| How good do these look at Villa Park? 21:28 - Feb 7 with 8295 views | Mullet |
Would be a great addition at FPR when we go up. |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 17:11 - Feb 8 with 1366 views | Brads |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 16:22 - Feb 8 by Slambo |
I mean, if it's one standing spot per person, then you just go in and stand on a particular spot..? I can't imagine overfilling would be as much of a problem as there's no danger of anybody spilling over the rows with a waste high barrier in front of them. Whenever I see railseated areas on telly it looks relatively loose, i.e not everyone's packed in like sardines, so there would be a bit of fluidity I think. What i'd envisage happening is lads who want to sing would kind of squeeze in next to each other and everyone would even out over the row. To be honest, this would probably still happen even if it was reserved...
But yeah, you're right. No need for all this faff if they just do it properly with normal terracing - perhaps with some modifications like extra crush barriers... |
If the club wanted to try something different, the chances of getting it signed off must be slim though?
The only potential example I can find of plans for a modern terrace is a small one at Derry City but not sure it’s the right design and possibly different law there anyway.
Quote from Culture Secretary re standing here: “We are not reintroducing terraces and only clubs which meet strict safety criteria will be permitted”
Article on gov website goes on to say “under licensed standing, a supporter has to occupy the same area they would take if they were sitting, with a traceable, numbered ticket.” The traceable requirement would probably interfere with it being unreserved. |  | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 17:26 - Feb 8 with 1353 views | Brads |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 16:48 - Feb 8 by Clapham_Junction |
I think when seats are locked up, the capacity is still the same, as it is one place per locked-up seat. The increase in capacity is achieved by removing the seats entirely for non-European matches - as shown in the photos of Cologne's and Dortmund's grounds below.
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The licensing conditions state that seats can’t be locked in the up or down position here, so fans can sit if they wish to. Not sure why you’d want to in a standing area but I noticed they did when I went to a Spurs game. | | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 20:34 - Feb 8 with 1282 views | Mullet |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 09:29 - Feb 8 by ITFC_Forever |
The entire North doesn't stand, just the lower tier.
Then the easiest thing to do would be to introduce safe standing in all the Lower North. |
Yep. Lower North has been dead for decades now bar the honourable exceptions and BA giving it a go.
Making it all safe standing so that they could organise what they want and the quietest can disperse elsewhere. Would be a winner all round I reckon. | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 22:23 - Feb 8 with 1253 views | Slambo |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 17:11 - Feb 8 by Brads |
If the club wanted to try something different, the chances of getting it signed off must be slim though?
The only potential example I can find of plans for a modern terrace is a small one at Derry City but not sure it’s the right design and possibly different law there anyway.
Quote from Culture Secretary re standing here: “We are not reintroducing terraces and only clubs which meet strict safety criteria will be permitted”
Article on gov website goes on to say “under licensed standing, a supporter has to occupy the same area they would take if they were sitting, with a traceable, numbered ticket.” The traceable requirement would probably interfere with it being unreserved. |
God, that's so disheartening reading that. How are these people anywhere near the decision making process with regard to football..? Do they even like the game..??
It's nothing to do with safety - it rarely is - and more to do with power and control. It's interesting, because when I was chatting to the FSA they said the SGSA were no longer the enemy. I think we can deduce from this who they meant. The government want football fans in neat, tidy little rows, closely monitored and not getting too bolshy. The clamour around bringing standing back got too great so they had to do something, and I guess have just given away the most meagre concession they could get away with...
The FSA said it was going to take time to erode the junk legislation around standing areas and it would take a maverick club to push the government on it. Is Ipswich that club? Is any club that club?? Maybe in 5 or 6 years, I dunno, Crystal Palace will successfully convince the government to let them put in a proper terrace, but by then we'll be lumbered with a load of awful railseating and zero desire to spunk a million quid or what have you replacing it... |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 08:28 - Feb 9 with 1152 views | ITFC_Forever |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 22:23 - Feb 8 by Slambo |
God, that's so disheartening reading that. How are these people anywhere near the decision making process with regard to football..? Do they even like the game..??
It's nothing to do with safety - it rarely is - and more to do with power and control. It's interesting, because when I was chatting to the FSA they said the SGSA were no longer the enemy. I think we can deduce from this who they meant. The government want football fans in neat, tidy little rows, closely monitored and not getting too bolshy. The clamour around bringing standing back got too great so they had to do something, and I guess have just given away the most meagre concession they could get away with...
The FSA said it was going to take time to erode the junk legislation around standing areas and it would take a maverick club to push the government on it. Is Ipswich that club? Is any club that club?? Maybe in 5 or 6 years, I dunno, Crystal Palace will successfully convince the government to let them put in a proper terrace, but by then we'll be lumbered with a load of awful railseating and zero desire to spunk a million quid or what have you replacing it... |
"Do they even like the game"?
No, almost certainly not. |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 09:00 - Feb 9 with 1131 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:43 - Feb 7 by MattinLondon |
Ever since the rebuild of the NS, the club have turned a blind eye to fans continuously standing. The only logic to introducing safe-standing would be if the capacity increased but im not sure that that would be the case. |
The capacity wouldn’t increase at all, you still book a ‘seat’ and it still needs to remain safe.
I think that there’s a bit of romanticism attached to the idea, and people think it’ll be like it was pre-Hillsborough and you’ll be able to stand with your mates all together.
You won’t. Unless you all sit together already. |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:27 - Feb 15 with 887 views | Slambo |
I managed to get another contact at the FSA who confirmed that the SGSA is technology neutral and would therefore consider railseating simply one design among many permitted. He seemed surprised at that quote you found (went on to say that it wasn't uncommon for ministers to get things wrong on this matter) and is going to cross reference the Green Guide (massive safety handbook builders and architects refer to when building things) to see if the said quote was based on actual fact and then get back to me. I'd check myself, but would have to buy the guide for a cool 95 quid...
I think it's like what you said earlier - railseating has just become the industry standard. It's the one design familiar to clubs and therefore the simplest option. My hunch also is that the government - backed by the police - is aggressively pushing the railseating model and implying it's the only game in town. Football fans are violent, coked up louts remember. They don't want a mass of them moving freely around a terrace. They're more concerned with power and control than safety...
So yeah, it"s a question of how much Ashton gives a t0ss really. The problem is that he wants the ground to 'earn' 24/7, so it's probably better to have rail seats that can be popped back down if, say, they wanted to put on a concert. But there's no reason why the redevelopment couldn't include a block of terracing as well... | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 23:16 - Feb 15 with 838 views | Brads |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:27 - Feb 15 by Slambo |
I managed to get another contact at the FSA who confirmed that the SGSA is technology neutral and would therefore consider railseating simply one design among many permitted. He seemed surprised at that quote you found (went on to say that it wasn't uncommon for ministers to get things wrong on this matter) and is going to cross reference the Green Guide (massive safety handbook builders and architects refer to when building things) to see if the said quote was based on actual fact and then get back to me. I'd check myself, but would have to buy the guide for a cool 95 quid...
I think it's like what you said earlier - railseating has just become the industry standard. It's the one design familiar to clubs and therefore the simplest option. My hunch also is that the government - backed by the police - is aggressively pushing the railseating model and implying it's the only game in town. Football fans are violent, coked up louts remember. They don't want a mass of them moving freely around a terrace. They're more concerned with power and control than safety...
So yeah, it"s a question of how much Ashton gives a t0ss really. The problem is that he wants the ground to 'earn' 24/7, so it's probably better to have rail seats that can be popped back down if, say, they wanted to put on a concert. But there's no reason why the redevelopment couldn't include a block of terracing as well... |
Interesting…
I wonder how far Town have got on the planning side of things & whether they’ve already got something in mind, also how flexible they’d be etc.
Must be due another fans’ forum soon. I’ll send in a Q when they ask for them. See what MA’s willing to share at this stage.
Trouble is, it’s much easier for them to contact someone like Jon Darch (Ferco seating rep) than to start considering original designs. Like you say, how fussed are they gonna be… | | | |
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