| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now 13:25 - Jun 1 with 2831 views | STYG |
The referee in the Forest v Huddersfield playoff match denied Huddersfield at least one stone wall penalty. For me, there were two. Moss didn't seem to even bother to ask VAR for the second one.
It was his last match ever. Huddersfield fans have a proper issue with him and reckon he doesn't like them. Believe Moss is from Leeds who don't have the best relationship with Huddersfield.
Now I'd be fuming if I was their fan over the decisions in such a big game. Especially with VAR - in place for the final when it's not in the Championship. They were robbed. You can make a case that they never had a shot on target so it's their own fault, but Forest had two - 30 yard ticklers that were backpasses.
They've taken to giving bad reviews of Moss' business online, which is out of order but understandable to a degree if they feel genuinely cheated and that a Leeds fan in his last match decided to screw them over. I don't condone it but understand it.
But now images suggesting his shop has been smashed up which is completely out of order.
Baring in mind refs declare the teams they support or have an interest in, and I have said this before, it just seems madness from the EFL to appoint a ref that's down the road from one of the teams playing and supports their rivals.
At best nothing happens. At worst you get this kind of situation which is entirely foreseeable even when the ref has made what might be a genuine error.
What's even worse is that refs have long since been told their last game can't have anything riding on it because of the risk of mistakes and sentimentality.
I'm not going to link the Daily Mail piece but even Mark Clattenburg was calling out how weird it was before the match given Moss is from Leeds stating 'VAR is there as a safety net at Wembley but if anything controversial happens, it gives the critics ammunition. Moss will appreciate the trust his bosses are showing in him, but I'm not sure the refereeing body have helped themselves or their official here.'
[Post edited 1 Jun 2022 13:30]
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:28 - Jun 1 with 2532 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Is that how VAR works? I thought they reviewed and then told the ref to take a second look if they believed he had made a clear and obvious error. |  |
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:29 - Jun 1 with 2529 views | hatch |
Agreed but ultimately shouldn't VAR prevent all this. Not sure it's JM's role to 'ask VAR'. They should have corrected him.
The first was at speed and really hard to confirm one way or t'other so wasn't a 'clear and obvious mistake' but I agree the second one is dodgy and VAR should have done better. |  | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:33 - Jun 1 with 2497 views | STYG |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:29 - Jun 1 by hatch |
Agreed but ultimately shouldn't VAR prevent all this. Not sure it's JM's role to 'ask VAR'. They should have corrected him.
The first was at speed and really hard to confirm one way or t'other so wasn't a 'clear and obvious mistake' but I agree the second one is dodgy and VAR should have done better. |
I'd disagree and say you can clearly see that Colback's leg caught him. So to not overturn giving the player a yellow for diving and give a penalty seems ridiculous. A clear penalty. So what if the player went down theatrically. It was a foul which is what VAR could clearly see.
Second one was a joke. Guy went into the back of him, into his legs and forced him over.
This is where sentimentality comes in. Did Moss' VAR colleagues want to overshadow his last game by deciding he'd made a clear and obvious error. For me, no way VAR hasn't decided one of those should be given, which leads me to believe a human has decided not to rain on Moss' parade, which is why Clattenburg said refs can't have games riding on them.
So why change that to put a bloke from Leeds in charge of a rivals playoff final! | | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:42 - Jun 1 with 2426 views | Garv |
Bottom line is it's all about opinions and plenty of people will be of the opinion that neither were penalties.
The first one is a massive dive, even if there is a morsel of contact. The second one is a 50/50 where neither player is in possession or control of the ball, and you could make a case for it being a foul on the Forest man. On balance they both foul each other.
God knows about the conflict of interests re. Moss. |  |
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:45 - Jun 1 with 2392 views | STYG |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:42 - Jun 1 by Garv |
Bottom line is it's all about opinions and plenty of people will be of the opinion that neither were penalties.
The first one is a massive dive, even if there is a morsel of contact. The second one is a 50/50 where neither player is in possession or control of the ball, and you could make a case for it being a foul on the Forest man. On balance they both foul each other.
God knows about the conflict of interests re. Moss. |
That's the thing though isn't it.
Don't give him that game. Because there are always bad decisions or ones you disagree with, but you only get your business smashed up when people genuinely believe he's cheated them, which doesn't happen if the referee is from Hampshire. | | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:47 - Jun 1 with 2367 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:45 - Jun 1 by STYG |
That's the thing though isn't it.
Don't give him that game. Because there are always bad decisions or ones you disagree with, but you only get your business smashed up when people genuinely believe he's cheated them, which doesn't happen if the referee is from Hampshire. |
Was Clive Thomas from Norwich then? I thought he was Welsh! | |
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:49 - Jun 1 with 2341 views | Radlett_blue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:42 - Jun 1 by Garv |
Bottom line is it's all about opinions and plenty of people will be of the opinion that neither were penalties.
The first one is a massive dive, even if there is a morsel of contact. The second one is a 50/50 where neither player is in possession or control of the ball, and you could make a case for it being a foul on the Forest man. On balance they both foul each other.
God knows about the conflict of interests re. Moss. |
Second one looked more likely to me, but still seemed more of a "coming together" than a clear foul. I personally agree with the idea that different rules are applied in the penalty areas & I prefer a penalty kick only to be given for a blatant foul, especially with modern players going down at the slightest contact. |  |
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:51 - Jun 1 with 2328 views | EastTownBlue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:33 - Jun 1 by STYG |
I'd disagree and say you can clearly see that Colback's leg caught him. So to not overturn giving the player a yellow for diving and give a penalty seems ridiculous. A clear penalty. So what if the player went down theatrically. It was a foul which is what VAR could clearly see.
Second one was a joke. Guy went into the back of him, into his legs and forced him over.
This is where sentimentality comes in. Did Moss' VAR colleagues want to overshadow his last game by deciding he'd made a clear and obvious error. For me, no way VAR hasn't decided one of those should be given, which leads me to believe a human has decided not to rain on Moss' parade, which is why Clattenburg said refs can't have games riding on them.
So why change that to put a bloke from Leeds in charge of a rivals playoff final! |
Probably due to Moss being a Sunderland supporter. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 13:51]
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:53 - Jun 1 with 2313 views | HighgateBlue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:45 - Jun 1 by STYG |
That's the thing though isn't it.
Don't give him that game. Because there are always bad decisions or ones you disagree with, but you only get your business smashed up when people genuinely believe he's cheated them, which doesn't happen if the referee is from Hampshire. |
He's either professionally capable of deciding games based on what he sees, rather than some supposed prejudices, or he's not. If he's not, don't give him the game. If he is, do.
He's from Sunderland, and played for their youth team. Yes, he then went to Uni in Leeds and lived there, but why on earth should that disqualify him from refereeing a Huddersfield game?
If he's made mistakes, there's no reason to think that it's conspiracy rather than cock up. Human error is always going to happen. As for VAR, I think most of us hate it for various reasons, but I don't see why a professional referee shouldn't be allowed to just do his job, whether he's about to retire or not. |  | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:53 - Jun 1 with 2310 views | STYG |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:51 - Jun 1 by EastTownBlue |
Probably due to Moss being a Sunderland supporter. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 13:51]
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Now based in Leeds and, according to Huddersfield fans (I really can't be bothered to determine if accurate or mad conspiracy theory), Moss has attended Leeds games and has 'adopted' them as well as having close friends / family members that are Leeds season ticket holders. May well be bull.
Wonder if he's reffed Leeds since moving there? Presume there's a site somewhere for refs too these days! | | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 14:03 - Jun 1 with 2263 views | Radlett_blue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:53 - Jun 1 by HighgateBlue |
He's either professionally capable of deciding games based on what he sees, rather than some supposed prejudices, or he's not. If he's not, don't give him the game. If he is, do.
He's from Sunderland, and played for their youth team. Yes, he then went to Uni in Leeds and lived there, but why on earth should that disqualify him from refereeing a Huddersfield game?
If he's made mistakes, there's no reason to think that it's conspiracy rather than cock up. Human error is always going to happen. As for VAR, I think most of us hate it for various reasons, but I don't see why a professional referee shouldn't be allowed to just do his job, whether he's about to retire or not. |
Refs have to declare any club "affiliations" when the reach pro level. e.g. Graham Poll was a QPR fan so he never reffed their games. Taking it to tenuous extremes is a bad idea & only encourages the idea that refs are biased when generally they are 99% straight.
There was often controversy about Mike Dean (surprise, surprise) refereeing Liverpool because he hailed from the Wirrall, but he was a Tranmere supporter. | |
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 14:08 - Jun 1 with 2232 views | ParisBlue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:47 - Jun 1 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Was Clive Thomas from Norwich then? I thought he was Welsh! |
From his Wikipedia
Thomas's original ambition was to be a professional footballer. He achieved a place on the ground staff at Norwich City, playing as an inside forward. However an ankle injury forced him to give up playing. He was then persuaded to take up refereeing at the age of sixteen.
And then this:
Writing in his autobiography “By the Book” in 1984, Thomas stated:
“Robson first made a bad impression on me at a semi-final replay at Chelsea in 1975. I took the names of four Ipswich players — Burley, Hamilton, Beattie and Wark — as they were losing to West Ham. After the match, during which I had disallowed a goal, Robson stated to the press: ‘The referee was in absolutely no position to give an offside decision. The linesman was in a perfect position and he signalled it was a goal — there were several FA administrators at the game and I challenged them to take action against the referee. If they don’t, they are failing in their duty to professional soccer.’
“Such an outburst by a manager does no good to the game. I would agree with Robson that the administrators failed to do their duty — but only by not taking a grip of him and giving him a warning. A member of the appeals committee that heard the players’ case was Mr Bert Millichip, chairman of the FA, who appointed Robson to his England post. I wonder whether they said even a single word to Robson”.
Thomas also stated that from then on Ipswich Town captain, Mick Mills, made a point of never shaking Thomas’ hand again, even during pre-match toss ups. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 14:15]
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 14:45 - Jun 1 with 2148 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 14:08 - Jun 1 by ParisBlue |
From his Wikipedia
Thomas's original ambition was to be a professional footballer. He achieved a place on the ground staff at Norwich City, playing as an inside forward. However an ankle injury forced him to give up playing. He was then persuaded to take up refereeing at the age of sixteen.
And then this:
Writing in his autobiography “By the Book” in 1984, Thomas stated:
“Robson first made a bad impression on me at a semi-final replay at Chelsea in 1975. I took the names of four Ipswich players — Burley, Hamilton, Beattie and Wark — as they were losing to West Ham. After the match, during which I had disallowed a goal, Robson stated to the press: ‘The referee was in absolutely no position to give an offside decision. The linesman was in a perfect position and he signalled it was a goal — there were several FA administrators at the game and I challenged them to take action against the referee. If they don’t, they are failing in their duty to professional soccer.’
“Such an outburst by a manager does no good to the game. I would agree with Robson that the administrators failed to do their duty — but only by not taking a grip of him and giving him a warning. A member of the appeals committee that heard the players’ case was Mr Bert Millichip, chairman of the FA, who appointed Robson to his England post. I wonder whether they said even a single word to Robson”.
Thomas also stated that from then on Ipswich Town captain, Mick Mills, made a point of never shaking Thomas’ hand again, even during pre-match toss ups. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 14:15]
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I was well aware of his open hatred of Town. I was just unaware of his association with Norwich! I assume he was not open about his hatred for Town until after he had retired, either. Perhaps I, inadvertently, reinforced the point I was trying to argue against! | |
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:04 - Jun 1 with 2072 views | PhilTWTD |
There were similar claims of a conflict of interest regarding a referee about Mark Halsey refereeing our first play-off at Bolton, when we had a blatant penalty turned down. He was down as based at Welwyn Garden City at the time but it was suggested - although not confirmed - had already moved to Bolton. |  | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:11 - Jun 1 with 2044 views | STYG |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:04 - Jun 1 by PhilTWTD |
There were similar claims of a conflict of interest regarding a referee about Mark Halsey refereeing our first play-off at Bolton, when we had a blatant penalty turned down. He was down as based at Welwyn Garden City at the time but it was suggested - although not confirmed - had already moved to Bolton. |
Out of interest, have we ever had any refs that were biased towards us?
Clive Thomas hated us. Norwich connections and sounded like a very bitter man with Robson and Mills.
Halsey - I didn't know this but that's absolutely ridiculous if he failed to let the authorities know. Where were they sending his post!
Jeff Winter admitted in his book being intimidated by Birmingham that night and seemed to give them everything that night.
It may be that Barry Knight hated Allardyce and Alf Buskh grew up a Town fan, but I like to think Knight called everything correctly (all three pens, all fifty seven bookings and the red cards - Whitlow possibly was harsh as wasn't the last man but was a clear deliberate attempt consistent with their instructions) and Buskh gave us loads of pens as we were very attacking and Kiwomya just kept getting brought down.
Where's our story of a ref who loved us and gave us everything! | | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:20 - Jun 1 with 1992 views | PhilTWTD |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:11 - Jun 1 by STYG |
Out of interest, have we ever had any refs that were biased towards us?
Clive Thomas hated us. Norwich connections and sounded like a very bitter man with Robson and Mills.
Halsey - I didn't know this but that's absolutely ridiculous if he failed to let the authorities know. Where were they sending his post!
Jeff Winter admitted in his book being intimidated by Birmingham that night and seemed to give them everything that night.
It may be that Barry Knight hated Allardyce and Alf Buskh grew up a Town fan, but I like to think Knight called everything correctly (all three pens, all fifty seven bookings and the red cards - Whitlow possibly was harsh as wasn't the last man but was a clear deliberate attempt consistent with their instructions) and Buskh gave us loads of pens as we were very attacking and Kiwomya just kept getting brought down.
Where's our story of a ref who loved us and gave us everything! |
I'm sure I can remember writing about a ref a couple of seasons ago where we'd won every game he'd taken charge of. I'll try and remember who it was.
On the geographical appointment aspect, I remember a few years ago Fred Graham from Stanford-le-Hope was named for our home game against West Ham. Stanford, where my mum was from incidentally, is prime West Ham territory so if they've have got a couple of wobbly penalties then that would have looked a bit suss. As it was we won 5-1.
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:22 - Jun 1 with 1969 views | HighgateBlue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 14:03 - Jun 1 by Radlett_blue |
Refs have to declare any club "affiliations" when the reach pro level. e.g. Graham Poll was a QPR fan so he never reffed their games. Taking it to tenuous extremes is a bad idea & only encourages the idea that refs are biased when generally they are 99% straight.
There was often controversy about Mike Dean (surprise, surprise) refereeing Liverpool because he hailed from the Wirrall, but he was a Tranmere supporter. |
Yes, I certainly see the sense in declaring an affiliation. It's important that there's not an appearance of bias, separately from the possibility of actual bias. But just living in a different town in the same ceremonial county as a team you're refereeing can't in itself be considered a problem. | | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:25 - Jun 1 with 1952 views | SitfcB |
Rubbish ref, very unfit. Should never have been given that game. |  |
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 16:01 - Jun 1 with 1882 views | EastTownBlue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:04 - Jun 1 by PhilTWTD |
There were similar claims of a conflict of interest regarding a referee about Mark Halsey refereeing our first play-off at Bolton, when we had a blatant penalty turned down. He was down as based at Welwyn Garden City at the time but it was suggested - although not confirmed - had already moved to Bolton. |
He claims he moved up there having met his future wife during 2001 who also worked for the club. Regardless it was a poor decision and we had a decent shout for a penalty during the first half of the second leg as well. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 16:01]
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 16:08 - Jun 1 with 1831 views | itfcjoe |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 15:20 - Jun 1 by PhilTWTD |
I'm sure I can remember writing about a ref a couple of seasons ago where we'd won every game he'd taken charge of. I'll try and remember who it was.
On the geographical appointment aspect, I remember a few years ago Fred Graham from Stanford-le-Hope was named for our home game against West Ham. Stanford, where my mum was from incidentally, is prime West Ham territory so if they've have got a couple of wobbly penalties then that would have looked a bit suss. As it was we won 5-1.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I remember Andy D'Urso always being billed as from 'Essex'. When we played Col U and the crowd were chanting 'Essex, Essex, Essex' he had been billed for the night as Billericay |  |
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 16:30 - Jun 1 with 1774 views | ellaandred |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:47 - Jun 1 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Was Clive Thomas from Norwich then? I thought he was Welsh! |
Thomas was on the books at Norwich. | | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 17:22 - Jun 1 with 1687 views | Veggie |
I wasn’t aware that he’d left Culture Club and become a referee |  | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 18:00 - Jun 1 with 1607 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 13:28 - Jun 1 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Is that how VAR works? I thought they reviewed and then told the ref to take a second look if they believed he had made a clear and obvious error. |
It’s both, I think. The VAR is constantly monitoring the game for clear and obvious errors in the 4 main match-changing areas of goals, pens, straight red cards and mistaken identity. They can flag any obvious errors to the ref. Or the ref can ask the VAR to check one of his decisions.
Only the ref can make a decision though and only the ref can ask for a VAR review. Players, and presumably managers/coaches, can be give a yellow for over aggressively asking for the VAR to get involved (I wish that was the case with players waving imaginary cards in the ref’s face).
I thought at least one of Huddersfield’s pen claims was as blatant as you’ll see. Was very surprised both the ref and the VAR let it go.
PS. Link to VAR use - https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321
PPS. No matter how shoite the ref, targeting him and his interests after the game is bang out of order. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 18:02]
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| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 18:44 - Jun 1 with 1468 views | ellaandred |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 14:03 - Jun 1 by Radlett_blue |
Refs have to declare any club "affiliations" when the reach pro level. e.g. Graham Poll was a QPR fan so he never reffed their games. Taking it to tenuous extremes is a bad idea & only encourages the idea that refs are biased when generally they are 99% straight.
There was often controversy about Mike Dean (surprise, surprise) refereeing Liverpool because he hailed from the Wirrall, but he was a Tranmere supporter. |
They (FA & PL) are more stringent now.
However, you always had to declare 'loyalties'
Not sure who checked these, as I declared I was an Ipswich Town fan and I got sent to Carrow Road! | | | |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 22:28 - Jun 1 with 1225 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This whole Jon Moss thing is getting a bit out of hand now on 18:44 - Jun 1 by ellaandred |
They (FA & PL) are more stringent now.
However, you always had to declare 'loyalties'
Not sure who checked these, as I declared I was an Ipswich Town fan and I got sent to Carrow Road! |
For a nodge match? Did you fulfil it or suggest they rearranged? If you fulfilled it, are you confident you were completely unbiased? | |
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