| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:33 - Feb 10 with 1048 views | Herbivore |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:28 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s Brexit all over again. Let’s call northerners “Neanderthals”. That’ll win ‘em over.
How many tines have we been here before? How many times has that lesson been learned?
Imo, capital punishment is abhorrent. However, 52% of the country (that number again) believe in restoration of capital punishment for certain crimes. Let’s call them thick and then get them on board with our views. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 8:30]
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Is David Yelland now a major opinion former? Most of the criticism of Lee Anderson is that he's a complete berk, willfully dishonest and nasty with it, not that he's from the north. To be honest, most people don't even care about this stuff at this point, they just want the Tories gone. There's not many people that are as invested in the cut and thrust of party politics as you are and the culture war stuff isn't really cutting through anymore, not to any meaningful degree.
And again, I'm not sure appointing someone as obviously awful as Lee Anderson to a senior post is quite the win you think it is. It's like loudly and proudly sh!tting yourself in public and calling it a win because nobody noticed you were wearing odd socks. |  |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:33 - Feb 10 with 1044 views | Herbivore |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:23 - Feb 10 by BanksterDebtSlave |
If you watched QT last night you will have seen that there is quite a base out there. |
You've made the mistake of thinking QT is remotely representative. | |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:35 - Feb 10 with 1038 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:16 - Feb 10 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Funny that you, a staunch Starmer man, would want to kick off the show for another day. |
Starmer is clever and thoughtful. The Tories lay trap after trap for him over stuff like Brexit, immigration and strikes and he is intelligent enough not to fall into them.
Some people call him vanilla and uninspiring. Far from it. He’s a bloody good politician. |  |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:40 - Feb 10 with 1003 views | Herbivore |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:35 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Starmer is clever and thoughtful. The Tories lay trap after trap for him over stuff like Brexit, immigration and strikes and he is intelligent enough not to fall into them.
Some people call him vanilla and uninspiring. Far from it. He’s a bloody good politician. |
It's depressing that people value politicians who are good at political games rather than good for the country. | |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 09:25 - Feb 10 with 957 views | Blueschev |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:40 - Feb 10 by Herbivore |
It's depressing that people value politicians who are good at political games rather than good for the country. |
Quite. It would be nice to have an inspiring alternative, rather than the lesser of two evils who appears to be petrified of appealing to the very people that belong to his party. It's all very depressing. |  | | |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 09:59 - Feb 10 with 914 views | tractordownsouth |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 12:59 - Feb 9 by DJR |
That is true, but having said that, I have had experience of electioneering, where it is possible to target Facebook ads to particular areas or even (I believe) streets.
In such ads, no doubt Greg Hands will be the poster boy for the south and the more middle-class areas of the north, and Lee Anderson will be poster boy for the remaining areas in the north. |
The logic behind the move is definitely to throw red meat to the section of the Tory base who might be thinking of voting for Reform UK. I don't think it'll save many votes though, Richard Tice is a painfully awful campaigner and their by-election performances are nowhere near what UKIP's were in 2013-14, which is probably the best comparison as a lot of the voters will be the same.
I saw a tweet the other day saying that Lee Anderson is an offensive stereotype of what upper-class Tories who have never met anybody working-class believe all voters in the north and midlands are like, and that Ian Lavery is the Labour version. I think that sums it up quite well. |  |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:04 - Feb 10 with 911 views | DJR |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:28 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s Brexit all over again. Let’s call northerners “Neanderthals”. That’ll win ‘em over.
How many tines have we been here before? How many times has that lesson been learned?
Imo, capital punishment is abhorrent. However, 52% of the country (that number again) believe in restoration of capital punishment for certain crimes. Let’s call them thick and then get them on board with our views. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 8:30]
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I totally agree that being patronising or critical of voters is not the way "to win friends and influence people", as Dale Carnegie put it.
Having said that, I don't really have an issue with people on this board attacking the views that Lee Anderson expresses. It's what this board is for, and is unlikely to have any bearing on the next election. |  | | |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:05 - Feb 10 with 909 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:40 - Feb 10 by Herbivore |
It's depressing that people value politicians who are good at political games rather than good for the country. |
Do you believe those worse off in society would be better served if Labour won the next election, or lose it but “win the argument, and we have another five years of Tory government? | |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:09 - Feb 10 with 905 views | DJR |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:33 - Feb 10 by Herbivore |
Is David Yelland now a major opinion former? Most of the criticism of Lee Anderson is that he's a complete berk, willfully dishonest and nasty with it, not that he's from the north. To be honest, most people don't even care about this stuff at this point, they just want the Tories gone. There's not many people that are as invested in the cut and thrust of party politics as you are and the culture war stuff isn't really cutting through anymore, not to any meaningful degree.
And again, I'm not sure appointing someone as obviously awful as Lee Anderson to a senior post is quite the win you think it is. It's like loudly and proudly sh!tting yourself in public and calling it a win because nobody noticed you were wearing odd socks. |
Interestingly, Yelland was on the telly a few days expressing fairly liberal views.
As editor of the Sun, I had always regarded him as fairly right wing, but he was originally a social democrat and was editor at the time the Sun supported Labour. | | | |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:15 - Feb 10 with 899 views | DJR |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:35 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Starmer is clever and thoughtful. The Tories lay trap after trap for him over stuff like Brexit, immigration and strikes and he is intelligent enough not to fall into them.
Some people call him vanilla and uninspiring. Far from it. He’s a bloody good politician. |
By clever and thoughtful, I think you mean timid, or in hock to his advisers, who are really pulling the strings.
The danger it seems to me that if he doesn't show a bit of backbone and policy differential when the Tories are at such a low ebb, he will be beholden to the right wing press when he gets into power and very limited in what he can do. | | | |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:16 - Feb 10 with 898 views | Blueschev |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:05 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you believe those worse off in society would be better served if Labour won the next election, or lose it but “win the argument, and we have another five years of Tory government? |
Average people will be slightly better off under a Labour government for sure. But given the technological progress we as a species have made over the past two centuries, is it not unreasonable to aim higher than slightly better? What is Starmer actually offering? "Vote for me, I'm not them". What a time to be alive. | | | |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:22 - Feb 10 with 885 views | DJR |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:05 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you believe those worse off in society would be better served if Labour won the next election, or lose it but “win the argument, and we have another five years of Tory government? |
At the moment, Labour aren't really putting forward much of an argument, when the mood of the country is such that the could afford to be much more forceful.
In any event, I don't think many people commenting on this board from a left wing point of view would not vote Labour (including me) but it doesn't mean we can't be disappointed at the very feebleness on offer.
There is, however, a danger that uninspiring policies will merely put off, say, the younger voters inspired in recent years to vote, and it must not be forgotten that there are a lot of hurdles in the way of voting (such as voter ID and a transient population less likely to register to vote). [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 10:23]
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:37 - Feb 10 with 871 views | Herbivore |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:05 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you believe those worse off in society would be better served if Labour won the next election, or lose it but “win the argument, and we have another five years of Tory government? |
I think the worst off might be marginally better off, though it's tough to say for sure based on the (lack of) policies being put forward to help them. I know I've said this before, but the fact you feel you could vote Labour at the next election tells me that Labour is probably not a home for someone with my politics, and I don't mean that to sound horrible, we are just very different in our political leanings. | |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:53 - Feb 10 with 855 views | leitrimblue |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:05 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Do you believe those worse off in society would be better served if Labour won the next election, or lose it but “win the argument, and we have another five years of Tory government? |
Do you believe those worse off in society would have been better served if Labour had won the last election? Or was it more important to 'keep the racists out'? |  | | |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:57 - Feb 10 with 849 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:37 - Feb 10 by Herbivore |
I think the worst off might be marginally better off, though it's tough to say for sure based on the (lack of) policies being put forward to help them. I know I've said this before, but the fact you feel you could vote Labour at the next election tells me that Labour is probably not a home for someone with my politics, and I don't mean that to sound horrible, we are just very different in our political leanings. |
More of this says Starmer. by GlasgowBlue 16 Jan 2023 8:54But I would vote Starmer based more on my dislike of the direction that the Tory party has taken than a conversion that would see me desire a socialist utopia.
Taking aside my belief that the Tories have to lose the next election and spend a decade if reflection and reinvention fur their own good, I am not concerned about voting for Starmer. In 2019 I couldn’t vote Tory and I couldn’t vote Labour.
Labour need votes from Tory scum like me in order to win the next election. Just as Blair needed them in 1997.
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:58 - Feb 10 with 841 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:53 - Feb 10 by leitrimblue |
Do you believe those worse off in society would have been better served if Labour had won the last election? Or was it more important to 'keep the racists out'? |
In the long term, worse off. Excessive uncosted spending usually ends up hitting the worst off in society as it leads to decades of austerity.
That goes for uncosted spending from both sides, before anyone pipes up. | |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 11:29 - Feb 10 with 810 views | leitrimblue |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:58 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
In the long term, worse off. Excessive uncosted spending usually ends up hitting the worst off in society as it leads to decades of austerity.
That goes for uncosted spending from both sides, before anyone pipes up. |
I imagine you struggled to type that with a straight face  | | | |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 12:01 - Feb 10 with 745 views | Herbivore |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:57 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
More of this says Starmer. by GlasgowBlue 16 Jan 2023 8:54But I would vote Starmer based more on my dislike of the direction that the Tory party has taken than a conversion that would see me desire a socialist utopia.
Taking aside my belief that the Tories have to lose the next election and spend a decade if reflection and reinvention fur their own good, I am not concerned about voting for Starmer. In 2019 I couldn’t vote Tory and I couldn’t vote Labour.
Labour need votes from Tory scum like me in order to win the next election. Just as Blair needed them in 1997.
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That essentially just reinforces my point. | |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 12:02 - Feb 10 with 744 views | DJR |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:58 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
In the long term, worse off. Excessive uncosted spending usually ends up hitting the worst off in society as it leads to decades of austerity.
That goes for uncosted spending from both sides, before anyone pipes up. |
Interesting that the Atlee government achieved what it did on the basis of "uncosted" spending plans but this in turn led to growth which saw a dramatic fall in the debt to GDP ratio.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/11697/debt/post-war-boom/
Had Atlee followed the Tory approach since 2010, it would have been austerity, austerity, austerity, and look where that has got us.
Instead, Atlee followed the Keynsian principle that to create jobs and boost consumer buying power during a recession, governments should increase spending, even if it means going into debt. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 12:21]
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 12:04 - Feb 10 with 732 views | Blueschev |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:58 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
In the long term, worse off. Excessive uncosted spending usually ends up hitting the worst off in society as it leads to decades of austerity.
That goes for uncosted spending from both sides, before anyone pipes up. |
When has that ever happened in this country? | | | |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 12:05 - Feb 10 with 732 views | Herbivore |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 12:02 - Feb 10 by DJR |
Interesting that the Atlee government achieved what it did on the basis of "uncosted" spending plans but this in turn led to growth which saw a dramatic fall in the debt to GDP ratio.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/11697/debt/post-war-boom/
Had Atlee followed the Tory approach since 2010, it would have been austerity, austerity, austerity, and look where that has got us.
Instead, Atlee followed the Keynsian principle that to create jobs and boost consumer buying power during a recession, governments should increase spending, even if it means going into debt. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 12:21]
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If you spend on infrastructure and on things that can ultimately bolster the national purse, plus invest in health and well being, and future proof technologies like green energy, and if you redistribute wealth to those who are worse off who tend to spend their money rather than hoard it, all of those things ultimately support a more vibrant economy and put money into the coffers. Uncosted spending that is targeted at giving more money to the rich is far more problematic as we know that money never trickles down and it ends up in the economy doing a Truss. Not all public spending is equal in terms of its impact. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 12:07]
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 12:09 - Feb 10 with 717 views | itfcjoe |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 10:22 - Feb 10 by DJR |
At the moment, Labour aren't really putting forward much of an argument, when the mood of the country is such that the could afford to be much more forceful.
In any event, I don't think many people commenting on this board from a left wing point of view would not vote Labour (including me) but it doesn't mean we can't be disappointed at the very feebleness on offer.
There is, however, a danger that uninspiring policies will merely put off, say, the younger voters inspired in recent years to vote, and it must not be forgotten that there are a lot of hurdles in the way of voting (such as voter ID and a transient population less likely to register to vote). [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 10:23]
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I think Lisa Nandy has been interesting with the talk of genuine devolved power is a very good thing for this country - plus the green plan is ambitious and realistic enough even if would like it to go further.
But ultimately we need a Labour Govt just to get some spending into schools, early years and general public services as they are lagging so far behind now and that will cost us for a generation at least.......putting a lot of transport re public services into devolved hands, like TfL will improve things massively as infrastructure outside of London is so bad |  |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 15:46 - Feb 10 with 635 views | DJR |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 12:09 - Feb 10 by itfcjoe |
I think Lisa Nandy has been interesting with the talk of genuine devolved power is a very good thing for this country - plus the green plan is ambitious and realistic enough even if would like it to go further.
But ultimately we need a Labour Govt just to get some spending into schools, early years and general public services as they are lagging so far behind now and that will cost us for a generation at least.......putting a lot of transport re public services into devolved hands, like TfL will improve things massively as infrastructure outside of London is so bad |
I didn't vote for Lisa Nandy in the leadership election, partly because Starmer appeared to be the only realistic choice, and partly because she seemed a little bit right wing.
But given how Starmer has shifted to the right (at least in public), I now wonder if Nandy would have been the better choice, particularly as she is a good performer in person, and I remember hearing she went down much better than Starmer in focus groups.
On the green agenda, that is very much a positive, but I suppose the doubt may be whether we have sufficient numbers of qualified workers to implement it. That was one of the doubts expressed about Corbyn's similarly ambitious green agenda.
But I very much agree with your last paragraph. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 15:48]
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 16:12 - Feb 10 with 614 views | itfcjoe |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 15:46 - Feb 10 by DJR |
I didn't vote for Lisa Nandy in the leadership election, partly because Starmer appeared to be the only realistic choice, and partly because she seemed a little bit right wing.
But given how Starmer has shifted to the right (at least in public), I now wonder if Nandy would have been the better choice, particularly as she is a good performer in person, and I remember hearing she went down much better than Starmer in focus groups.
On the green agenda, that is very much a positive, but I suppose the doubt may be whether we have sufficient numbers of qualified workers to implement it. That was one of the doubts expressed about Corbyn's similarly ambitious green agenda.
But I very much agree with your last paragraph. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 15:48]
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I do think it is often forgotten where the Labour party was when Starmer was appointed leader, and it was seen as far too big a deficit to overcome in one election cycle and now to be holding this steady lead of 20 points plus despite supposed bounces that were expected of new PMs and the like is a massive achievement.
I think a more radical proposal will be required than the one Blair went with in 1997, but Labour have to show they can be trusted with the economy and cost everything and not go to OTT or they simply won't be elected. It's a tough line to tread and why only one Labour leader has won a GE in 50 years - the Tories will still be seen as the party of financial competence despite the last 13 years by many | |
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| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 16:28 - Feb 10 with 585 views | HARRY10 |
| 30p Lee is saying the quiet parts out loud again. on 08:28 - Feb 10 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s Brexit all over again. Let’s call northerners “Neanderthals”. That’ll win ‘em over.
How many tines have we been here before? How many times has that lesson been learned?
Imo, capital punishment is abhorrent. However, 52% of the country (that number again) believe in restoration of capital punishment for certain crimes. Let’s call them thick and then get them on board with our views. [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 8:30]
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As with brexiters, what do you refer to them as ? Whatever language you use it amounts to the same.
Theirs is not a considered thought,as with those who actually deal with such matters. It is a belief borne out of ignorance and a blind refusal ti engage.
The real patronising stuff is from those who think that you can hold a view about someone, but can win them over with nice language .........though reasoned argument has failed.
"I used to be a racist, but as you no longer say that I a bigot, I now realise racism is wrong"
Another absurd bleat out of the rightie playbook ie it is the normal folk who are wrong for the views held by righties. Yes, I am sure my no longer refering to thick people as thick will change their minds over brexit.
Take Lie Andersons sh yte about returning migrants back to France. I have yet to read where anyone is pointing out that as NO country can be made to take people from another country, then what he is saying is a lie.
Tell me how many of those who agree with his claim know this, or bothered to find out. And what would be their likely response ?
"Because you politely pointed this out, I now realise Lie Anderson was lying " yep, thats going to happen  |  | | |
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