| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night 09:08 - Nov 18 with 7758 views | bluelagos |
Can anyone up on the arguments explain a bit more please.
One problem with a format like QT is those who speak in the audience don't get more than a few seconds and what they say doesn't get explored/challenged/fact checked.
From the outside it does have the feel of old fashioned ninbyism but am open to persuasion...
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:19 - Nov 24 with 1270 views | StokieBlue |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:08 - Nov 24 by ronnyd |
How about one across the Orwell estuary as well.
Save a long drive round too. [Post edited 24 Nov 2022 11:09]
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This is the one which should have been built:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severn_Barrage
Would have provided 5% of the UK power needs.
SB |  | | |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:47 - Nov 24 with 1229 views | EdwardStone |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:15 - Nov 24 by StokieBlue |
Firstly, I totally agree we should be going heavy on renewables, in fact I'd be delighted to see offshore wind farms from Suffolk to Yorkshire all along the coast designed and built in the UK but unfortunately the political will doesn't seem to be there.
Nuclear power for baseline use isn't really a fallacy.
The whole point of baseline supply is that it's either on or off and that it can become on very quickly if the grid needs balancing (ie. there is a shortage of electricity due to environmental factors with renewables or high usage). You equate this to wind power but they are totally different things with different applications. Wind power is not baseline energy, as it stands that is only coal, gas or nuclear. Conceivable you could go molten salt which would be superb but directed energy solar plants aren't going to be very efficient in the UK.
I didn't discuss the cleanness of nuclear energy or the reactor type which should ideally be 4th generation so that the nuclear waste produced is far smaller in both quantity and radioactivity. Your points are valid though and should be discussed both generally and in the specifics of the Sizewell project.
Can you propose another method of generating baseline electricity almost instantly when it's required to balance the grid?
Your last line, whilst being something I would agree with in the general case is a strawman unless you have evidences of Tories taking backhanders (which could definitely exist).
SB |
I have been talking to someone involved in the offshore generation of hydrogen, easily piped ashore and then stored for later use.
Early days but some promising results so far.
I can't help feeling that domestic battery storage will become a huge part of the medium term solution.... coupled with micro generation via renewables it gets away from the massive giantism of new Nuclear plants..... without fail they arrive late, over budget and perform less well than expected.
It really is a triumph of hope over experience |  | | |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 12:07 - Nov 24 with 1206 views | StokieBlue |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:47 - Nov 24 by EdwardStone |
I have been talking to someone involved in the offshore generation of hydrogen, easily piped ashore and then stored for later use.
Early days but some promising results so far.
I can't help feeling that domestic battery storage will become a huge part of the medium term solution.... coupled with micro generation via renewables it gets away from the massive giantism of new Nuclear plants..... without fail they arrive late, over budget and perform less well than expected.
It really is a triumph of hope over experience |
Hydrogen is certainly something that could have a place in the future, things like cargo ships and trucks are ideal for hydrogen, however it's quite energy intensive to generate (despite being the most abundant element in the universe) as it's usually generated by splitting sea water. The question here is how to do generate that energy in the first place?
Both domestic batteries and larger battery storage will have a place but they come with their own issues such as lithium supply (China has cornered the market at the moment until extraction from sea water is perfected) and self-life - batteries don't tend to last very long.
Micro-generation via renewables is excellent but doesn't meet baseline power requirements, it's just another good thing to have on top of everything else.
With nuclear, over the longer term we are likely to start making use of these:
https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
They would be dotted around outside towns to balance to power supply. The issue is that the grid is damaged if there isn't enough energy going through it at any one time hence the need for baseline power.
In the end we are going to need a mix of a lot of different technologies to meet our energy needs in a carbon-free way.
SB [Post edited 24 Nov 2022 12:07]
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 13:12 - Nov 24 with 1159 views | EdwardStone |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 12:07 - Nov 24 by StokieBlue |
Hydrogen is certainly something that could have a place in the future, things like cargo ships and trucks are ideal for hydrogen, however it's quite energy intensive to generate (despite being the most abundant element in the universe) as it's usually generated by splitting sea water. The question here is how to do generate that energy in the first place?
Both domestic batteries and larger battery storage will have a place but they come with their own issues such as lithium supply (China has cornered the market at the moment until extraction from sea water is perfected) and self-life - batteries don't tend to last very long.
Micro-generation via renewables is excellent but doesn't meet baseline power requirements, it's just another good thing to have on top of everything else.
With nuclear, over the longer term we are likely to start making use of these:
https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
They would be dotted around outside towns to balance to power supply. The issue is that the grid is damaged if there isn't enough energy going through it at any one time hence the need for baseline power.
In the end we are going to need a mix of a lot of different technologies to meet our energy needs in a carbon-free way.
SB [Post edited 24 Nov 2022 12:07]
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Thanks for your usual well thought through and erudite reply. I just find it irresistable to poke the wasps nest with a stick every time Nuclear is touted as a simple answer to our energy supply.
Clearly it is far more involved than that, there is rarely a simplex solution to a complex problem.
Specifically the Hydrogen project I mentioned will be using offshore wind turbines to make hydrogen gas which will then be piped ashore.
And, as you say, battery technology still has a long way to go, but domestic/small scale storage has a part in the matrix I believe.
A local dairy farm had a pilot project of 2x 20 foot shipping containers that had been modified to be an autonomous micro power station, a methane digester and store in one container and a gererator and battery pack in the other. I believe it made the farm totally self-sufficient for electricity.
The Guardian ran an article a couple of days ago about tidal turbines that life offshore and can potentially make a huge and reliable difference.
All of these, to my mind, deserve far more nurturing and funding than just another eye-wateringly expensive massive nuclear power station.
Every pound our Govt. thows at nuclear is a slap in the face for renewables and sustainability [Post edited 24 Nov 2022 13:27]
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 18:17 - Nov 24 with 1086 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:47 - Nov 24 by EdwardStone |
I have been talking to someone involved in the offshore generation of hydrogen, easily piped ashore and then stored for later use.
Early days but some promising results so far.
I can't help feeling that domestic battery storage will become a huge part of the medium term solution.... coupled with micro generation via renewables it gets away from the massive giantism of new Nuclear plants..... without fail they arrive late, over budget and perform less well than expected.
It really is a triumph of hope over experience |
I think I can guess who that might be. If so then they know their onions. |  |
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 21:07 - Nov 24 with 1034 views | WeWereZombies |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 13:12 - Nov 24 by EdwardStone |
Thanks for your usual well thought through and erudite reply. I just find it irresistable to poke the wasps nest with a stick every time Nuclear is touted as a simple answer to our energy supply.
Clearly it is far more involved than that, there is rarely a simplex solution to a complex problem.
Specifically the Hydrogen project I mentioned will be using offshore wind turbines to make hydrogen gas which will then be piped ashore.
And, as you say, battery technology still has a long way to go, but domestic/small scale storage has a part in the matrix I believe.
A local dairy farm had a pilot project of 2x 20 foot shipping containers that had been modified to be an autonomous micro power station, a methane digester and store in one container and a gererator and battery pack in the other. I believe it made the farm totally self-sufficient for electricity.
The Guardian ran an article a couple of days ago about tidal turbines that life offshore and can potentially make a huge and reliable difference.
All of these, to my mind, deserve far more nurturing and funding than just another eye-wateringly expensive massive nuclear power station.
Every pound our Govt. thows at nuclear is a slap in the face for renewables and sustainability [Post edited 24 Nov 2022 13:27]
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Here is a link to that Guardian article, if progress continues on this technology then it really could throw nuclear out of the water (pun intended) :
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/23/tidal-stream-energy-costs-eb |  |
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 08:40 - Nov 25 with 976 views | itfcjoe |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:47 - Nov 24 by EdwardStone |
I have been talking to someone involved in the offshore generation of hydrogen, easily piped ashore and then stored for later use.
Early days but some promising results so far.
I can't help feeling that domestic battery storage will become a huge part of the medium term solution.... coupled with micro generation via renewables it gets away from the massive giantism of new Nuclear plants..... without fail they arrive late, over budget and perform less well than expected.
It really is a triumph of hope over experience |
DOmestic batteries are incredibly good, I have 15 solar panels and an 8.2kwh battery and through the end of the summer (when installed) I was getting <5% of my electricity from the grid.
Currently because of the recent cloudy weather through November I've had approx 25% from the grid.
I had the panels installed in middle of September and since then 85% of electricity used has come direct from the panels, or from the battery charged by the panels. |  |
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 09:40 - Nov 25 with 938 views | EdwardStone |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 08:40 - Nov 25 by itfcjoe |
DOmestic batteries are incredibly good, I have 15 solar panels and an 8.2kwh battery and through the end of the summer (when installed) I was getting <5% of my electricity from the grid.
Currently because of the recent cloudy weather through November I've had approx 25% from the grid.
I had the panels installed in middle of September and since then 85% of electricity used has come direct from the panels, or from the battery charged by the panels. |
This is good news Joe, many thanks for the update.
Are these figures matching or exceeding your hopes/expectations? | | | |
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 10:10 - Nov 25 with 917 views | Meadowlark |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:15 - Nov 24 by StokieBlue |
Firstly, I totally agree we should be going heavy on renewables, in fact I'd be delighted to see offshore wind farms from Suffolk to Yorkshire all along the coast designed and built in the UK but unfortunately the political will doesn't seem to be there.
Nuclear power for baseline use isn't really a fallacy.
The whole point of baseline supply is that it's either on or off and that it can become on very quickly if the grid needs balancing (ie. there is a shortage of electricity due to environmental factors with renewables or high usage). You equate this to wind power but they are totally different things with different applications. Wind power is not baseline energy, as it stands that is only coal, gas or nuclear. Conceivable you could go molten salt which would be superb but directed energy solar plants aren't going to be very efficient in the UK.
I didn't discuss the cleanness of nuclear energy or the reactor type which should ideally be 4th generation so that the nuclear waste produced is far smaller in both quantity and radioactivity. Your points are valid though and should be discussed both generally and in the specifics of the Sizewell project.
Can you propose another method of generating baseline electricity almost instantly when it's required to balance the grid?
Your last line, whilst being something I would agree with in the general case is a strawman unless you have evidences of Tories taking backhanders (which could definitely exist).
SB |
A measured response, but dare I say that you have been taken in by the"baseline" propaganda? I understand the theory but it is a necessary argument to provide the nuclear industry with one of its few remaining foundations. All the others have crumbled.
I won't go into details, but Google "Baseline fallacy " to read the counter arguments.
I didn't even mention Suffolk's disappearing coastline A beach-side house in Thorpeness had to be bulldozed last month due to the encroaching North Sea. Is this a sensible place for a nuclear site?
They are advertising for armed security guards to patrol the site. Both during construction and after. Is this a good way to provide energy for our future. No armed guards required for wind farms or solar installations.
They have already destroyed an ancient woodland with no concern for the environment or correct procedures.
The government is ploughing millions of pounds into trying to persude businesses to back this project. ie bribes. But still no-one with any sense is investing in it.
We will subsidise this through bills and taxes while bailing out the French government owned EDF, while wind power becomes cheaper and cheaper to produce.
It is utter madness. |  | | |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 10:37 - Nov 25 with 898 views | itfcjoe |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 09:40 - Nov 25 by EdwardStone |
This is good news Joe, many thanks for the update.
Are these figures matching or exceeding your hopes/expectations? |
Exceeding really, I wasn't sure what to expect and thought the battery would be good and worthwhile but it is an absolute game changer to just normal solar panels where you can only benefit if uding when sunny.
We also are able to charge the battery from the grid at cheaper rates as well so saving on that side - but I have recommended them to lots of people - our payback will end up being between 3-4 years on them at worst | |
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 10:50 - Nov 25 with 883 views | EdwardStone |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 10:37 - Nov 25 by itfcjoe |
Exceeding really, I wasn't sure what to expect and thought the battery would be good and worthwhile but it is an absolute game changer to just normal solar panels where you can only benefit if uding when sunny.
We also are able to charge the battery from the grid at cheaper rates as well so saving on that side - but I have recommended them to lots of people - our payback will end up being between 3-4 years on them at worst |
Excellent news.... I think I shall be investing in something very similar in the New Year
As you say, the batteries are the key. It could really help the grid if most houses were able to store a significant amout of electricity and top up at off-peak cheapie rates. And it all dove-tails nicely with owning an electric car. | | | |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 10:54 - Nov 25 with 882 views | unstableblue |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 16:01 - Nov 18 by GeoffSentence |
The other thing , is that sizewell C will require vast amounts of fresh water. In the driest part of the country. Just this is likely to be devastating to the local environment unless they can come up with some solution to overcome this. So far no such solution is in evidence. |
Are you talking about for the construction phase?? |  |
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| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 11:01 - Nov 25 with 864 views | itfcjoe |
| A lot of opposition to Sizewell C on QT last night on 10:50 - Nov 25 by EdwardStone |
Excellent news.... I think I shall be investing in something very similar in the New Year
As you say, the batteries are the key. It could really help the grid if most houses were able to store a significant amout of electricity and top up at off-peak cheapie rates. And it all dove-tails nicely with owning an electric car. |
Without the batteries they are nice but 10-15 year payback at best - the battery is an absolute game changer for them. | |
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