| The Cobbold Masterplan 11:21 - Apr 6 with 5065 views | bournemouthblue |
I was suspected by his comments last week that Ashton wanted to go over the road with a developed Cobbold which makes sense
It also makes me wonder, given his comments about the ground facing away from the Town, whether he'd want it to be the main Stand essentially, which would be interesting
I don't think there is a need to knock down the Magnus Stand which still can have corporate facilities extended in it technically although they are quite pokey inside I imagine
What they could do is reprofile the top tier if foundations allow and put a new light weight roof on it, which allows more light into the ground.
[Post edited 6 Apr 2023 11:22]
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| The Cobbold Masterplan on 09:36 - Apr 7 with 1062 views | bournemouthblue |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 08:49 - Apr 7 by tivo |
Does anyone know which part of the Car Park(s) the council own and intend to use for the Aquatic center? |
They definitely own the one in the corner opposite Planet Blue, I assume the ones to the left of the NCP car park which is parallel with what was the Drum and Money are also owned by them or one of their arms length companies like Ips Serv? | |
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| The Cobbold Masterplan on 10:42 - Apr 7 with 984 views | stonojnr |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 15:21 - Apr 6 by ITFC_Forever |
There was something MA said last night that intrigued me when he was talking about the ere-build of the Cobbold and how to deal with the road (never mind the fact it's redundant at the moment because of the ridiculous flower beds).... and he suggested tunnelling under it.
That would be pretty cool.... although I'm not sure how that actually allows you to build any further back?
I would suggest they buy the road off the Council and the first part of the car-park, then they can do what they like stand-wise and I could easily see them making that the Main Stand, with the changing rooms and offices etc in that stand, and also incorporating a restaurant / bar.
At the moment, there is the Centre Spot which is currently criminally under-used - when you compare it to Yellows that Norwich have. |
tunnelling, LOL, what has he been reading about the Ipswich underground ?
the pitch is built on the same style of land the road is, if you understand why the pitch is the way it is and the replacement is more expensive than normal, youll understand why tunnelling is never going to be a starter.
the amount of speculation over a tiny comment he made about ground improvements these days is unreal.
they obviously want to modernise the Cobbold stand as its the oldest now, its obviously going to be a cantilever stand if they do that, because that gives you the most capacity and space to do stuff with a smaller footprint and the way modern stands are built.
but to get planning permission to build a cantilever stand like that back across Portman Rd needs the council to buy in, the whole reason the North ended up as it is, is because of those houses in Alderman Road/Sir Alf Ramsey Way, and the stand is built as close as they were allowed to get, which is why its a compromised design.
if you are investing millions building a new stand, you dont want a compromised design, so Ashton wants to work with whatever plans the council have for the land behind the Cobbold stand, its been a multi storey car park, its been a casino, its been a leisure complex, they might suddenly sell it to a developer to build more flats on it, and if they build flats right up to the side of Portman Road, that then impacts what the Cobbold stand could be, in fact anything they build on it might impact what the Cobbold stand could be.
so all he is saying is theyve got some ideas about what they want to do at the club, but need to make sure they have those conversations with the council to ensure the ground doesnt get boxed in, and they ultimately do whats best for both the club and the council, because thats just how you work together in these situations by identifying the potential issues early on so they can be resolved to everyones agreement, not wait till half a new swimming pool is being built and then go, but we wanted to do this instead but now cant because of it. |  | | |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 20:10 - Apr 7 with 905 views | bournemouthblue |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 10:42 - Apr 7 by stonojnr |
tunnelling, LOL, what has he been reading about the Ipswich underground ?
the pitch is built on the same style of land the road is, if you understand why the pitch is the way it is and the replacement is more expensive than normal, youll understand why tunnelling is never going to be a starter.
the amount of speculation over a tiny comment he made about ground improvements these days is unreal.
they obviously want to modernise the Cobbold stand as its the oldest now, its obviously going to be a cantilever stand if they do that, because that gives you the most capacity and space to do stuff with a smaller footprint and the way modern stands are built.
but to get planning permission to build a cantilever stand like that back across Portman Rd needs the council to buy in, the whole reason the North ended up as it is, is because of those houses in Alderman Road/Sir Alf Ramsey Way, and the stand is built as close as they were allowed to get, which is why its a compromised design.
if you are investing millions building a new stand, you dont want a compromised design, so Ashton wants to work with whatever plans the council have for the land behind the Cobbold stand, its been a multi storey car park, its been a casino, its been a leisure complex, they might suddenly sell it to a developer to build more flats on it, and if they build flats right up to the side of Portman Road, that then impacts what the Cobbold stand could be, in fact anything they build on it might impact what the Cobbold stand could be.
so all he is saying is theyve got some ideas about what they want to do at the club, but need to make sure they have those conversations with the council to ensure the ground doesnt get boxed in, and they ultimately do whats best for both the club and the council, because thats just how you work together in these situations by identifying the potential issues early on so they can be resolved to everyones agreement, not wait till half a new swimming pool is being built and then go, but we wanted to do this instead but now cant because of it. |
They did have plans already drawn up for the Cobbold but given Ashton's experience with Stadia, he will probably change that and it sounds like he is in fairness?
It's probably still some time off but it's nice, the idea is being talked about, none the less [Post edited 7 Apr 2023 23:59]
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| The Cobbold Masterplan on 20:36 - Apr 7 with 865 views | The_Major |
The tunnelling thing makes sense I guess - Villa did it with their Trinity Road stand.
17 Trinity Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/giHeWkSMh9JpX7CG8
Would it really matter though if Portman Road itself disappeared from Sir Alf/The Beat down to Churchman Lofts? I mean you'd have a short length from Princes Street for access to the flats, but the days of it being a major thoroughfare are long gone. When Barrack Corner was open, you'd use Portman Road to get to the station if you were coming from Norwich Road, Castle Hill, Whitton etc, but you haven't been able to do that for nearly sixty years, you either go down West End Road or Civic Drive instead.
I think a new Cobbold Stand as the main entrance would be a great idea - it faces the town, after all. The only direction we can't really expand to any great degree is northwards, unless a spot of house buying in Alderman Road takes place. [Post edited 7 Apr 2023 20:37]
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| The Cobbold Masterplan on 22:39 - Apr 7 with 804 views | grow_our_own |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 20:36 - Apr 7 by The_Major |
The tunnelling thing makes sense I guess - Villa did it with their Trinity Road stand.
17 Trinity Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/giHeWkSMh9JpX7CG8
Would it really matter though if Portman Road itself disappeared from Sir Alf/The Beat down to Churchman Lofts? I mean you'd have a short length from Princes Street for access to the flats, but the days of it being a major thoroughfare are long gone. When Barrack Corner was open, you'd use Portman Road to get to the station if you were coming from Norwich Road, Castle Hill, Whitton etc, but you haven't been able to do that for nearly sixty years, you either go down West End Road or Civic Drive instead.
I think a new Cobbold Stand as the main entrance would be a great idea - it faces the town, after all. The only direction we can't really expand to any great degree is northwards, unless a spot of house buying in Alderman Road takes place. [Post edited 7 Apr 2023 20:37]
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The big stadium design fail was not turning Churchmans into a single-tier kop. Portsmouth's is the model. Has closed sides (right from the pitch to the back), has a steep rake, so fans are close to the action, and not a particularly high roof. Has the best accoustics in football. Proper 12th man. Then the new North, which always had to be tiered due to the housing behind, could have accommodated away fans in its lower tier. The upside of having overlapping tiers is the crowd is closer to the action, but every ground needs a home kop. Ideally we could just merge Sir Alf's tiers and convert it into a single. Would lose the overlap, and hence capacity, but would boost atmosphere no end. Capacity would be compensated by bigger Cobbold.
Cobbold is already a decent size (7k seats) and has boxes for commercial revenue. I also like the fact there's almost no deadspace between the stand and the pitch. Modern regulations are overzealous about requiring four metres space between touchline and stand IMO. Distance is an experience and atmosphere killer, just ask West Ham fans. Our side stands' close proximity has never been a problem, and the almost zero runup has the happy side-benefit of restricting the purchase hoof-ball away teams can get on their long-throws - we play football here in Suffolk, your artilliery is ineffective here :-) Just the facilities, legroom, and rear restricted-view seats are a bit naff. I wonder if we can keep enough of the old Cobbold to convince FIFA that's it's not actually a new stand, hence we can't move it further from the pitch, honest guv! [Post edited 7 Apr 2023 22:45]
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| The Cobbold Masterplan on 23:55 - Apr 7 with 733 views | Matt_Netherlands |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 14:26 - Apr 6 by CityBlue |
I think any proposal would be for a large single tier stand that extends over Portman Road - unless they finalise permissions to close the road permanently.
The height would be based on available overhang for the cantilever. Would expect the new stand to house 10k taking overall capacity close to 38k |
A 10k capacity stand taking the capacity to to 38k? Based on that maths, the current Cobbold only holds 2K which isn’t right!
I think at the moment it’s roughly:
Brittania stand: 8k
North: 8k
South: 8k
Cobbold: 6k
If they took the new cobbold to 10k and and then filled in the North stand corner, you could potentially get to just shy of 35k which feels about right if we want any sort of increase. (Personally think 32k is plenty big enough for now!) |  | | |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 00:46 - Apr 8 with 686 views | Ryorry |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 14:25 - Apr 6 by HighgateBlue |
I'm not sure that a wholly new stadium would give us enough of a boost to justify the cost (and disruption). We have a capacity of around 30k now. Going up to 35k now would be nice. It would make it bigger than Southampton, Leicester, and on a par with Boro. I really don't think we need it to be any bigger than that. The reality is that only a very small handful of teams are nailed on for the premier league on a virtually permanent basis, and we will never be in that gang. I can't see that we need more than 35k in that context. Going up to 40k would put us in the same sort of bracket as Villa Park and Stamford Bridge. The prospect of selling that out even 5 seasons out of 10 would be difficult to justify demolishing the whole stadium for, in my view.
Then there's the disruption. The early 80s ground redevelopment didn't exactly help us on the pitch, and neither did that in the early 00s. I'd rather be in Bournemouth's position than Wednesday's. Having said that, a big upgrade on the Cobbold would be proportionate financially, it would be improving the facilities, increasing capacity, and without too much disruption hopefully. Ashton seems to be making the right noises. It may be that if we get to the Prem within 5 years, Gamechanger sell us on and let someone else take on the cost of increasing the capacity. Can't see it happening before then. |
And who wants a soul-less new ground? Always feel it a mistake that old grounds with character & steeped in history made way for plastic bowls like The Riverside, which if you were taken there in your sleep, you'd not know your location from when you woke up.
Yes their finances caused us much angst at the time, but the current SBR & SAR are an inseparable part of our history, like a structural record of that part of our story - I think it'd be very sad if they were simply demolished. I also think they're aesthetically/architecturally pleasing.
There's the matter of intimacy too - too large a stadium can have an adverse effect on atmosphere - limiting capacity to 35K at most would probably be better in terms of us retaining our current atmos. |  |
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| The Cobbold Masterplan on 10:41 - Apr 8 with 536 views | grow_our_own |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 00:46 - Apr 8 by Ryorry |
And who wants a soul-less new ground? Always feel it a mistake that old grounds with character & steeped in history made way for plastic bowls like The Riverside, which if you were taken there in your sleep, you'd not know your location from when you woke up.
Yes their finances caused us much angst at the time, but the current SBR & SAR are an inseparable part of our history, like a structural record of that part of our story - I think it'd be very sad if they were simply demolished. I also think they're aesthetically/architecturally pleasing.
There's the matter of intimacy too - too large a stadium can have an adverse effect on atmosphere - limiting capacity to 35K at most would probably be better in terms of us retaining our current atmos. |
To those who we don't need much bigger, bear in mind that until we went all-seater in 1992, FPR held 38k. And during our peak, we regularly filled it. There are ~1m people within a 40k radius (more than are near Norwich), and Colchester are the only other league side within that catchment area. East Anglia has the second fastest population growth in the UK after London (15.4% since 2002): https://www.plumplot.co.uk/East-of-England-population-changes.html | | | |
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| The Cobbold Masterplan on 10:47 - Apr 8 with 530 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| The Cobbold Masterplan on 20:36 - Apr 7 by The_Major |
The tunnelling thing makes sense I guess - Villa did it with their Trinity Road stand.
17 Trinity Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/giHeWkSMh9JpX7CG8
Would it really matter though if Portman Road itself disappeared from Sir Alf/The Beat down to Churchman Lofts? I mean you'd have a short length from Princes Street for access to the flats, but the days of it being a major thoroughfare are long gone. When Barrack Corner was open, you'd use Portman Road to get to the station if you were coming from Norwich Road, Castle Hill, Whitton etc, but you haven't been able to do that for nearly sixty years, you either go down West End Road or Civic Drive instead.
I think a new Cobbold Stand as the main entrance would be a great idea - it faces the town, after all. The only direction we can't really expand to any great degree is northwards, unless a spot of house buying in Alderman Road takes place. [Post edited 7 Apr 2023 20:37]
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Ashton did say, that he, "likes Villa Park", so thats probably where his thought process is. |  |
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