| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. 05:58 - Dec 24 with 3546 views | charlie1 |
….. but there will be few teams who will be able to play the way they need to in order to take advantage.
Leeds high press caused us more problems than others, but mainly because the second press of Ampadu, Kamara and Piroe stopped us playing through Morsy and Luongo.
But that’s some serious pace and technical ability in their front six.
We had to try and by-pass the midfield and play it into Hirst, who was very well marshalled and totally outnumbered most of the time, or tried to hit Burns or Davis from distance and Spence and Gray just stepped up and picked off the pass.
We have had, and will continue to have, a lot of success playing that way and I can’t see McKenna abandoning the system because of one game.
Will be interesting to see what his Plan B is though, as there really didn’t seem to be one yesterday. |  | | |  |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:01 - Dec 24 with 625 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:54 - Dec 24 by Herbivore |
It's not a must win game, ffs. There's nothing to be gained from putting unnecessary pressure on it. It's another game, at home, where we will look to pick up three points. If we do, then great. If we don't, we're at worst 4 points clear of third going into two more favourable looking fixtures. |
Unless the players and management are reading the rambling posts of a Scottish based Ipswich fan, I don't think what i am saying is putting pressure on anyone mate. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:02 - Dec 24 with 622 views | nrb1985 |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 10:40 - Dec 24 by Churchman |
Before yesterday Leeds were ten points behind us. They’d counter attacked well at PR but we’re still hanging on for a good chunk of the second half.
There is nothing wrong with playing our normal game against them. Our normal game has yielded over 50 points before Christmas. The team has belief and ability. So it didn’t work yesterday. Leeds played well, we didn’t. There’s nothing more to it than that.
This bigging up of Leeds, Saints and Leicester is for me OTT. If they were that great they’d be in the PL or at the very least miles ahead of us now. They might be by season’s end but let’s not forget what has got us to where we are.
By all means swallow the line that we have been lucky, not faced anyone yet, been worked out. Plenty of people will be parroting that. But the table doesn’t lie and neither does our record to date.
McKenna has a way of playing. It’s hard for the players and requires a high level of fitness, understanding/cohesion and skill. Against better teams it isn’t going to work every time, but the better we play McKenna’s way, the more unplayable for many teams we will become.
Does the team need strengthening? Of course. Every team does. We have ageing key midfielders (apart from Taylor) and need better support for Hirst. But aside from just wheeling people in, at the back, I see Baggott emerging and I think Humphreys might get some game time too.
Do we need a ‘plan B’. Nope. We just need to execute plan A better. Last season, plenty of people were coming out with ‘no plan B’, ‘been worked out’ when we went through the winter losing a couple of games and drawing others. With the odd addition and basically staying with the method of playing we then destroyed all before us.
The opposition is far stronger this year so I doubt we will repeat that, but I actually think we will get stronger as the season progresses.
We were beaten out of sight yesterday and lost comfortably at WBA. But we’ve had plenty of good performances and results too. While you might learn more from poor results you will learn plenty from all of them. Keep the faith. |
I agree with most of this except the part where you say there’s nothing wrong with playing our normal game against Leeds. Unfortunately the four goals conceded at home and what unfolded yesterday makes that demonstrably untrue.
I would also add that if everybody approached playing Leeds like we did yesterday then they might very well be ahead of most teams.
The frustration is that unless you leave yourself wide open against them like we did yesterday then plenty of teams have taken a point or three even off them. Yesterday was a real missed opportunity imo to get something had we approached the game in a more balanced and measured way.
The way we set up yesterday, in my opinion, gave us the lowest possible chance of getting positive outcome. [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 11:04]
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:05 - Dec 24 with 605 views | Herbivore |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:01 - Dec 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Unless the players and management are reading the rambling posts of a Scottish based Ipswich fan, I don't think what i am saying is putting pressure on anyone mate. |
I've heard rumours that your posts are considered an essential part of our pregame prep. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:08 - Dec 24 with 584 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:05 - Dec 24 by Herbivore |
I've heard rumours that your posts are considered an essential part of our pregame prep. |
FFS Herbie. That was supposed to be a secret. Ashton is going to ban Phil from future pressers now. | |
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| Potd (n/t) on 11:09 - Dec 24 with 584 views | Dyland |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 06:32 - Dec 24 by StevieH |
Agreed.The way we play is no great secret. When people say we’ve been worked out it’s as if everyone’s suddenly realised what we’re up to.
It’s one thing to have ‘worked us out’ but stopping us is quite another.
We came up against a better team yesterday which also contains some very good individual players. However, when we go toe to toe with a lot of teams in this league we have been coming out on top. Kieran is developing and improving this team and he trusts them to follow his systems and patterns of play which, let’s face it, have worked incredibly well.
Our squad is limited, however. They have been fabulous and a joy to watch over the last 18 months but these are new heights for most of them. Many are probably at their performance ceilings performing at the top of the championship and when we come up against very good players they struggle.
This squad is better than many teams in this league and has unity, momentum and belief. Top 2 is still possible.
I know how Man City play, for example, but stopping them is another thing entirely.
Leeds were excellent yesterday. Congratulations to them. We move on [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 7:24]
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:10 - Dec 24 with 578 views | jayessess |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 09:00 - Dec 24 by FrimleyBlue |
We strangely played yesterday like a home game. Nothing at all similar to past away games imo.
Strange strange decision. |
I've seen this idea knocking about, but what exactly were we supposed to do after conceding in the 8th minute?
You can't really retreat into a low block and soak up pressure for long periods when you're losing, you have to try and find a way back into the game, which means committing players to the press and to attacking overloads. |  |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:12 - Dec 24 with 560 views | Churchman |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:02 - Dec 24 by nrb1985 |
I agree with most of this except the part where you say there’s nothing wrong with playing our normal game against Leeds. Unfortunately the four goals conceded at home and what unfolded yesterday makes that demonstrably untrue.
I would also add that if everybody approached playing Leeds like we did yesterday then they might very well be ahead of most teams.
The frustration is that unless you leave yourself wide open against them like we did yesterday then plenty of teams have taken a point or three even off them. Yesterday was a real missed opportunity imo to get something had we approached the game in a more balanced and measured way.
The way we set up yesterday, in my opinion, gave us the lowest possible chance of getting positive outcome. [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 11:04]
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If we’d done what we do as well as we can, we would have hurt Leeds, just like we did at home. Just because we had too many players off form doesn’t change that.
What was the alternative? Change the system and play an MM what we have we hold formation? I can’t think of anything more foolish. Believe in yourself and what you are doing. That’s what McKenna did and so did his team. Nothing wrong in that. Just do it better next time. Evolve the team to suit that. Learn.
It's what has happened in two years of KM and here we sit, half way through the season on 52 points in the Championship. |  | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:15 - Dec 24 with 527 views | ITFCSG |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:10 - Dec 24 by jayessess |
I've seen this idea knocking about, but what exactly were we supposed to do after conceding in the 8th minute?
You can't really retreat into a low block and soak up pressure for long periods when you're losing, you have to try and find a way back into the game, which means committing players to the press and to attacking overloads. |
Look at how the scum reacted after going 1-0 down to us last week. Learn. | | | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:18 - Dec 24 with 515 views | bazza |
I think we’ll give Leicester a run for their money, few individual errors yesterday, we looked a bit sloppy at times , nowhere near our best but created a few chances first half, broadheads shot or chaplins go in, and the game could have been very different , they didn’t and Leeds punished us, but that team will be 100% motivated after that defeat for the Leicester match. |  | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:20 - Dec 24 with 513 views | nrb1985 |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:12 - Dec 24 by Churchman |
If we’d done what we do as well as we can, we would have hurt Leeds, just like we did at home. Just because we had too many players off form doesn’t change that.
What was the alternative? Change the system and play an MM what we have we hold formation? I can’t think of anything more foolish. Believe in yourself and what you are doing. That’s what McKenna did and so did his team. Nothing wrong in that. Just do it better next time. Evolve the team to suit that. Learn.
It's what has happened in two years of KM and here we sit, half way through the season on 52 points in the Championship. |
It’s just not as binary as your second paragraph sorry.
Aside from Pep, who has always had for the most part the best players, every team will adapt the way they play in certain games.
That doesn’t make it defensive or Mick-esque. I was fortunate enough to be at the ‘21 CL final in Porto. Chelsea were by far the inferior team to City going into that game. Tuchel set them up brilliantly, it was a more defensive shape but gave a solid base from which to spring and hurt City.
In the end, City had all the ball but Chelsea had all the chances and ran out worthy 1-0 winners.
I enjoy your posts very much, and have a great deal of respect for how long you’ve followed our club but it’s silly to suggest there was only two ways of playing yesterday - gung ho or McCarthy like low block.
Let’s leave it at that and get behind them against Leicester. Onwards and upwards! | | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:23 - Dec 24 with 491 views | Herbivore |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:12 - Dec 24 by Churchman |
If we’d done what we do as well as we can, we would have hurt Leeds, just like we did at home. Just because we had too many players off form doesn’t change that.
What was the alternative? Change the system and play an MM what we have we hold formation? I can’t think of anything more foolish. Believe in yourself and what you are doing. That’s what McKenna did and so did his team. Nothing wrong in that. Just do it better next time. Evolve the team to suit that. Learn.
It's what has happened in two years of KM and here we sit, half way through the season on 52 points in the Championship. |
I mentioned this yesterday, but that foul on Chaplin for the first goal highlighted a couple of things for me. The first and most obvious is that we're still having to battle with sh!t refs, that was such an obvious foul and he was looking right at it and we've had a lot of similar decisions cost us this season. But that's by the by a bit after going on to lose 4-0.
The other thing it highlighted for me was how the game might have planned out how it stayed at 0-0 for longer. They were pressing very aggressively early on and Struijk was pulled a long way out of position, Chaplin spun him cleverly as he often does and if Struijk doesn't foul him there's a lot of space in behind to potentially exploit. For me, you could argue it's a yellow as he makes no effort to play the ball and snuffs out a potentially dangerous situation as a result. But the hopeless ref somehow fails to give anything. Once they are a goal up, they can afford to drop off and be less aggressive with the press and Struijk and Rodon can sit deep and protect the box with Ampadu and Camara the also dropping and mainly screening and stifling our 10s, leaving us very little space to exploit and enabling them to leave the front four fairly high to exploit breaks themselves.
So essentially our regular game plan didn't work yesterday but that doesn't mean it was the wrong game plan for us. We shot ourselves in the foot (with a big assist from the ref) by conceding early and then having to overcommit at times to manufacture space against a side that otherwise wasn't allowing us much. At 0-0 there'd have been more space for us to work with and we'd have found it easier to hurt them no doubt. Goals change games. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:28 - Dec 24 with 482 views | nrb1985 |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:23 - Dec 24 by Herbivore |
I mentioned this yesterday, but that foul on Chaplin for the first goal highlighted a couple of things for me. The first and most obvious is that we're still having to battle with sh!t refs, that was such an obvious foul and he was looking right at it and we've had a lot of similar decisions cost us this season. But that's by the by a bit after going on to lose 4-0.
The other thing it highlighted for me was how the game might have planned out how it stayed at 0-0 for longer. They were pressing very aggressively early on and Struijk was pulled a long way out of position, Chaplin spun him cleverly as he often does and if Struijk doesn't foul him there's a lot of space in behind to potentially exploit. For me, you could argue it's a yellow as he makes no effort to play the ball and snuffs out a potentially dangerous situation as a result. But the hopeless ref somehow fails to give anything. Once they are a goal up, they can afford to drop off and be less aggressive with the press and Struijk and Rodon can sit deep and protect the box with Ampadu and Camara the also dropping and mainly screening and stifling our 10s, leaving us very little space to exploit and enabling them to leave the front four fairly high to exploit breaks themselves.
So essentially our regular game plan didn't work yesterday but that doesn't mean it was the wrong game plan for us. We shot ourselves in the foot (with a big assist from the ref) by conceding early and then having to overcommit at times to manufacture space against a side that otherwise wasn't allowing us much. At 0-0 there'd have been more space for us to work with and we'd have found it easier to hurt them no doubt. Goals change games. |
Yes and no.
Equally, there was already a warning sign for Leeds when James strayed offside and Leif was stranded upfield. That was within the first 5 mins before their goal that our left back was already 40/50 yards downfield leaving us wide open to a counter against a team that devastated us on the counter in the reverse fixture. | | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:29 - Dec 24 with 474 views | Herbivore |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:28 - Dec 24 by nrb1985 |
Yes and no.
Equally, there was already a warning sign for Leeds when James strayed offside and Leif was stranded upfield. That was within the first 5 mins before their goal that our left back was already 40/50 yards downfield leaving us wide open to a counter against a team that devastated us on the counter in the reverse fixture. |
But that's always a risk, you can't play the way we play with zero risk, it's just not possible. If you make Davis sit along the CBs in a flat back four you invite pressure in different ways and you blunt one of our biggest attacking threats and best outlets. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:35 - Dec 24 with 459 views | nrb1985 |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:29 - Dec 24 by Herbivore |
But that's always a risk, you can't play the way we play with zero risk, it's just not possible. If you make Davis sit along the CBs in a flat back four you invite pressure in different ways and you blunt one of our biggest attacking threats and best outlets. |
Yes fine, I don’t disagree with that but if you’re saying in theory the Chaplin challenge is how the game could have panned out, well in theory we could also have been 1-0 down had Camara played the ball fractionally earlier. | | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:52 - Dec 24 with 432 views | BloomBlue |
You have to be realistic, last season the teams were separated by 2 leagues and Leeds have the premier league parachute payments.
They will naturally have better players than us, but seasons aren't decided by one game. Leeds played Leicester off the park a few weeks ago but Leicester are still 13 points clear of Leeds.
I genuinely think a lot of the Town players were lacking the experience of a big occasion, how many of those Town players would have played in an occasion like that previously? I'm sure many of those Leeds players have played in that type of hyped game in the prem.
It's part of the learning process for a lot of Town players. |  | | |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 12:00 - Dec 24 with 426 views | Herbivore |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:35 - Dec 24 by nrb1985 |
Yes fine, I don’t disagree with that but if you’re saying in theory the Chaplin challenge is how the game could have panned out, well in theory we could also have been 1-0 down had Camara played the ball fractionally earlier. |
The point is at 0-0 both sides, with how they play, are likely to leave some spaces their opponents can exploit whereas once they go 1-0 up they don't have to leave those spaces anymore. We could have set up to not try and attack and just invited pressure but we saw second half when we went damage limitation that we totally blunted any threat from us and invited them on. That wouldn't have ended well either. | |
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| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 12:01 - Dec 24 with 418 views | jayessess |
| I think, to an extent, we’ve been worked out….. on 11:15 - Dec 24 by ITFCSG |
Look at how the scum reacted after going 1-0 down to us last week. Learn. |
What exactly are we supposed to be learning from the Scum's performance at Portman Road?
Across the whole game, Norwich gave up more chances than we did to Leeds yesterday, so it was hardly a peerless defensive performance. We were ahead for precisely 6 minutes, Norwich scored with their first shot after that.
"If you concede, immediately equalise" is not really a lesson, is it? | |
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