| Tory voter collapse 17:58 - Feb 9 with 3575 views | HARRY10 |
Righties, look away now
Todays poll (28,000) in the Telegraph
has
Lab 49% - 509 seats
Con 23% - 45 seats
Which would mean the SNP with 50 seats would be the official opposition. A measure of the collapse is this is their lowest polling since 1832.
The thought was that there would be a Sunak bounce, pushing up the percentage. This has not happened and the thought is that with the bloater re-surfacing along with the horror that was Truss voters have been reminded of the incompetence of Johnson and the loony ideas of Truss, so even more have abandoned them.
And this was before Lee Anderson was given his job. Equivilant to putting Mr G Glitter on the board of the local PTA, somemight suggest.
The other thought was that disatisfaction with theTories would lead to a swing to the Libdems. It has not. Just a straight swap to Labour. There could also be bigger swings to both Lab and Libdems as in 1997 due to swing voters - as with the past three Tory by-elections
Whatever the, it is going to take a long while to unpick and repair the damage caused by 13 years of Tory incompetence, mismanagement and failure to invest. Something akin to us after Evans some might suggest.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/snap-general-election-would-leave-tor |  | | |  |
| Tory voter collapse on 13:59 - Feb 10 with 638 views | Ryorry |
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| Tory voter collapse on 14:29 - Feb 10 with 598 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tory voter collapse on 12:38 - Feb 10 by bluelagos |
From today's politico email:
"Britain Elects’ polling model for the New Statesman, which anticipated the result almost perfectly, claims a similar swing at a general election today would hand Labour 424 seats and the Tories 138. (There are, as always, many caveats to this.)" |
That is a prediction. Last night's by-election is a fact. A 10% swing to Labour. The previous by-election is also a fact. A 10% swing to Labour. Not enough for a majority. |  |
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| Tory voter collapse on 14:42 - Feb 10 with 578 views | noggin |
23% Tory. Who tf are these people and what is their motive for intending to vote that way? [Post edited 10 Feb 2023 14:56]
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| Tory voter collapse on 16:02 - Feb 10 with 535 views | HARRY10 |
So, still no defence or explanation of why 'voting blind' offers an equal amount of democracy.
Despite any claim, Scotland uses FPTP.
Whatever method you use decisions are made binary.... either yes or no. Either you reinstate capital punishment, or not. The nonsense from PR folk that someone can be half hung is as absurd as someone being a bit pregnant.
So unless there is an equal number sat roundbthe cabinet, the bigger party in the coalition always wins (see 2010-15) Thats how it works.
And every election in the UK under PR would have delivered a hung Parliament
So again I put this question.
Where is the democracy when the smaller party in a coalition finds itself in a coalition ? Did the voters of either patrty get a say in forming a coalition - or was that decided by a handful from either side ?
Decision making is not 'fair' It will always leave some 'out in the cold' but spouting nonsense that PR will someone end that is disenguous. It will not.
I was told a story somewhile back explaining PR.
A platoon of solduers do not like their corporeal so decide that if they were to increase their numbers from 30 to 60 that would half his authority. The 10 mile runs would become 5 mile runs.
And to the confused fellow. FPTP is NOT gerry mandering. Look up what gerrymandering actually is.
And well done Bluearz, it is not something outside of brexit circles that we find such a commitment to lying. The polls before the 2019 election were accurate.
The real problem is lack of accountability. The Lab MP jailed this week should have been removed long before. Shysters like the bloater should be removed as with Hancock, for non attendance. No accountability in the chaber either. The gutbucket is free to lie as he kows there are no sanctions. End second jobs, as MPs are iny employed because of the influence they can bring, and the insider jnowledge they offer.
MPs need to be treated as other employees. More strict I would say given their position. | | | |
| Tory voter collapse on 16:14 - Feb 10 with 518 views | WeirdFishes |
| Tory voter collapse on 18:21 - Feb 9 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The biggest problem is how long there is before the next General Election still. |
Precisely why I take these with a huge mountain of salt until the months leading to an election. Many Tory voters will get cold-feet at the idea of not voting for them and put a tick in their box anyway. |  |
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| Tory voter collapse on 18:16 - Feb 10 with 473 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Tory voter collapse on 16:02 - Feb 10 by HARRY10 |
So, still no defence or explanation of why 'voting blind' offers an equal amount of democracy.
Despite any claim, Scotland uses FPTP.
Whatever method you use decisions are made binary.... either yes or no. Either you reinstate capital punishment, or not. The nonsense from PR folk that someone can be half hung is as absurd as someone being a bit pregnant.
So unless there is an equal number sat roundbthe cabinet, the bigger party in the coalition always wins (see 2010-15) Thats how it works.
And every election in the UK under PR would have delivered a hung Parliament
So again I put this question.
Where is the democracy when the smaller party in a coalition finds itself in a coalition ? Did the voters of either patrty get a say in forming a coalition - or was that decided by a handful from either side ?
Decision making is not 'fair' It will always leave some 'out in the cold' but spouting nonsense that PR will someone end that is disenguous. It will not.
I was told a story somewhile back explaining PR.
A platoon of solduers do not like their corporeal so decide that if they were to increase their numbers from 30 to 60 that would half his authority. The 10 mile runs would become 5 mile runs.
And to the confused fellow. FPTP is NOT gerry mandering. Look up what gerrymandering actually is.
And well done Bluearz, it is not something outside of brexit circles that we find such a commitment to lying. The polls before the 2019 election were accurate.
The real problem is lack of accountability. The Lab MP jailed this week should have been removed long before. Shysters like the bloater should be removed as with Hancock, for non attendance. No accountability in the chaber either. The gutbucket is free to lie as he kows there are no sanctions. End second jobs, as MPs are iny employed because of the influence they can bring, and the insider jnowledge they offer.
MPs need to be treated as other employees. More strict I would say given their position. |
FPTP delivered an 87 seat majority for a single party based on these figures:
Registered to vote 47,568,611
Voted 32,013,675
Voted conservative 13,966,454
Would you not agree that we need more equitable representation in the HoC than our FPTP system offers? |  |
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| Tory voter collapse on 01:35 - Feb 11 with 386 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Tory voter collapse on 16:02 - Feb 10 by HARRY10 |
So, still no defence or explanation of why 'voting blind' offers an equal amount of democracy.
Despite any claim, Scotland uses FPTP.
Whatever method you use decisions are made binary.... either yes or no. Either you reinstate capital punishment, or not. The nonsense from PR folk that someone can be half hung is as absurd as someone being a bit pregnant.
So unless there is an equal number sat roundbthe cabinet, the bigger party in the coalition always wins (see 2010-15) Thats how it works.
And every election in the UK under PR would have delivered a hung Parliament
So again I put this question.
Where is the democracy when the smaller party in a coalition finds itself in a coalition ? Did the voters of either patrty get a say in forming a coalition - or was that decided by a handful from either side ?
Decision making is not 'fair' It will always leave some 'out in the cold' but spouting nonsense that PR will someone end that is disenguous. It will not.
I was told a story somewhile back explaining PR.
A platoon of solduers do not like their corporeal so decide that if they were to increase their numbers from 30 to 60 that would half his authority. The 10 mile runs would become 5 mile runs.
And to the confused fellow. FPTP is NOT gerry mandering. Look up what gerrymandering actually is.
And well done Bluearz, it is not something outside of brexit circles that we find such a commitment to lying. The polls before the 2019 election were accurate.
The real problem is lack of accountability. The Lab MP jailed this week should have been removed long before. Shysters like the bloater should be removed as with Hancock, for non attendance. No accountability in the chaber either. The gutbucket is free to lie as he kows there are no sanctions. End second jobs, as MPs are iny employed because of the influence they can bring, and the insider jnowledge they offer.
MPs need to be treated as other employees. More strict I would say given their position. |
Of course FPTP is used in Scotland for Westminster UK Elections. But a form of PR is used for Holyrood Scottish Parliament Elections to elect MSPs (Member of the Scottish Parliament) and it was they who I referred to in my earlier post.
I know that FPTP doesn't mean the same thing as Gerrymandering. I used gerrymandered as an additional adjectival verb to describe the UK General Election system. The Electoral Commission has grave concerns about the way boundary changes are being implemented.
If you read up on the system used for the Scottish Parliament you will see that it includes directly elected MSPs who are named candidates for a particular Constituency. I know who the candidates are and vote accordingly. There is then a balancing list of candidates who are elected additionally so that the composition of Holyrood overall mirrors vote share by Party more closely (but not perfectly).
The arguments for PR are that it removes the disenfranchising effect of living in a safe seat, that it allows for parties such as the Greens to have their (minority) views represented by a fairer number of MPs, that it minimises the effect of abuses like gerrymandering by an incumbent Government, and that it makes all voters equal, rather than a few thousand swing voters in marginal seats effectively deciding a General Election. Basically it is fairer.
Your arguments against Coalition Government would be more convincing of they weren't being played out against a contemporary political scene in which a recent Prime Minister illegally closed Parliament, squashed Committee reports into illegal activity and malign foreign interference in the Brexit Rederendum, and ignored the Ministerial Ethics advisor on multiple occasions, knowing that there would be no comeback for any of those things because the solid majority in Parliament gave them cover.
There are plenty of mature democracies using nuanced versions of PR, where Coalition politics doesn't follow the pattern you describe. Instead, in those countries, politicians have to develop skills in working together, negotiation and consensus-building. Leaders of smaller parties have to demonstrate the expertise that they can bring to a Coalition Cabinet. The net effect is a less polarised political climate than that seen here in the UK in recent years, and less kamikaze policies as a result. | | | |
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