| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security 10:24 - Jun 28 with 4386 views | Ryorry |
Overruled the security advice of MI6 & House of Lords vetting
committee & (gasp, surely not) repeatedly lied about having done so.
Excellent docu on C4 last night -
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:01 - Jun 28 with 1163 views | Darth_Koont |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 15:45 - Jun 28 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“He’s deeply authoritarian”
Because he kicked out a few racists? What an utter b@stard! |
Evidence?
No, that’s more about his dishonesty. His authoritarian streak is his disregard for democracy and for the top-down control he’s brought into the party.
Sunak and the Tories vs. Starmer and his Labour? I wouldn’t bet on which would be worse but I can definitely say that it’s is an awful choice that in itself sums up how screwed we are. |  |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:02 - Jun 28 with 1162 views | giant_stow |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 15:49 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
Words.
I notice you’d rather posture than consider Oborne’s judgement on Starmer’s dishonesty and deceit. Bearing in mind he’s one of the very few journalists who takes this stuff seriously, I think you and others should. Rather than excusing or ignoring it and then wondering why we have ANOTHER unaccountable, self-serving and anti-democratic government. |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:15 - Jun 28 with 1113 views | Darth_Koont |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 15:44 - Jun 28 by Ryorry |
The primary intention is surely to ensure first gaining power. After that if a big enough majority (at least partially gained through mopping up disenchanted Tories) then you can be more reforming/radical.
No doubt an element of surprise/keeping powder dry + possible double u-turning in there too. What's the point of revealing all now & giving the tories plenty of time to draw up counter-arguments? KM doesn't name his teams to all & sundry 2 days before k/o!
Having said all that, I'd nevertheless be much happier if Andy Burnham were Labour leader. |
Dear oh dear. Spoken like a Brexiteer.
Since when did lying become acceptable in our democracy? | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:16 - Jun 28 with 1109 views | DJR |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 15:59 - Jun 28 by HARRY10 |
That is just being silly. What Starmer intended to do cannot not be held against him when he has not the chance to do anything.
Christ, where the hell have you lost out. Joined the Labour party because of previous pledges. Now he has dropped them, well leave the Party,
To compare those actions with the intentional lies of the fat fraud is absurd. Fat boy neither knew or cared what he was promising, as long as it got him elected.
Starmer is merely stating that what he intended to do previously, he does not now.
So you vote accordingly. Unless you are some Trot enmeshed in a ludicrous, 'vote Labour as they will fail and so everyone will then become a revolutionary' twaddle. |
I suppose the question is whether he ever intended to do some of what he pledged, and I have my doubts. And I may be old fashioned, but I do not subscribe to the view that the end justifies the means.
It is not clear to me, for example, that his pledge to increase tax on the top 5% has been affected by events, but Labour have promised not to increase tax rates.
In contrast, even Ed Miliband promised to restore the 50% top rate tax band, and to introduce a mansion tax.
The upshot, as it seems to me, is that desperately needed increases in public spending (including public sector wages) will be dependent on growth, so the question then arises as to whether Labour will be any better than the Tories at achieving greater growth, although hopefully at least Labour will not fritter away any increased growth on tax cuts.
Finally, just as Labour have suggested they are moving away from House of Lords abolition, I do wonder whether its pledge to abolish the exemption from VAT of private education will survive the inevitable adverse scrutiny it will receive as we get nearer to an election. [Post edited 28 Jun 2023 16:30]
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:21 - Jun 28 with 1092 views | Ryorry |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:15 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
Dear oh dear. Spoken like a Brexiteer.
Since when did lying become acceptable in our democracy? |
You absolute fool.
I voted Remain, have said so frequently, and have been outspokenly, vehemently critical of Brexit on literally hundreds of occasions on here.
You are blinded from being in a dark trench on your own, going by this kind of ignorance/misrepresentation on your part. | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:31 - Jun 28 with 1076 views | Darth_Koont |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 15:31 - Jun 28 by DJR |
I was never a Cultist (and never voted for Corbyn) but voted for Starmer because of his pledges, which many ordinary Labour members like me did too.
I now feel let down, and I do feel questions about his integrity are in order, as Sunak did once again today.
Incidentally, this clip from Margaret Hodge suggests there was an element of calculation, or deceit, in what he was doing.
Incidentally, this looks like another U-turn, and in my view further undermines trust in politicians.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/28/keir-starmer-considers-ditching [Post edited 28 Jun 2023 15:35]
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Good post. Shame it doesn’t get addressed.
He has lied, cheated and stolen from the largely left-wing Labour Party members. That appears to be accepted as a legitimate tactic and desirable result for way too many people inside and outside the Labour Party.
Oh well. It’s not like we need honest politicians with actual ideas and vision. We’ve been doing so well without them ... | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:34 - Jun 28 with 1073 views | Darth_Koont |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:21 - Jun 28 by Ryorry |
You absolute fool.
I voted Remain, have said so frequently, and have been outspokenly, vehemently critical of Brexit on literally hundreds of occasions on here.
You are blinded from being in a dark trench on your own, going by this kind of ignorance/misrepresentation on your part. |
Of course. I only meant you excuse/ignore lies like a Brexiteer. | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:45 - Jun 28 with 1055 views | Dubtractor |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 12:08 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
No, not satirical. A statement of fact. Although I think I said that he’s as much as a liar as Johnson.
Johnson is of course brazen. But Starmer is a serial pledge-breaker and flip-flopper who many are happy to make excuses for or just look the other way. And that’s even without his dishonest approach to how the party is run and how actual left-wingers have been marginalised and smeared by him and his gang.
But just like Brexiteers with their lies, the “centrists” are happy if the lies are about the left or will usher in centre-right policies. |
I can understand why you feel let down by Starmer, or even angry, but your ability to turn every single anti government post into an anti Starmer post is just bloody weird. |  |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:03 - Jun 28 with 1003 views | Ryorry |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:34 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
Of course. I only meant you excuse/ignore lies like a Brexiteer. |
If that's your best argument, you have zero argument/. | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:05 - Jun 28 with 998 views | Ryorry |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:45 - Jun 28 by Dubtractor |
I can understand why you feel let down by Starmer, or even angry, but your ability to turn every single anti government post into an anti Starmer post is just bloody weird. |
Reminds me of someone -
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:06 - Jun 28 with 992 views | Darth_Koont |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 16:45 - Jun 28 by Dubtractor |
I can understand why you feel let down by Starmer, or even angry, but your ability to turn every single anti government post into an anti Starmer post is just bloody weird. |
I didn’t. Someone else brought Starmer and my views on his dishonesty into it.
But generally I have such a problem with inadequate, self-serving and dishonest politics aimed at pushing narrow neoliberal policies that I’ll criticise Starmer et al for the same. | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:08 - Jun 28 with 988 views | Darth_Koont |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:05 - Jun 28 by Ryorry |
Reminds me of someone -
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Doesn’t make sense. | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:15 - Jun 28 with 980 views | Swansea_Blue |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 15:41 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
Boris is more brazen as I’ve said. But Starmer is just as dishonest an operator.
I see that you’re critical but I still think you’re defending the indefensible. Or at least muddying the waters. He has trashed virtually all his leadership campaign on progressive policies and for which he was DEMOCRATICALLY elected on. Even since being leader he’s just made stuff up as he’s gone along – from new “promises” and missions that are increasingly right-wing to how he’s purged members, ignored the Forde report and rigged selections.
He’s deeply authoritarian, anti-democratic and dishonest. And shouldn’t be seen as fit for government – just like many said about Johnson. |
I think I’m trying to understand what he’s up to, rather than deliberately muddying the waters or excusing him. It seems too early to judge his 10 pledges, as he’s not in a position to implement them. Agreed that there are some very worrying signs though (e.g. sanctioning his MPs who supported workers on the picket line; that runs contrary to his pledge).
Maybe it’s naive to give him the benefit of the doubts. I’m 100% convinced a Labour govt would improve the state of things in the country though, even if they wouldn’t necessarily solve problems. I’d prefer better (or only slightly better) over the crap we’re getting from the Tories. But than any of the ‘normal’ parties would be an improvement. |  |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:16 - Jun 28 with 978 views | GlasgowBlue |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 15:28 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
Gmpf.
You’re a man who thinks lying is clever politics. That’s even before we get into your own steaming misrepresentations and antisemitism-weaponising smears when it comes to the Left.
Of course, you’re a Starmer fan. |
Come on Koonters. Time to be honest. The cranks you have been supporting for years on here have accused Starmer of being a state agent planted either by the CIA or the British security service.
Do you agree with them? |  |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:39 - Jun 28 with 960 views | Ryorry |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:08 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
Doesn’t make sense. |
You mean you don't want it to. | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:42 - Jun 28 with 957 views | Ryorry |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:15 - Jun 28 by Swansea_Blue |
I think I’m trying to understand what he’s up to, rather than deliberately muddying the waters or excusing him. It seems too early to judge his 10 pledges, as he’s not in a position to implement them. Agreed that there are some very worrying signs though (e.g. sanctioning his MPs who supported workers on the picket line; that runs contrary to his pledge).
Maybe it’s naive to give him the benefit of the doubts. I’m 100% convinced a Labour govt would improve the state of things in the country though, even if they wouldn’t necessarily solve problems. I’d prefer better (or only slightly better) over the crap we’re getting from the Tories. But than any of the ‘normal’ parties would be an improvement. |
The sanctioning of "his MPs who supported workers on the picket line" was explained at the time -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/27/labours-sam-tarry-joins-rail-wo
(don't shoot the messenger!) | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:57 - Jun 28 with 946 views | Darth_Koont |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:16 - Jun 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Come on Koonters. Time to be honest. The cranks you have been supporting for years on here have accused Starmer of being a state agent planted either by the CIA or the British security service.
Do you agree with them? |
Eh? | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 18:06 - Jun 28 with 923 views | GlasgowBlue |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:57 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
Eh? |
Chris Williamson, Jackie Walker, Tony Greenstein, Alexei Sayle, Graham Bash, David Miller and Ken Loach ( most of whom you have sided with over the years) believe that Starmeris a state agent planted either by the CIA or the British security service.
Do you agree with them or are you starting to distance yourself from their crankery? | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 18:06 - Jun 28 with 923 views | Swansea_Blue |
Thanks. It’s easy to forget there’s a lot of competing issues for them to balance. Supporting strikers seems to be an obvious thing for them to do, but they have to be seen not just as protestors (which would give the Tories an easy attack line) but also as credible governors. IF these strikes wouldn’t occur with Labour in government, that’s obviously a better position than them being in opposition and simply joining picket lines. And the evidence is that the strikes would be less likely to occur- the NHS was looked after better under the last Labour govt than it has been since 2010.
This was my point to Darth really - judge on results not just perceptions of whether they may or may not adhere to promises.
Anyway I’m over thinking it - the Tories have been a disaster for the country and most people who live in it. Of course I’d vote Labour if it gets them out. They would be better. | |
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| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 18:49 - Jun 28 with 892 views | Dubtractor |
| B. Johnson deliberately compromised UK security on 17:06 - Jun 28 by Darth_Koont |
I didn’t. Someone else brought Starmer and my views on his dishonesty into it.
But generally I have such a problem with inadequate, self-serving and dishonest politics aimed at pushing narrow neoliberal policies that I’ll criticise Starmer et al for the same. |
Like I said, I get why you criticise him, I'll be voting Labour as a 'least bad' option as it stands, rather than being inspired by what they are currently offering.
I work in the public sector and have seen first hand what 13 years of the tories has done, and I'm desperate to get them out. | |
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