| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters 13:34 - Mar 22 with 2945 views | ITFCRich |
Anyone else seen that Marcelo Flores (the kid poached from us by Arsenal a few years back) has been rated the 48th best wonderkid in the world by Goal... At least we signed his sister I suppose.. |  | | |  |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:41 - Mar 22 with 2285 views | MattinLondon |
Unless a wonderkid actually plays first team football then they won’t develop.
I know it’s probably not a fair comparison- Charlie Brown, was one of the most prolific strikers in U18 Champions League as well as other competitions. But, he’s hardly made a mark in mens football.
It’ll be interesting to see a similar list but from ten years ago. Wonder how many of the then top 50 actually made it. |  | | |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:45 - Mar 22 with 2263 views | itfcjoe |
Those lists are a bit funny, the fact he is Mexican will mean he gets a big jump opposed to being English as they go for profile to get clicks etc
But he is exceptionally talented, and is one who looks like he'll have a good career - obviously not an exact science but he is the real deal |  |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:50 - Mar 22 with 2202 views | MattinLondon |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:45 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
Those lists are a bit funny, the fact he is Mexican will mean he gets a big jump opposed to being English as they go for profile to get clicks etc
But he is exceptionally talented, and is one who looks like he'll have a good career - obviously not an exact science but he is the real deal |
Are a lot of these lists a tad lazy? Pick a massive club now pick a player who is highly rated and there-you-go.
I’m guessing that, as a club, we won’t be able to hold onto these players unless we’re on the PL? | | | |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:53 - Mar 22 with 2178 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:41 - Mar 22 by MattinLondon |
Unless a wonderkid actually plays first team football then they won’t develop.
I know it’s probably not a fair comparison- Charlie Brown, was one of the most prolific strikers in U18 Champions League as well as other competitions. But, he’s hardly made a mark in mens football.
It’ll be interesting to see a similar list but from ten years ago. Wonder how many of the then top 50 actually made it. |
Given that less than 1% of those playing academy football will make it professionally - that will possibly answer your question. |  |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:55 - Mar 22 with 2152 views | MattinLondon |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:53 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
Given that less than 1% of those playing academy football will make it professionally - that will possibly answer your question. |
That low? Blimey. | | | |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:58 - Mar 22 with 2136 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:55 - Mar 22 by MattinLondon |
That low? Blimey. |
Around 1 in 200 of kids taken on by academies will make it at any pro-level, so around 0.5%. | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:00 - Mar 22 with 2113 views | itfcjoe |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:58 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
Around 1 in 200 of kids taken on by academies will make it at any pro-level, so around 0.5%. |
I don't think that number is correct - doesn't pass the sense check.
Just look at Ipswich, if they took on 20 boys a year, whcih is a huge over estimate then they would have 200 in the academy - and generally 5 or so turn pro each season let alone one every 10 years | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:05 - Mar 22 with 2077 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:00 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
I don't think that number is correct - doesn't pass the sense check.
Just look at Ipswich, if they took on 20 boys a year, whcih is a huge over estimate then they would have 200 in the academy - and generally 5 or so turn pro each season let alone one every 10 years |
Don't take my word for it - plenty of research on it Joe.
"According to a research conducted by The English FA at the end of 2015 (“Football Talent Spotting: Are Clubs Getting It Wrong with Kids?”), the former FA Head of Talent Identification, Richard Allen revealed that less than 0.5% of the players aged under 9 that are signed by professional teams, go all the way to play for the first team at some point in their life."
More recently from the i
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-academy-players-figures-appear [Post edited 22 Mar 2022 14:06]
| |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:08 - Mar 22 with 2057 views | MattinLondon |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:05 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
Don't take my word for it - plenty of research on it Joe.
"According to a research conducted by The English FA at the end of 2015 (“Football Talent Spotting: Are Clubs Getting It Wrong with Kids?”), the former FA Head of Talent Identification, Richard Allen revealed that less than 0.5% of the players aged under 9 that are signed by professional teams, go all the way to play for the first team at some point in their life."
More recently from the i
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-academy-players-figures-appear [Post edited 22 Mar 2022 14:06]
|
From under 9 level…I’m not surprised then. But, I’m guessing that from the age of 15 onwards then that percentage increases significantly. | | | |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:11 - Mar 22 with 2024 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:08 - Mar 22 by MattinLondon |
From under 9 level…I’m not surprised then. But, I’m guessing that from the age of 15 onwards then that percentage increases significantly. |
Nope, not at all:
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-academy-players-figures-appear
97% of Prem players don't make it and 70% don't even get a pro contract either at Prem or FL level......it really is a very very small % that make it. [Post edited 22 Mar 2022 14:16]
| |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:23 - Mar 22 with 1962 views | TractorCam |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:41 - Mar 22 by MattinLondon |
Unless a wonderkid actually plays first team football then they won’t develop.
I know it’s probably not a fair comparison- Charlie Brown, was one of the most prolific strikers in U18 Champions League as well as other competitions. But, he’s hardly made a mark in mens football.
It’ll be interesting to see a similar list but from ten years ago. Wonder how many of the then top 50 actually made it. |
Just googled 2011, a fair few of these have become world class, but definitely more unrecognisable names.
Shout out to the massive Ipswich Town, who have a player on this list. Shame about his injuries.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/3376/goalcom-youth-football/2011/01/01/2284652/goal |  |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:49 - Mar 22 with 1845 views | itfcjoe |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:05 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
Don't take my word for it - plenty of research on it Joe.
"According to a research conducted by The English FA at the end of 2015 (“Football Talent Spotting: Are Clubs Getting It Wrong with Kids?”), the former FA Head of Talent Identification, Richard Allen revealed that less than 0.5% of the players aged under 9 that are signed by professional teams, go all the way to play for the first team at some point in their life."
More recently from the i
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-academy-players-figures-appear [Post edited 22 Mar 2022 14:06]
|
I still don’t buy it - if you look at the age group here of 1998/1999 born players - Dozzell, Downes, Woolfenden, Nydam, Morris, Folami, Ndaba and more all made first team appearances, all have pro contracts and all are still in the game at 23 bay Nydam as of this week - and then Nick Hayes is now back here
If only 1 in 200 make it, then how have 7 in one year made it? It would mean that unless clubs are taking on thousands of players it doesn’t add up
It must conflate players signing up at development centres when they are 5 tiers away from signing for the actual academy team who play matches | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:56 - Mar 22 with 1784 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:49 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
I still don’t buy it - if you look at the age group here of 1998/1999 born players - Dozzell, Downes, Woolfenden, Nydam, Morris, Folami, Ndaba and more all made first team appearances, all have pro contracts and all are still in the game at 23 bay Nydam as of this week - and then Nick Hayes is now back here
If only 1 in 200 make it, then how have 7 in one year made it? It would mean that unless clubs are taking on thousands of players it doesn’t add up
It must conflate players signing up at development centres when they are 5 tiers away from signing for the actual academy team who play matches |
You are looking at just one club Joe - and extrapolating from there.
This is the FAs own research not mine bud. | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:00 - Mar 22 with 1762 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:49 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
I still don’t buy it - if you look at the age group here of 1998/1999 born players - Dozzell, Downes, Woolfenden, Nydam, Morris, Folami, Ndaba and more all made first team appearances, all have pro contracts and all are still in the game at 23 bay Nydam as of this week - and then Nick Hayes is now back here
If only 1 in 200 make it, then how have 7 in one year made it? It would mean that unless clubs are taking on thousands of players it doesn’t add up
It must conflate players signing up at development centres when they are 5 tiers away from signing for the actual academy team who play matches |
It gets worse - albeit back in 2017 but how about this little stat:
CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report - April 2017
Since the 2009/10 season, the fielding of club-trained players in the five major European leagues has remained relatively stable at around 15% of minutes.
In terms of change, the biggest drop was observed in England. After having reached its maximum in August 2011 (13.6%), the percentage of minutes played by club-trained footballers in the Premier League has decreased steadily up until the present time (6.1%).
Also.....from another report:
Real Sociedad and Athletic Club Bilbao had 71.5% of domestic minutes played by their own club trained players and show the culture and philosophy of these clubs while AFC Bournemouth and Watford FC had just had 0.1 and 0.2% minutes played by their club trained players. | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:02 - Mar 22 with 1749 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:49 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
I still don’t buy it - if you look at the age group here of 1998/1999 born players - Dozzell, Downes, Woolfenden, Nydam, Morris, Folami, Ndaba and more all made first team appearances, all have pro contracts and all are still in the game at 23 bay Nydam as of this week - and then Nick Hayes is now back here
If only 1 in 200 make it, then how have 7 in one year made it? It would mean that unless clubs are taking on thousands of players it doesn’t add up
It must conflate players signing up at development centres when they are 5 tiers away from signing for the actual academy team who play matches |
Oh and you have:
Michael Calvin, author of the book "No Hunger in Paradise: The Players. The Journey. The Dream," about how children enrolled in academies have a very small chance of succeeding as professional footballers.
The statistics are really sobering. Out of all the boys who enter an academy at the age of 9, less than half of 1% make it. Or a make a living from the game either.
The most damning statistic of all is only 180 of the 1.5 million players who are playing organised youth football in England at any one time will make it as a Premier League pro.
That's a success rate of 0.012%. | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:07 - Mar 22 with 1710 views | TresBonne |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 13:41 - Mar 22 by MattinLondon |
Unless a wonderkid actually plays first team football then they won’t develop.
I know it’s probably not a fair comparison- Charlie Brown, was one of the most prolific strikers in U18 Champions League as well as other competitions. But, he’s hardly made a mark in mens football.
It’ll be interesting to see a similar list but from ten years ago. Wonder how many of the then top 50 actually made it. |
https://www.givemesport.com/1179201-the-top-20-best-young-players-on-football-ma
Have a look at this. Majority of these ended up having 'decent' careers.
Phil Jones is literally there! |  | | |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:08 - Mar 22 with 1699 views | Vaughan8 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:49 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
I still don’t buy it - if you look at the age group here of 1998/1999 born players - Dozzell, Downes, Woolfenden, Nydam, Morris, Folami, Ndaba and more all made first team appearances, all have pro contracts and all are still in the game at 23 bay Nydam as of this week - and then Nick Hayes is now back here
If only 1 in 200 make it, then how have 7 in one year made it? It would mean that unless clubs are taking on thousands of players it doesn’t add up
It must conflate players signing up at development centres when they are 5 tiers away from signing for the actual academy team who play matches |
I suppose there must be loads who get "signed" at under 9 and then released before they even make it to u18s etc. | | | |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:10 - Mar 22 with 1686 views | Veggie |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:49 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
I still don’t buy it - if you look at the age group here of 1998/1999 born players - Dozzell, Downes, Woolfenden, Nydam, Morris, Folami, Ndaba and more all made first team appearances, all have pro contracts and all are still in the game at 23 bay Nydam as of this week - and then Nick Hayes is now back here
If only 1 in 200 make it, then how have 7 in one year made it? It would mean that unless clubs are taking on thousands of players it doesn’t add up
It must conflate players signing up at development centres when they are 5 tiers away from signing for the actual academy team who play matches |
That year was maybe a bit of freak as there are nowhere near that many players in previous or subsequent years. Apart from Downes and Dozzell it’s debatable whether the others have actually made it. Ok Folami is playing regularly in Oz but I’m not sure the others have much prospect. It could have been a case of Marcus Evans trying to force his idea of developing homegrown players on the club, even if they weren’t really up to it. It could have had a detrimental effect on the club and maybe even been a factor in our relegation. [Post edited 22 Mar 2022 15:12]
|  | | |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:21 - Mar 22 with 1632 views | itfcjoe |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:56 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
You are looking at just one club Joe - and extrapolating from there.
This is the FAs own research not mine bud. |
Ok, but if 7 players out of 20 in one squad 'make it' then how can those stats be true? The research doesn't pass the sense test. | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:23 - Mar 22 with 1610 views | itfcjoe |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:02 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
Oh and you have:
Michael Calvin, author of the book "No Hunger in Paradise: The Players. The Journey. The Dream," about how children enrolled in academies have a very small chance of succeeding as professional footballers.
The statistics are really sobering. Out of all the boys who enter an academy at the age of 9, less than half of 1% make it. Or a make a living from the game either.
The most damning statistic of all is only 180 of the 1.5 million players who are playing organised youth football in England at any one time will make it as a Premier League pro.
That's a success rate of 0.012%. |
'Organised youth football' is everything though - it's not club academies fault that players at Chantry Grasshoppers and Trimley Red Devils aren't making it | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:29 - Mar 22 with 1573 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:23 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
'Organised youth football' is everything though - it's not club academies fault that players at Chantry Grasshoppers and Trimley Red Devils aren't making it |
Joe - I refer you, again, to 'Football Talent Spotting: Are Clubs Getting It Wrong with Kids?'.
This is the FAs own research....
"...the former FA Head of Talent Identification, Richard Allen revealed that less than 0.5% of the players aged under 9 that are signed by professional teams, go all the way to play for the first team at some point in their life."
Now you, personally, may choose to look at what % of U15 or U16s get a pro-contract and, of course, this will be higher. But it still an incredibly small percentage.
You outlier season you offered is something like 25% of youth payers getting a pro-contract.
The FA were right to look at the whole in their research - if we go with your methodology of only looking at age groups that get close to U18s and ignoring other age categories will not show the whole picture - or even close to it. | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:33 - Mar 22 with 1559 views | homer_123 |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:21 - Mar 22 by itfcjoe |
Ok, but if 7 players out of 20 in one squad 'make it' then how can those stats be true? The research doesn't pass the sense test. |
With the greatest respect Joe - you are not a researcher and are using 7 people, from 1 year and age group from one club to position your assertion that the data is wrong.
If you had any understanding of how data worked - you'd understand just how silly and wrong your position on this is. Sense test - dear lord. | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:34 - Mar 22 with 1555 views | jontysnut |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 14:05 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
Don't take my word for it - plenty of research on it Joe.
"According to a research conducted by The English FA at the end of 2015 (“Football Talent Spotting: Are Clubs Getting It Wrong with Kids?”), the former FA Head of Talent Identification, Richard Allen revealed that less than 0.5% of the players aged under 9 that are signed by professional teams, go all the way to play for the first team at some point in their life."
More recently from the i
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-academy-players-figures-appear [Post edited 22 Mar 2022 14:06]
|
Yes that what told my kid at 9 and more importantly the parents! Kids from top academies will trickle down as they are released each year on the pathway and other kids join and leave. He was one of three from his year group to get a pro offer after apprenticeship and the only one to get a second season. The attrition rate is high. |  | | |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:37 - Mar 22 with 1526 views | itfcjoe |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:29 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
Joe - I refer you, again, to 'Football Talent Spotting: Are Clubs Getting It Wrong with Kids?'.
This is the FAs own research....
"...the former FA Head of Talent Identification, Richard Allen revealed that less than 0.5% of the players aged under 9 that are signed by professional teams, go all the way to play for the first team at some point in their life."
Now you, personally, may choose to look at what % of U15 or U16s get a pro-contract and, of course, this will be higher. But it still an incredibly small percentage.
You outlier season you offered is something like 25% of youth payers getting a pro-contract.
The FA were right to look at the whole in their research - if we go with your methodology of only looking at age groups that get close to U18s and ignoring other age categories will not show the whole picture - or even close to it. |
But I've also seen just how many teams there are at some lower levels - and this must include the PDC centres.
Out of our 11 scholars this season at least 8 have been with the club since they were U9s.
I think it must be to do with PDCs, anyone whose parents want to pay £50 a term and pay for some kit basically can 'sign' for a pro club but they aren't in any academy in truth.
It's simply not feasible that 0.5% of U9s are making it when clubs are playing 7 a side at that age and carrying squads of about 14 in the elite squad. If that were the case Ipswich would have one player make it every 15 years | |
| |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:42 - Mar 22 with 1487 views | itfcjoe |
| Marcelo Flores - One of the most promising youngsters on 15:33 - Mar 22 by homer_123 |
With the greatest respect Joe - you are not a researcher and are using 7 people, from 1 year and age group from one club to position your assertion that the data is wrong.
If you had any understanding of how data worked - you'd understand just how silly and wrong your position on this is. Sense test - dear lord. |
I do understand how data works, and how research works - which is why this clearly doesn't make any sense.
If the average club gives out just 1 pro contract a season, it means that for those 92 clubs to do so that it means that each club has had to release 199 players in order to do that.
There are 9 age groups in an academy from U19-U16 and then U18 - it means that over 20 players are getting released from each age group, each season for one player to make it. there aren't even 20 players in each age group.
The numbers are wrong. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
