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I read in the Times today that Labour's Director of Strategy, Deborah Mattinson is behind the volte face on ULEZ, but she is a polling/PR guru with an apparent obsession with the Red Wall, having written a book about it. And it looks like she is behind the rightward drift of Labour more generally.
My view is that the loss in Uxbridge was down more to a lack of enthusiasm for Labour, rather than ULEZ (something Ben Kentish on LBC thought too) but it is convenient to blame ULEZ, and throw Sadiq Khan under a bus, because it takes the heat off any inadequacies of Labour, whether in relation to its campaign in Uxbridge or the Labour offering more generally. I might add that Mattinson has, according to the Times, been at war for some months with Khan over ULEZ, so is no doubt seizing on this as the reason for defeat to strengthen her side of the argument.
The problem it seems to me is that pursuing the Red Wall to the point of obsession merely ends up with voters in other parts of the country, or in other demographics, feeling totally underwhelmed by Labour, which brings with it the risk of apathy and low turnout for Labour, something that a voter in Uxbridge suggested was the case. After all, it is very surprising, after all that Johnson has done, for there not to have been a much bigger backlash there against the Tories.
But free university is probably not a policy that necessarily universally popular. Obviously it plays well with the student vote, but then you end up with low earners subsidising those who go on shall we say ‘more vocational courses’ as well as those who will go on to earn more.
Personally, having been to uni I think only STEM subjects should be ‘free’ and everything else subsidised and capped at a much lower level than it is now (say £2k a year).
I couldn’t disagree more about elevating STEM above other subjects. The creative arts is worth £110BN to the UK economy per year, whereas something like Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals contributes ‘only’ £20BN (still significant of course).
Besides, it’s the non-STEM stuff that’s increasingly important in the modern age, from understanding the media and its control, politics and international relations, keeping people safe online, education, legal expertise around all sorts from trade to immigration to child protection, etc., etc.
I couldn’t disagree more about elevating STEM above other subjects. The creative arts is worth £110BN to the UK economy per year, whereas something like Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals contributes ‘only’ £20BN (still significant of course).
Besides, it’s the non-STEM stuff that’s increasingly important in the modern age, from understanding the media and its control, politics and international relations, keeping people safe online, education, legal expertise around all sorts from trade to immigration to child protection, etc., etc.
Agree, plus the arts enrich the life of everyone whatever job/career they're in (bet there's no-one on this site who doesn't enjoy music, fims, reading etc.) & make us all more rounded people.
I couldn’t disagree more about elevating STEM above other subjects. The creative arts is worth £110BN to the UK economy per year, whereas something like Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals contributes ‘only’ £20BN (still significant of course).
Besides, it’s the non-STEM stuff that’s increasingly important in the modern age, from understanding the media and its control, politics and international relations, keeping people safe online, education, legal expertise around all sorts from trade to immigration to child protection, etc., etc.
Nice to see someone making the case for such degrees and interesting stats too.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Nice to see someone making the case for such degrees and interesting stats too.
It’s probably an unequal stat, as the creative industries covers a huge number of subjects. But it does show there’s some serious value to non-STEM subjects in addition to the social benefits. And as Ryory says, think of all the cultural benefits - tv/film, opera, theatre, Black Adder and The Young Ones, etc.
It’s probably an unequal stat, as the creative industries covers a huge number of subjects. But it does show there’s some serious value to non-STEM subjects in addition to the social benefits. And as Ryory says, think of all the cultural benefits - tv/film, opera, theatre, Black Adder and The Young Ones, etc.
Should have added a soft power & status thing too, winning friends & influencing people all over the world - similar to sport really - think how Seb Coe & Becks were so influential in helping win the 2012 Olympics bid, which when it took place won the UK lots of kudos and trade.
I couldn’t disagree more about elevating STEM above other subjects. The creative arts is worth £110BN to the UK economy per year, whereas something like Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals contributes ‘only’ £20BN (still significant of course).
Besides, it’s the non-STEM stuff that’s increasingly important in the modern age, from understanding the media and its control, politics and international relations, keeping people safe online, education, legal expertise around all sorts from trade to immigration to child protection, etc., etc.
I agree entirely, and particularly dislike the way non-STEM subjects are denigrated.
It appears to be having an effect because less people are taking English degrees and schools are struggling to find English teachers, which is in no one's interests.
I agree entirely, and particularly dislike the way non-STEM subjects are denigrated.
It appears to be having an effect because less people are taking English degrees and schools are struggling to find English teachers, which is in no one's interests.
I couldn’t disagree more about elevating STEM above other subjects. The creative arts is worth £110BN to the UK economy per year, whereas something like Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals contributes ‘only’ £20BN (still significant of course).
Besides, it’s the non-STEM stuff that’s increasingly important in the modern age, from understanding the media and its control, politics and international relations, keeping people safe online, education, legal expertise around all sorts from trade to immigration to child protection, etc., etc.
Slightly cherry picked stats there though, given the engineering industry in the UK Generates ~650bn to the economy, and we need to ramp that up if we want to be world leaders in renewables and other green tech.
Likewise technology is something we do reasonably well (we are no1 in Europe, and no3 in the world by value which is a more appropriate measurement of value than profit). We need to stay ahead of our competitors, and indeed cyber security is a huge growth area given the increasing threats to our (both govt and business) institutions.
I was an NUS delegate when Wes Streeting was campaigning to be President. He and his ilk were awful, you could tell they were politicians in training and believed in little else than becoming a politician.
"He and his ilk"
Of course Streeting came from poverty. His mother was born in a Prison hospital whilst her mother was handcuffed to a bed.
Both his parents were teeneagers at the time of his birth and he grew up in real poverty.
The working class really are a disappointment to the middle class lefties who can afford to experiment with marxist ideology without suffering its disastrous effects.
Of course Streeting came from poverty. His mother was born in a Prison hospital whilst her mother was handcuffed to a bed.
Both his parents were teeneagers at the time of his birth and he grew up in real poverty.
The working class really are a disappointment to the middle class lefties who can afford to experiment with marxist ideology without suffering its disastrous effects.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2023 18:15]
Yep all that free education nonsense is the path to Marxist madness...unless of course you live in Scotland!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Slightly cherry picked stats there though, given the engineering industry in the UK Generates ~650bn to the economy, and we need to ramp that up if we want to be world leaders in renewables and other green tech.
Likewise technology is something we do reasonably well (we are no1 in Europe, and no3 in the world by value which is a more appropriate measurement of value than profit). We need to stay ahead of our competitors, and indeed cyber security is a huge growth area given the increasing threats to our (both govt and business) institutions.
Yeah, as I said is wasn’t an equal comparison as Chemistry is only one part of STEM. My aim wasn’t to make it a competition but rather to highlight there is monetary value to non-STEM subjects, as that’s the main attack line from people in government who want to cut budgets in that area. There are good job opportunities and degrees in this area are also often highly transferable.
Cyber security is a good example, as the social science and legal expertise are key to driving policy change and changing behaviour. The STEM computer science technical side only takes you so far, but anything involving people needs the social sciences. Our cyber security research here at Swansea is lead from the humanities side in collaboration with computer scientist.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we moved away from the STEM definition, as in all areas of research now there’s a much greater emphasis on multidisciplinarity.
Of course Streeting came from poverty. His mother was born in a Prison hospital whilst her mother was handcuffed to a bed.
Both his parents were teeneagers at the time of his birth and he grew up in real poverty.
The working class really are a disappointment to the middle class lefties who can afford to experiment with marxist ideology without suffering its disastrous effects.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2023 18:15]
Sorry Glassers you're right, he was great. It was me that was awful and I shouldn't have judged him on his social background that I had no idea about.
Of course Streeting came from poverty. His mother was born in a Prison hospital whilst her mother was handcuffed to a bed.
Both his parents were teeneagers at the time of his birth and he grew up in real poverty.
The working class really are a disappointment to the middle class lefties who can afford to experiment with marxist ideology without suffering its disastrous effects.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2023 18:15]
Yes, it's definitely down to Marxism that we have hundreds of thousands of people relying on foodbanks in the UK. I'm sure Marxism is to blame for the NHS crumbling and the climate crisis as well. Pretty sure inflation and our huge national debt is all down to Marxism too. Those pesky Marxists with their ideals of equality and workers actually benefiting from the full value of their labour, what a bunch of arseholes.
Yes, it's definitely down to Marxism that we have hundreds of thousands of people relying on foodbanks in the UK. I'm sure Marxism is to blame for the NHS crumbling and the climate crisis as well. Pretty sure inflation and our huge national debt is all down to Marxism too. Those pesky Marxists with their ideals of equality and workers actually benefiting from the full value of their labour, what a bunch of arseholes.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, personally, I don't like calling people on the left Marxists any more than I like calling people on the right fascists, unless of course they are actually Marxists or fascists. But I realise it wasn't you who first used the term on this thread.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, personally, I don't like calling people on the left Marxists any more than I like calling people on the right fascists, unless of course they are actually Marxists or fascists. But I realise it wasn't you who first used the term on this thread.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 9:36]
Well indeed, the left in the UK are mild social democrats who would be considered centrists in many other parts of the world. We don't really have a very active socialist or Marxist movement in the UK at all. Even Corbyn wasn't particularly radical by global standards.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, personally, I don't like calling people on the left Marxists any more than I like calling people on the right fascists, unless of course they are actually Marxists or fascists. But I realise it wasn't you who first used the term on this thread.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 9:36]
Herbie and Blueschev describe themselves as marxists.
The Tories holding Uxbridge surely comes down to the fact that the kind of people who were willing to re-elect Johnson as their MP after he had illegally shut down Parliament haven't moved in the intervening period.
If we get the leaders that mirror us, Uxbridge must have an awful lot of venal, corrupt, self-centred, sociopaths.
Well indeed, the left in the UK are mild social democrats who would be considered centrists in many other parts of the world. We don't really have a very active socialist or Marxist movement in the UK at all. Even Corbyn wasn't particularly radical by global standards.
you could argue thats why we need a realignment of the parties in the UK with
the right of the tories going the UKIP etc to have a right of centre group the left of the tories, the Libs and right of labour having a proper centre party and the left of Labour having a proper socialist party
you could argue thats why we need a realignment of the parties in the UK with
the right of the tories going the UKIP etc to have a right of centre group the left of the tories, the Libs and right of labour having a proper centre party and the left of Labour having a proper socialist party
and PR would help
Nice idea, but in practice everyone's too tribally ingrained as a red or a blue.
Yes, it's definitely down to Marxism that we have hundreds of thousands of people relying on foodbanks in the UK. I'm sure Marxism is to blame for the NHS crumbling and the climate crisis as well. Pretty sure inflation and our huge national debt is all down to Marxism too. Those pesky Marxists with their ideals of equality and workers actually benefiting from the full value of their labour, what a bunch of arseholes.
I'd back Streeting's vision on how to fix the things you have listed, based on his own lived experiences over faux marxists who have spent their lives in academia and social work.
I'd back Streeting's vision on how to fix the things you have listed, based on his own lived experiences over faux marxists who have spent their lives in academia and social work.
Social Workers see things you can't even imagine.
It was probably intervention from Social Workers and Probation Officers a couple of generations back, and then inspirational teachers for him personally, that meant that it was possible for Wes Streeting to get to University.
I'd back Streeting's vision on how to fix the things you have listed, based on his own lived experiences over faux marxists who have spent their lives in academia and social work.
Really ignorant comment re social workers there Glassers.
As a former probation officer & social worker (across the entire range - families on sink estates, families in luxury houses, all ages in prisons establishments, teens with autism, disabled and/or elderly, visual & hearing impaired etc.) I can tell you there's very little of the UK world that you don't see in those jobs.
I'd back Streeting's vision on how to fix the things you have listed, based on his own lived experiences over faux marxists who have spent their lives in academia and social work.
Those damn social workers in their ivory towers! What a bizarre comment.
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