swedish membership in Nato is crucial to improving the security situation on Russia’s western border amid worries about Ukraine as well as about Belarus and its use of migrants to test Poland, Lithuania and Latvia.
Finland and Sweden joining Nato “could make entire northern Europe much more stable and safer”, said Marko Mihkelson, head of Estonia’s parliamentary foreign affairs committee.
Finland is one of the few European countries that did not significantly cut its military strength after the cold war, as its 1,340km border with Russia, and memories of the bitterly fought 1939-40 winter war against the Soviet Union ensured security matters retained a high priority.
But Finland has also preserved close diplomatic and commercial ties with Russia, and security experts said Niinisto was perhaps the European leader most respected by Putin, with whom he has regular conversations.' |
Sweden and Finland joining kind of seems a moot point when NATO have a land border with Russia through Norway anyway though, no?
Just throwing his toys out of the pram? | | | |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:22 - Feb 25 with 2315 views | Guthrum |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:03 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
He's got circa 900000 troops of which around 200000 are on the Ukraine border.
Russia's tactics are to deploy in stages...we are currently only seeing the second tranche. He's barely had to use much sir power either.
He's still got a lot of troops and various mechanics on the border yet to be deployed and given where the second tranche has got him...he may not need more.
He's opened the land border already in the South/East.
So...he would be more than capable of turning his attention elsewhere relatively quickly. |
But a large portion of those 900k are militia or conscript infantry. They aren't the forces to be spearheading an invasion of anywhere.
Special forces, modernised armoured units, airborne troops and naval infantry are the ones which count. There's much more limited numbers of those. Most of them are currently deployed against Ukraine. | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:23 - Feb 25 with 2297 views | Churchman |
If free democratic countries wish to join NATO, they should be welcomed in. Fast. If Russia doesn’t like it, that’s irrelevant. They are free to make their choices. |  | | |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:26 - Feb 25 with 2267 views | homer_123 |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:22 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
But a large portion of those 900k are militia or conscript infantry. They aren't the forces to be spearheading an invasion of anywhere.
Special forces, modernised armoured units, airborne troops and naval infantry are the ones which count. There's much more limited numbers of those. Most of them are currently deployed against Ukraine. |
I refer you again to the Russia typical attacks. Not all of those 200000 units have been deployed. Only two waves of incursions and it looks like that is all they need.
A significant majority haven't been deployed.
"However, US intelligence believes that the bulk of the Russian forces around Ukraine - which depending on the accuracy of estimates represent some 50-60% of the total strength of the Russian Ground Forces - will not be involved in the initial phases of the attack. The US stated that Russia's invasion is designed to decapitate Ukraine's government: one of the three main axes of assault is directed at the capital Kyiv, a senior US defense official said." | |
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| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:27 - Feb 25 with 2259 views | homer_123 |
| And here come the threats to Sweden and Finland on 18:22 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
But a large portion of those 900k are militia or conscript infantry. They aren't the forces to be spearheading an invasion of anywhere.
Special forces, modernised armoured units, airborne troops and naval infantry are the ones which count. There's much more limited numbers of those. Most of them are currently deployed against Ukraine. |
They've actually got around 900000 active troops with around a million reservists based on the latest US figures. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 18:28]
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