By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
'The vehicles are larger and heavier than regular cars and use on average 20% more fuel. The increased number of SUVs in 2022 were responsible for a third of the increase in global oil demand.
Purchases of SUVs have soared in recent years, rising from 20% of new cars in 2012 to 46% of all cars last year, the IEA reports.'
Yes, governments have to drive and enforce real change if our kids are to have any hope of a decent life, but WE ARE RESPONSIBLE TOO with our purchasing habits and our ego-driven, self-deluding and selfish bullsh!t lifestyles.
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 09:45 - Mar 1 by BanksterDebtSlave
So you are saying that millions of people live down unmade roads where only an SUV will do?
I'm working on a large wind turbine project in Co Mayo today an tomorrow. Involves driving for 15 minutes along a semi off road made up track. You would definitely struggle to make it in a micra.... I think your also right that there are different degrees of countryside. Living halfway up a mountain in somewhere like Yorkshire is very different to living in a village in Suffolk. Most of Leitrim seem to drive SUV,s, but most people are just using um to drive from their village to work in nearest towns and really don't need um at all. You should see the school run, it's like a monster truck rally
2
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:21 - Mar 1 with 629 views
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:08 - Mar 1 by Churchman
Cars have got bigger. Mrs Cs Yaris will fit in the garage, my Audi A3 won’t. My buddy’s Focus is bigger than the Mondeo he used to have. When you see an older car, such as a Mini or even say an 80s BMW 3 series, they look tiny. So why the growth in car size? Because bigger is perceived as better.
As for SUVs I cannot fathom why anyone would want one unless there is a specific need. I certainly wouldn't. Expensive to run, hard to park, roads not big enough - why have one? You can get taller cars with height to them but a small ‘footprint’ too. I know Toyota make one. What about safety? The majority of cars are ridiculously safe now so it’s not a factor. Large family? A larger standard car will take five with ease.
For me it’s mostly fashion and ego boost/look at me stuff in the same way if you are driving a small car, some people will attempt to bully you with lights, tailgating etc. A minority of other road users noticeably treat me differently if I’m driving Mrs Cs car (that might of course be my rubbish driving).
As a starting point, I would tax all large vehicles off the road, unless there is a need - work related such as farming, medical related such as high/easy access for those with mobility issues.
On the cars getting larger (excluding SUVs) that is also true but that’s largely a product of the added safety equipment and technology/sensors etc.
We have a small (used) city car which is brilliant for this stuff, economical, nimble in urban areas, easy to park. There are very few new models of comparable size - EU legislation has largely made these economally unviable to manufacture at that size and at a price people would pay. It has the safety kit airbags/roll bars etc but now it’s compulsory to lane assist/radar speed limiters etc they are simply too expensive to make compared to what people would pay.
0
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:24 - Mar 1 with 621 views
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:17 - Mar 1 by Ryorry
There's also the factor that many SUV drivers like myself never buy *new* cars - even the smallest of which would require environmentally unfrendly usage of a helluva lot of resources.
Instead, we repair & recycle old ones. If you're a very low mileage user, the mpg trade-off (edit: I mean older cars tend to be greedier) is insignificant by comparison.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2023 10:20]
That’s a fair point - at your annual mileage it would take 60 years to ‘break even’ at a conservative estimate….
1
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:25 - Mar 1 with 613 views
Related to this is all the electric cars on the roads seem to be massive - seems a bit of cop out to me. I get that its tricky for car makers to make a profit on smaller electric cars, but they don't seem like much of a solution to me - more a fig leaf.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:31 - Mar 1 by giant_stow
Related to this is all the electric cars on the roads seem to be massive - seems a bit of cop out to me. I get that its tricky for car makers to make a profit on smaller electric cars, but they don't seem like much of a solution to me - more a fig leaf.
Batteries take up a lot of space, especially if you have to spread them out across the floor-pan of the car.
On a side note, wind resistance is the biggest issue for electric cars, weight not so much so. Electric motors have high torque, so acceleration isn't an issue. But air resistance at high speeds saps the batteries and reduces range at a much higher rate. Size does not matter so much as streamlining.
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:14 - Mar 1 by DanTheMan
"Finger-pointing one way or another over these things is not really helpful."
This is true, for the most part. As others have made the point, large corporations try and steer us towards stuff that they know is wrong because they value profit overall.
The whole "climate footprint" thing was an amazing little piece of advertising from BP to turn the blame onto people so that the focus is taken off of them and laws that can actually create proper change.
People can and should do their best to limit their impact, but the much much bigger prize is regulation.
Quick video on this from the excellent Climate Town
[Post edited 1 Mar 2023 10:15]
Also on this, I went to see whether their calculator was still up. Seems BP ditched it (I wonder why?) and now has this amazing tool.
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:21 - Mar 1 by leitrimblue
I'm working on a large wind turbine project in Co Mayo today an tomorrow. Involves driving for 15 minutes along a semi off road made up track. You would definitely struggle to make it in a micra.... I think your also right that there are different degrees of countryside. Living halfway up a mountain in somewhere like Yorkshire is very different to living in a village in Suffolk. Most of Leitrim seem to drive SUV,s, but most people are just using um to drive from their village to work in nearest towns and really don't need um at all. You should see the school run, it's like a monster truck rally
Yours is probably a much milder climate than us here on the Pennines tho, where we can get snow & ice from Oct-April inclusive, and our country lanes & roads these days don't get gritted till the 4th day after snowfall (used to be second day, but cutbacks etc).
You can literally pay BP to offset carbon emissions. BP emits 55 million tons per year.
One thing I've never understood is CO2 emissions from a car.
My car emits just under 100 grams per kilometre, but 100 grams is four ounces which seems an awful lot for a gas. Indeed, it makes me wonder if the weight of CO2 emissions exceeds the weight of petrol used for a 1 km journey (a little bit over half a mile).
Incidentally, I assume the weight of CO2 emissions represents the compressed weight of the gas.
Any scientists on here who can explain it?
[Post edited 1 Mar 2023 10:54]
0
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 11:19 - Mar 1 with 513 views
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:41 - Mar 1 by Ryorry
Yours is probably a much milder climate than us here on the Pennines tho, where we can get snow & ice from Oct-April inclusive, and our country lanes & roads these days don't get gritted till the 4th day after snowfall (used to be second day, but cutbacks etc).
Wrote you a long reply but there is very poor signal where I am today and just realised it never posted. Gist of it was if I was living where you are yerself I would almost definitely be driving a 4x4. You only have to get stuck halfway up a mountain in a unsuitable vehicle once to realise you never wanna do that again
2
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 11:24 - Mar 1 with 507 views
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:50 - Mar 1 by DJR
One thing I've never understood is CO2 emissions from a car.
My car emits just under 100 grams per kilometre, but 100 grams is four ounces which seems an awful lot for a gas. Indeed, it makes me wonder if the weight of CO2 emissions exceeds the weight of petrol used for a 1 km journey (a little bit over half a mile).
Incidentally, I assume the weight of CO2 emissions represents the compressed weight of the gas.
Any scientists on here who can explain it?
[Post edited 1 Mar 2023 10:54]
I think it's basically because you're taking something that is essentially carbon and then combining that with two atoms of oxygen during combustion (adding more weight to it than it had) and then that weighs more than it originally did.
Very "bag of a fag packet" maths and obviously petrol is not pure carbon but has some other stuff in but I think that's why.
> I assume the weight of CO2 emissions represents the compressed weight of the gas.
I don't think so? I don't think they are literally weighing it but probably doing something similar to the above. We know how much 1 carbon weighs, we know how much 1 carbon + 2 oxygen weighs and we extrapolate from there.
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:41 - Mar 1 by Ryorry
Yours is probably a much milder climate than us here on the Pennines tho, where we can get snow & ice from Oct-April inclusive, and our country lanes & roads these days don't get gritted till the 4th day after snowfall (used to be second day, but cutbacks etc).
As someone who lived in urban Leeds in the winter of 1978-79, I remember snow on the ground from December to April.
And if nothing else you're probably safer in a bigger car, just in case someone ploughs into you in snowy/icy conditions. And you are also better placed to help tow someone out of a ditch.
1
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 11:31 - Mar 1 with 489 views
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 11:27 - Mar 1 by DanTheMan
I think it's basically because you're taking something that is essentially carbon and then combining that with two atoms of oxygen during combustion (adding more weight to it than it had) and then that weighs more than it originally did.
Very "bag of a fag packet" maths and obviously petrol is not pure carbon but has some other stuff in but I think that's why.
> I assume the weight of CO2 emissions represents the compressed weight of the gas.
I don't think so? I don't think they are literally weighing it but probably doing something similar to the above. We know how much 1 carbon weighs, we know how much 1 carbon + 2 oxygen weighs and we extrapolate from there.
Many thanks. That sounds like the answer to me.
0
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 11:37 - Mar 1 with 469 views
As long as people think other people need to change but not them we will have this problem.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:21 - Mar 1 by SuperKieranMcKenna
On the cars getting larger (excluding SUVs) that is also true but that’s largely a product of the added safety equipment and technology/sensors etc.
We have a small (used) city car which is brilliant for this stuff, economical, nimble in urban areas, easy to park. There are very few new models of comparable size - EU legislation has largely made these economally unviable to manufacture at that size and at a price people would pay. It has the safety kit airbags/roll bars etc but now it’s compulsory to lane assist/radar speed limiters etc they are simply too expensive to make compared to what people would pay.
I didn’t know that about Lane assist stuff etc being compulsory. That’s really interesting. I thought it was just manufacturers loading cars up with stuff I don’t need to charge more. With computers/microchips, is it complex technology (guessing here - I’ve no idea really) size wise?
Airbags (some) were on cars 30 years ago, crumple zones etc even longer and with new technology how much space does this stuff take? But then I’m cynical and suspect you are right especially re economic viability for manufacturers. That makes sense to me.
You are right about usability of small cars. Mrs Cs Yaris gets used all the time while although my car isn’t exactly huge, it tends to get used for longer journeys. Thinking about my first cars, they were rubbish. It has to be said modern ones are absolutely brilliant by comparison.
On the subject of suitability, in a place like Colorado anything less that an SUV is pretty insane. The climate is so harsh, standard and small cars just come apart, assuming you can get through the winter weather. Horses for course and each to their own. If there’s a business need or a medical/physical need, no problem. My late father in law would have benefitted hugely from an SUV, same with my mate’s dad.
I am a complete hypocrite on this subject really. Though not that large, my car is reasonably powerful, 6 months old and in terms of environment a totally unnecessary purchase. My 8 year old Honda was in perfect order and low mileage. I just wanted something different and could afford it. The only things on my mind were it’s performance, costs, fun factor, size/space/usability.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2023 12:38]
0
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 13:32 - Mar 1 with 424 views
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:21 - Mar 1 by leitrimblue
I'm working on a large wind turbine project in Co Mayo today an tomorrow. Involves driving for 15 minutes along a semi off road made up track. You would definitely struggle to make it in a micra.... I think your also right that there are different degrees of countryside. Living halfway up a mountain in somewhere like Yorkshire is very different to living in a village in Suffolk. Most of Leitrim seem to drive SUV,s, but most people are just using um to drive from their village to work in nearest towns and really don't need um at all. You should see the school run, it's like a monster truck rally
Agreed. That's why my original reply to Ryorry said "they" not "you."
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 10:17 - Mar 1 by Ryorry
There's also the factor that many SUV drivers like myself never buy *new* cars - even the smallest of which would require environmentally unfrendly usage of a helluva lot of resources.
Instead, we repair & recycle old ones. If you're a very low mileage user, the mpg trade-off (edit: I mean older cars tend to be greedier) is insignificant by comparison.
[Post edited 1 Mar 2023 10:20]
You're absolutely not the sort of case I was having a go at earlier. Repair/recycle/old are all brilliant words to me. It's the aggregated fact that 'we' are moving towards putting more of these oversized cars on the road at a time when we know it is suicidal for the planet.
It is insane, and my point really was not aimed at any individuals or groups even, just that as a species (and if you like as a consumer group, much as I hate that sort of attitude) we are jointly responsible for creating the demand for producers to produce this sh!t in ever higher numbers.
We, the consumers, need to remove the demand, not just say it's up to the government or regulation or even manufacturers to have a non-profit orientated thought for once. Because they won't will they? It's all those sides of course, but WE need to take responsibility for our bit, and say "no, I'm not going to buy one of those shiny new planet killers."
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 13:57 - Mar 1 by NthQldITFC
You're absolutely not the sort of case I was having a go at earlier. Repair/recycle/old are all brilliant words to me. It's the aggregated fact that 'we' are moving towards putting more of these oversized cars on the road at a time when we know it is suicidal for the planet.
It is insane, and my point really was not aimed at any individuals or groups even, just that as a species (and if you like as a consumer group, much as I hate that sort of attitude) we are jointly responsible for creating the demand for producers to produce this sh!t in ever higher numbers.
We, the consumers, need to remove the demand, not just say it's up to the government or regulation or even manufacturers to have a non-profit orientated thought for once. Because they won't will they? It's all those sides of course, but WE need to take responsibility for our bit, and say "no, I'm not going to buy one of those shiny new planet killers."
I don’t think consumers will change habits unless pressured (carrot or stick, or both) so it’ll have to be achieved through central financial incentives or regulation. It’s unlikely to happen due to industry lobbying of government, but we’re largely selfish when it comes to big shiny boxes on wheels.
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 14:08 - Mar 1 by Swansea_Blue
I don’t think consumers will change habits unless pressured (carrot or stick, or both) so it’ll have to be achieved through central financial incentives or regulation. It’s unlikely to happen due to industry lobbying of government, but we’re largely selfish when it comes to big shiny boxes on wheels.
Some (a few) consumers will change habits through being badgered into actually thinking about the consequences of their choices though, and every convert gives an extra millisecond or two of habitable planet, and an extra tiny chance of averting catastrophic collapse.
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 14:18 - Mar 1 by NthQldITFC
Some (a few) consumers will change habits through being badgered into actually thinking about the consequences of their choices though, and every convert gives an extra millisecond or two of habitable planet, and an extra tiny chance of averting catastrophic collapse.
So boring people about it is my thing.
I loathe and abhor the digitalisation of cars if that’s any help - from having to spend a week’s income on a spare key, to twice in two years having to call out the garage because the electrics had somehow reset themselves so the beggar couldn’t be started - grrr - so missing my old landie that, y’know, you opened up and started by putting a key in the door and ignition!
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 15:10 - Mar 1 by Ryorry
I loathe and abhor the digitalisation of cars if that’s any help - from having to spend a week’s income on a spare key, to twice in two years having to call out the garage because the electrics had somehow reset themselves so the beggar couldn’t be started - grrr - so missing my old landie that, y’know, you opened up and started by putting a key in the door and ignition!
Can’t see the point. I’ve got one of those remote key things and have to keep it in a little wallet and in a box in the house to try and stop it being cloned. If I lose it I suspect I’ll have to donate a kidney to replace it. The good ole key in lock was simple and worked. You could also take the lock/mechanism out and replace/repair it if it broke. No longer!
Mind you, back in the last century in the days of Escort Mk1s etc you could get in virtually any car with any key.
1
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 16:03 - Mar 1 with 327 views
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 15:19 - Mar 1 by Churchman
Can’t see the point. I’ve got one of those remote key things and have to keep it in a little wallet and in a box in the house to try and stop it being cloned. If I lose it I suspect I’ll have to donate a kidney to replace it. The good ole key in lock was simple and worked. You could also take the lock/mechanism out and replace/repair it if it broke. No longer!
Mind you, back in the last century in the days of Escort Mk1s etc you could get in virtually any car with any key.
My first car twtd!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
I would suggest they look at the impact of Internet usage on the climate. That has increased dramatically over the last 10 years, so much used is moving to online but the electric required has be generated. The best thing they could do is turn off the Internet until we can generate enough energy from green sources to power it and then turn the internet back on.
1
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 16:33 - Mar 1 with 308 views
If anything illustrates what a bunch of lemmings we are, it's this. on 16:31 - Mar 1 by BloomBlue
I would suggest they look at the impact of Internet usage on the climate. That has increased dramatically over the last 10 years, so much used is moving to online but the electric required has be generated. The best thing they could do is turn off the Internet until we can generate enough energy from green sources to power it and then turn the internet back on.
See also the electricity for E-cars having to be generated from somewhere!
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
