| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 07:59 - Jan 30 with 1021 views | Darth_Koont |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 07:54 - Jan 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Swerve again. I’ll leave it there as you’re unable to answer the question for fear of having your past words thrown back at you. Flip flop. |
Gmpf.
Go on then, I’ll play. What are these past words you’re going to throw back at me? |  |
|  |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 09:06 - Jan 30 with 899 views | itfcjoe |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 07:22 - Jan 30 by GlasgowBlue |
More abuse.
And once again swerved the question. Should trans women have all of the same rights as women born with a virgina and be treated no differently?
I’m pretty certain that when two prominent posters on here raised concerns about outliers in “prison inmate safety, elite sports or whatever” yiu and a few other jumped all over them, accusing them of being transphobic.
For all of his faults at least Callis would have the courage of his convictions. [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 7:41]
|
This is the main point people have argued with - that blanketly saying 'Trans women are women' and that they have free access to all women's spaces etc will lead to bad actors in the field; and those who see it as an opportunity to game the system for their own ends.
A prison has the time and expertise to determine if people are a risk, but a refuge centre wouldn't do so; and if they refused access to a transwomen they'd end up plastered all over social media, the TRAs online hounding them, cancelling anyone who has funded them and trying to drive them into shutting down. |  |
| |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 09:43 - Jan 30 with 841 views | Darth_Koont |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 09:06 - Jan 30 by itfcjoe |
This is the main point people have argued with - that blanketly saying 'Trans women are women' and that they have free access to all women's spaces etc will lead to bad actors in the field; and those who see it as an opportunity to game the system for their own ends.
A prison has the time and expertise to determine if people are a risk, but a refuge centre wouldn't do so; and if they refused access to a transwomen they'd end up plastered all over social media, the TRAs online hounding them, cancelling anyone who has funded them and trying to drive them into shutting down. |
No-one is seriously saying that there aren’t outliers and extreme situations that need to be addressed on a case by case basis. And crucially by those who have an overall responsibility and actual insight, not by opportunist politicians, Twitter or GB News who want to use the exception to make the rule and thus discriminate against the trans community.
You’re one of the worst culprits, effectively saying “transwomen aren’t women because look at this extreme here.”
But quite rightly transwomen are women from an equality perspective. And it’s only in a small percentage of fairly specific situations where that doesn’t determine how transwomen are treated as a default.
Stop pretending otherwise and please stop justifying transphobia. | |
| |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 09:53 - Jan 30 with 805 views | DJR |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 09:06 - Jan 30 by itfcjoe |
This is the main point people have argued with - that blanketly saying 'Trans women are women' and that they have free access to all women's spaces etc will lead to bad actors in the field; and those who see it as an opportunity to game the system for their own ends.
A prison has the time and expertise to determine if people are a risk, but a refuge centre wouldn't do so; and if they refused access to a transwomen they'd end up plastered all over social media, the TRAs online hounding them, cancelling anyone who has funded them and trying to drive them into shutting down. |
But you're arguing against the Equality Act 2010, a progressive piece of UK-wide legislation which has been the law for 13 years and was the one of the last measures of the last Labour government.
The following from the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, the body which polices the Equality Act 2010, explains the legislation in a rational way, as opposed to the the irrational debate that is now taking place. You will note towards the end, the various exceptions, including for competitive sport and single sex spaces.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-d
Of course, the Tories don't believe in diversity, so I don't believe they really support equalities legislation, and they certainly now wouldn't include gender reassignment as a protected characteristic.
Indeed, in the current climate, I don't believe the Gender Recognition Act 2004 could be enacted in England, if it weren't already the law.
For what it is worth there are 15 trans prisoners in Scotland out of a prison population of 7,000. And it is interesting to note that the section 35 order which put the recent Scottish gender recognition legislation on hold contained no reference to prisons as a reason for objecting to the legislation.
But if every time a trans prisoner in Scotland emerges, they become headline news, it all becomes a political football designed, in my view, to undermine the SNP, even though Scottish Labour and even some Tories supported the legislation.
And if there are 15 trans prisoners in Scotland, there must be many more in England but there are no newspaper headlines about them, which just goes to prove that the matter is being stirred up to denigrate the SNP. |  | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 10:27 - Jan 30 with 758 views | itfcjoe |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 09:53 - Jan 30 by DJR |
But you're arguing against the Equality Act 2010, a progressive piece of UK-wide legislation which has been the law for 13 years and was the one of the last measures of the last Labour government.
The following from the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, the body which polices the Equality Act 2010, explains the legislation in a rational way, as opposed to the the irrational debate that is now taking place. You will note towards the end, the various exceptions, including for competitive sport and single sex spaces.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-d
Of course, the Tories don't believe in diversity, so I don't believe they really support equalities legislation, and they certainly now wouldn't include gender reassignment as a protected characteristic.
Indeed, in the current climate, I don't believe the Gender Recognition Act 2004 could be enacted in England, if it weren't already the law.
For what it is worth there are 15 trans prisoners in Scotland out of a prison population of 7,000. And it is interesting to note that the section 35 order which put the recent Scottish gender recognition legislation on hold contained no reference to prisons as a reason for objecting to the legislation.
But if every time a trans prisoner in Scotland emerges, they become headline news, it all becomes a political football designed, in my view, to undermine the SNP, even though Scottish Labour and even some Tories supported the legislation.
And if there are 15 trans prisoners in Scotland, there must be many more in England but there are no newspaper headlines about them, which just goes to prove that the matter is being stirred up to denigrate the SNP. |
I don't think the final paragraph is true, Scotland has become the eye of the storm in this debate but I don't think it is just purely to be anti-SNP it is purely because the matter is further advanced there and coming up against it's inevitable problems - but guess that's neither here nor there for the debate.
I don't really see the issue with arguing against a legislation, I'm sure plenty of people argue against all different types of legislation every day (e.g. the drag laws on this very board quite frequently). I just personally find the extreme cases to be damaging - and I think they damage both people who are actively in the debate - they make life harder for both women and transgender people - and with the debate so toxic with so little (or maybe even zero) room for compromise I don't see where it goes from here. | |
| |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 10:44 - Jan 30 with 740 views | DJR |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 10:27 - Jan 30 by itfcjoe |
I don't think the final paragraph is true, Scotland has become the eye of the storm in this debate but I don't think it is just purely to be anti-SNP it is purely because the matter is further advanced there and coming up against it's inevitable problems - but guess that's neither here nor there for the debate.
I don't really see the issue with arguing against a legislation, I'm sure plenty of people argue against all different types of legislation every day (e.g. the drag laws on this very board quite frequently). I just personally find the extreme cases to be damaging - and I think they damage both people who are actively in the debate - they make life harder for both women and transgender people - and with the debate so toxic with so little (or maybe even zero) room for compromise I don't see where it goes from here. |
I'm happy to agree to disagree on what you say in the first paragraph, not least because trans people have rights irrespective of whether they have a gender recognition certificate with the result that the recent Scottish legislation has no bearing on this.
And of course you are entitled to oppose the legislation. The problem it seems to me is that having conferred rights on a particular group (trans people), it is rather difficult to take away some of those rights, both as a matter of principle and probably also because humans rights legislation {which has nothing to do with the EU) may have an impact. After all, it was the 2002 Goodwin v United Kingdom ruling by the European Court of Human Rights which resulted in parliament passing the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to allow people to apply to change their legal gender.
To take a parallel example, I don't suppose it would go down well if gay people were prevented from marrying, have been allowed to do so by the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013. | | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 10:54 - Jan 30 with 716 views | Darth_Koont |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 10:27 - Jan 30 by itfcjoe |
I don't think the final paragraph is true, Scotland has become the eye of the storm in this debate but I don't think it is just purely to be anti-SNP it is purely because the matter is further advanced there and coming up against it's inevitable problems - but guess that's neither here nor there for the debate.
I don't really see the issue with arguing against a legislation, I'm sure plenty of people argue against all different types of legislation every day (e.g. the drag laws on this very board quite frequently). I just personally find the extreme cases to be damaging - and I think they damage both people who are actively in the debate - they make life harder for both women and transgender people - and with the debate so toxic with so little (or maybe even zero) room for compromise I don't see where it goes from here. |
Sorry but that’s a load of disingenuous yet self-righteous piffle.
From day one on here, you’ve actively pushed the extreme cases to justify the overall rejection of trans rights. And yes, we know these examples damage the “debate” but that’s all part of the plan if you just don’t agree that transwomen are women. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
