| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:03 - Jan 26 with 2062 views | giant_stow |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:01 - Jan 26 by DanTheMan |
Legally it's not rape under UK law, unfortunately. I believe it comes under "Assault by penetration". |
thanks, didn't know that. most odd.
Now I think of it, there was another similar case recently where a woman overpowered a man and forced him to have sex (he couldn;t help what happened to himself, to make that possible, but said no)- so that wouldn't be rape either then. bizarre [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 14:05]
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:06 - Jan 26 with 2051 views | GeoffSentence |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 13:23 - Jan 26 by Bluefields |
Hopefully they will serve their time as a rapist with all the privileges that crime normally brings. |
You have to wonder what their motivation for changing gender was given
"Bryson decided to transition from a man to a woman while awaiting trial." |  |
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:09 - Jan 26 with 2039 views | Parky |
Communicado official, 10 pages, here we go. |  | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:18 - Jan 26 with 2018 views | blueasfook |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 13:27 - Jan 26 by GlasgowBlue |
OK. I have no sleep loss over whatever punishment the 'lags' dish out to rapists and paedos who are in prison. However, what prison does this offender serve their time in?
Put her in a women's prison and she is a clear danger to other women. Put her in a men's prison and if she is fully transitioned then they are in very grave danger of being passed about by other inmates for their own sexual gratification.
Does this case make a farce of recent legislation? [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:38]
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Maybe new prison wings are needed? Transexual men's wing for women transitioning to men (in a men's prison), and a transexual woman's wing for men transitioning to women (in a woman's prison).
That would be how I would solve it. |  |
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:22 - Jan 26 with 1996 views | BloomBlue |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:01 - Jan 26 by DanTheMan |
Legally it's not rape under UK law, unfortunately. I believe it comes under "Assault by penetration". |
Is that correct? I thought a female may be guilty of rape if they assist a male perpetrator in an attack, hence a female can be charge with rape in that situation.
Which is (technically) strange as a woman cannot be charged with rape if they force a man to penatrate them without the male's consent |  | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:24 - Jan 26 with 1988 views | DanTheMan |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:22 - Jan 26 by BloomBlue |
Is that correct? I thought a female may be guilty of rape if they assist a male perpetrator in an attack, hence a female can be charge with rape in that situation.
Which is (technically) strange as a woman cannot be charged with rape if they force a man to penatrate them without the male's consent |
I think you're right, there is something like that if a woman assists someone else who is using their penis to penetrate another person but honestly, I can't recall if that counts as them getting charged with rape or if it's counted as an accessory or something. |  |
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:27 - Jan 26 with 1979 views | DJR |
The following from Wikipedia suggests that the debate in the Nordic countries hasn't become fixated with prisons and the like, and that the various women's movements are fully supportive of transgender rights.
"The Nordic model approach to transgender rights emphasizes the human rights of transgender people and is based on legal equality and self-identification, which has been adopted in countries such as Denmark, Greenland, Norway and Iceland. In 2014, the Danish Parliament voted 59—52 to remove the requirement of a mental disorder diagnosis and surgery with irreversible sterilization for transgender people who wish to change their legal gender. A similar act was adopted in Greenland in 2016. In Norway the Gender Recognition Act, that introduced self-identification, was introduced by the Conservative-led government of Erna Solberg and adopted in 2016. The act received widespread support from most political parties, the LGBTIQ+ rights movement and the feminist movement, including the Norwegian Association for Women's Rights. Transgender people are also protected against discrimination and hate speech under discrimination and criminal law. Iceland adopted the Gender Autonomy Act that introduced self-identification and a third legal gender option in 2019, which received widespread support, including from the Icelandic Women's Rights Association. The women's rights movement in the Nordic countries strongly supports transgender rights. In 2021 the Icelandic Women's Rights Association in cooperation with the International Alliance of Women organized a forum on how the women's movement could counter "anti-trans voices." [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 14:29]
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:31 - Jan 26 with 1952 views | HARRY10 |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 13:27 - Jan 26 by GlasgowBlue |
OK. I have no sleep loss over whatever punishment the 'lags' dish out to rapists and paedos who are in prison. However, what prison does this offender serve their time in?
Put her in a women's prison and she is a clear danger to other women. Put her in a men's prison and if she is fully transitioned then they are in very grave danger of being passed about by other inmates for their own sexual gratification.
Does this case make a farce of recent legislation? [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:38]
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You appear to have little knowledge of the prison system. Sex offendesr and police officers will not only opt for Rule 43 segregation, but will often be put on it for their safety. But mostly to save the prison staff the hassle of dealing with any consequent problems
The idea that all prisoners freely associate and a 'Mr Big (Grouty) stalksthe wings, or vulenrabel prisoners are sodomisded in the showers belongs to the world of the Daily Mail, where prisoners dine on the finest cuisineare and are waited on by the warders.
As to this case it seems clear this bloke is 'trying it on' and, "some 50 per cent of Scottish inmates only discovered their new gender identity after they were charged by police." hmmm
Those convicted should be subject to whatever was deemed suitable at the time of their arrest. Otherwise we would have (an extreme example) sentenced a former concentration guard as a Catholic priest as he had became before his arrest.
It cannot be beyond the ability of the prison service to allocate a wing where such people are held. And despite the scaremongering by the rightwing press it does seem as if this bloke is in a seperate unit.
Still, that does not make for much of a story, or distraction [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:04]
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:44 - Jan 26 with 1933 views | Bluefields |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 13:27 - Jan 26 by GlasgowBlue |
OK. I have no sleep loss over whatever punishment the 'lags' dish out to rapists and paedos who are in prison. However, what prison does this offender serve their time in?
Put her in a women's prison and she is a clear danger to other women. Put her in a men's prison and if she is fully transitioned then they are in very grave danger of being passed about by other inmates for their own sexual gratification.
Does this case make a farce of recent legislation? [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:38]
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She is vulnerable wherever she is put but I suppose that if she is transitioning then she should serve her time in a womens prison. I expect she'll basically spend her whole sentence in "solitary". | | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:18 - Jan 26 with 1875 views | leitrimblue |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:31 - Jan 26 by HARRY10 |
You appear to have little knowledge of the prison system. Sex offendesr and police officers will not only opt for Rule 43 segregation, but will often be put on it for their safety. But mostly to save the prison staff the hassle of dealing with any consequent problems
The idea that all prisoners freely associate and a 'Mr Big (Grouty) stalksthe wings, or vulenrabel prisoners are sodomisded in the showers belongs to the world of the Daily Mail, where prisoners dine on the finest cuisineare and are waited on by the warders.
As to this case it seems clear this bloke is 'trying it on' and, "some 50 per cent of Scottish inmates only discovered their new gender identity after they were charged by police." hmmm
Those convicted should be subject to whatever was deemed suitable at the time of their arrest. Otherwise we would have (an extreme example) sentenced a former concentration guard as a Catholic priest as he had became before his arrest.
It cannot be beyond the ability of the prison service to allocate a wing where such people are held. And despite the scaremongering by the rightwing press it does seem as if this bloke is in a seperate unit.
Still, that does not make for much of a story, or distraction [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:04]
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I thought the same Harry. Surely the vast majority of sex offenders go straight into numbers (rule 43 segregation). Therefore won't be coming into contact with the rest of the general prison population |  | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:22 - Jan 26 with 1856 views | DJR |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:18 - Jan 26 by leitrimblue |
I thought the same Harry. Surely the vast majority of sex offenders go straight into numbers (rule 43 segregation). Therefore won't be coming into contact with the rest of the general prison population |
Who lets the facts get in the way of a further opportunity to fight the culture wars or attack the Scottish government? [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:24]
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:39 - Jan 26 with 1799 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:27 - Jan 26 by DJR |
The following from Wikipedia suggests that the debate in the Nordic countries hasn't become fixated with prisons and the like, and that the various women's movements are fully supportive of transgender rights.
"The Nordic model approach to transgender rights emphasizes the human rights of transgender people and is based on legal equality and self-identification, which has been adopted in countries such as Denmark, Greenland, Norway and Iceland. In 2014, the Danish Parliament voted 59—52 to remove the requirement of a mental disorder diagnosis and surgery with irreversible sterilization for transgender people who wish to change their legal gender. A similar act was adopted in Greenland in 2016. In Norway the Gender Recognition Act, that introduced self-identification, was introduced by the Conservative-led government of Erna Solberg and adopted in 2016. The act received widespread support from most political parties, the LGBTIQ+ rights movement and the feminist movement, including the Norwegian Association for Women's Rights. Transgender people are also protected against discrimination and hate speech under discrimination and criminal law. Iceland adopted the Gender Autonomy Act that introduced self-identification and a third legal gender option in 2019, which received widespread support, including from the Icelandic Women's Rights Association. The women's rights movement in the Nordic countries strongly supports transgender rights. In 2021 the Icelandic Women's Rights Association in cooperation with the International Alliance of Women organized a forum on how the women's movement could counter "anti-trans voices." [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 14:29]
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I haven’t seen a single person in this thread be unsupportive of trans rights. |  |
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:45 - Jan 26 with 1766 views | HARRY10 |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:22 - Jan 26 by DJR |
Who lets the facts get in the way of a further opportunity to fight the culture wars or attack the Scottish government? [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:24]
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Or distract from the revelation that the man deemed by the bloater to be fit to be in charge of UK tax (among other things) has been shown to have indulged in tax evasion.
Has the sleaze got so bad that we have become immune, or do the not too bright sgtill cling to the notrion that 'thems our betters' so should not be questioned.
Perhaps some red wallers might care to reflect in the fact this is the man who claimed heating for his stables off the taxpayer*, when they wonder if they can afford to turn the heating on.
Odd how one they accept, and the other (Scots) they get so excited about
* https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/10/nadhim-zahawi-admits-taxpayers- | | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:48 - Jan 26 with 1737 views | BloomBlue |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:31 - Jan 26 by HARRY10 |
You appear to have little knowledge of the prison system. Sex offendesr and police officers will not only opt for Rule 43 segregation, but will often be put on it for their safety. But mostly to save the prison staff the hassle of dealing with any consequent problems
The idea that all prisoners freely associate and a 'Mr Big (Grouty) stalksthe wings, or vulenrabel prisoners are sodomisded in the showers belongs to the world of the Daily Mail, where prisoners dine on the finest cuisineare and are waited on by the warders.
As to this case it seems clear this bloke is 'trying it on' and, "some 50 per cent of Scottish inmates only discovered their new gender identity after they were charged by police." hmmm
Those convicted should be subject to whatever was deemed suitable at the time of their arrest. Otherwise we would have (an extreme example) sentenced a former concentration guard as a Catholic priest as he had became before his arrest.
It cannot be beyond the ability of the prison service to allocate a wing where such people are held. And despite the scaremongering by the rightwing press it does seem as if this bloke is in a seperate unit.
Still, that does not make for much of a story, or distraction [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:04]
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Although rule 45 (rule 43 is now about prisoners property) still normally places VPs (Vulnerable Prisoner) into the same part of the prison not necessarily into solitary confinement which could still make this male prisoner a danger to the other female prisoners in the VP section - although I don't know if this individual is in SC. | | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:04 - Jan 26 with 1688 views | DJR |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:39 - Jan 26 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven’t seen a single person in this thread be unsupportive of trans rights. |
But the issue of transgender people in prison is being stirred up as part of the anti-Sturgeon and anti-trans culture wars, and I was merely pointing out that the Nordic countries appear to have approached this issue in a more mature and collaborative way.
Just look at the latest Mail headline on the matter.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11679469/Transgender-double-rapist-Isla [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 16:06]
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:05 - Jan 26 with 1685 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 13:39 - Jan 26 by DanTheMan |
Whilst I personally agree they should, at least for the time being, be put into a men's prison, it does raise some other questions about where you put sex offenders of any gender.
If you had a male rapist who raped other men who were put in a male prison, I imagine some of the inmates would feel uncomfortable.
If you had a female rapist who raped other women who were put in a female prison, I imagine some of the inmates would also feel uncomfortable. |
And where do you put men who killed other men? That would make the other men nervous!!
Segregation within prisons would be the logical answer. Unless you want to start a process of building prisons based in convictions.
White collar crime could have one with queen-sized beds and champagne.
I know I started by replying to you, but I've gone on a tangent, and it might appear like I'm winding you up with things that aren't really relevant to your post. This isn't my intention. |  |
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:09 - Jan 26 with 1673 views | Ryorry |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 15:48 - Jan 26 by BloomBlue |
Although rule 45 (rule 43 is now about prisoners property) still normally places VPs (Vulnerable Prisoner) into the same part of the prison not necessarily into solitary confinement which could still make this male prisoner a danger to the other female prisoners in the VP section - although I don't know if this individual is in SC. |
The former Governor I mentioned in my previous post (p1) pointed out amongst other things that you can't keep any prisoner under segreation - which in effect means solitary - unless they've already shown that they're a danger to others within the prison, as it would be inhumane to do so.. [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 16:11]
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:26 - Jan 26 with 1640 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 14:31 - Jan 26 by HARRY10 |
You appear to have little knowledge of the prison system. Sex offendesr and police officers will not only opt for Rule 43 segregation, but will often be put on it for their safety. But mostly to save the prison staff the hassle of dealing with any consequent problems
The idea that all prisoners freely associate and a 'Mr Big (Grouty) stalksthe wings, or vulenrabel prisoners are sodomisded in the showers belongs to the world of the Daily Mail, where prisoners dine on the finest cuisineare and are waited on by the warders.
As to this case it seems clear this bloke is 'trying it on' and, "some 50 per cent of Scottish inmates only discovered their new gender identity after they were charged by police." hmmm
Those convicted should be subject to whatever was deemed suitable at the time of their arrest. Otherwise we would have (an extreme example) sentenced a former concentration guard as a Catholic priest as he had became before his arrest.
It cannot be beyond the ability of the prison service to allocate a wing where such people are held. And despite the scaremongering by the rightwing press it does seem as if this bloke is in a seperate unit.
Still, that does not make for much of a story, or distraction [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 15:04]
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"bloke"?
It looks like your mind is made up on this one! | | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:38 - Jan 26 with 1624 views | DJR |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:04 - Jan 26 by DJR |
But the issue of transgender people in prison is being stirred up as part of the anti-Sturgeon and anti-trans culture wars, and I was merely pointing out that the Nordic countries appear to have approached this issue in a more mature and collaborative way.
Just look at the latest Mail headline on the matter.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11679469/Transgender-double-rapist-Isla [Post edited 26 Jan 2023 16:06]
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It's now the main headline on the BBC website. I don't recall the original Gender Recognition Bill in 2004 getting this type of adverse publicity. But that was when we had a progressive government. | | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:46 - Jan 26 with 1593 views | HARRY10 |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:26 - Jan 26 by ArnoldMoorhen |
"bloke"?
It looks like your mind is made up on this one! |
yes, thats the odd thing about forums - they tend to contain opinions based on what people think
and biologically this person is a male
bloke is a commonly used word for an adult male | | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:47 - Jan 26 with 1597 views | giant_stow |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:38 - Jan 26 by DJR |
It's now the main headline on the BBC website. I don't recall the original Gender Recognition Bill in 2004 getting this type of adverse publicity. But that was when we had a progressive government. |
I think its fair enough that this is big news, given the current debates / culture wars / constitutional legal battle with the SNP. | |
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:48 - Jan 26 with 1596 views | Bluebell |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 13:54 - Jan 26 by BiGDonnie |
If he's had his willy chopped off, female prison. If he still has a willy, male prison.
Too easy. |
There was a photo in the Daily Mail yesterday in leggings and there was definitely a willy! |  | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 17:42 - Jan 26 with 1518 views | Buhrer |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 13:39 - Jan 26 by DanTheMan |
Whilst I personally agree they should, at least for the time being, be put into a men's prison, it does raise some other questions about where you put sex offenders of any gender.
If you had a male rapist who raped other men who were put in a male prison, I imagine some of the inmates would feel uncomfortable.
If you had a female rapist who raped other women who were put in a female prison, I imagine some of the inmates would also feel uncomfortable. |
Put them all together on some bleak island forever, and make the rest of us more comfortable whatever our gender. |  | | |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 17:56 - Jan 26 with 1488 views | DanTheMan |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 16:05 - Jan 26 by Kropotkin123 |
And where do you put men who killed other men? That would make the other men nervous!!
Segregation within prisons would be the logical answer. Unless you want to start a process of building prisons based in convictions.
White collar crime could have one with queen-sized beds and champagne.
I know I started by replying to you, but I've gone on a tangent, and it might appear like I'm winding you up with things that aren't really relevant to your post. This isn't my intention. |
I'd be down for some white collar crime if this was the case.
Pump and dump crypto scams are in vogue right now... | |
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| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 18:02 - Jan 26 with 1478 views | J2BLUE |
| Should this offender serve their time in a woman or man prison? on 17:56 - Jan 26 by DanTheMan |
I'd be down for some white collar crime if this was the case.
Pump and dump crypto scams are in vogue right now... |
You reminder me to check my crypto holdings.
I wish I hadn't bothered... |  |
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