| Our country is really in the gutter 20:55 - Jul 31 with 7796 views | TresBonne |
Just seen it's kicked off at Downing Street tonight too.
Honestly, when will it end. I don't have kids yet but am planning on it in 5-6 years time, and it just makes me wonder - is it actually worth bringing children up in this nation any more?
I log into my social feed on X or Facebook, which I want to use for just looking at football related goodness, and it's constant 'stabbing here' this, 'riot here' that. I even saw one in Christchurch park from today. A sleepy, Suffolk town like Ipswich is not even safe any more.
Large groups of just pure hatred, anger and a lot more, from all walks of life, nationalities, positions on the political spectrum having it out with police and rioting. Constant stabbings and just more horrible things in the news.
It makes me wonder how many common sense, kind, nice, middle-ground people we are leaving in the world. It seems to just be heading in a complete split of opinion all over the place.
Call this the 'positive news story thread' or something.
We were once the greatest nation in the world. Now, we're in disarray. Upsetting.
Social media is playing a huge part in all of this too, a massive problem.
If someone can link me some good news stories they've seen from this week, I'd genuinely appreciate it and it might cheer me up a bit. I haven't read anything in what seems like forever that really makes me smile. [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 21:00]
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:24 - Jul 31 with 1230 views | LuciBlue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:15 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Norway or Denmark, yes, but Sweden has been destroyed by tolerance. |
Apparently there a growing feeling of National Shame in Norway due to the country benefitting from increased oil revenue during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. |  |
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:25 - Jul 31 with 1218 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:18 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
The anger is legitimate, but the way the anger is being directed is not. There is obviously a pattern, it's not a one-off tragic event. The lack of control is the scary part.
Imagine actually having to live in deprived areas where people carry knives regularly. It's very easy for us to condemn people from the comfort of our office chairs. |
So you think that's what the racist hooligans in Southport were protesting against.
Feck me that's offensive |  | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:28 - Jul 31 with 1194 views | Europablue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 21:28 - Jul 31 by BloomBlue |
Media makes it worse. For example I saw my knives being used in the 60 & 70s (and probably 80s) than now. Even at football matches regular usage of knives, ok maybe the stanley knife didn't go deep enough to kill but it was used frequently.
But media broadcast it immediately now.
Many years ago I was told a story from a old boy in a pub in Stowmarket. In the late 50s Stowmarket and Combs boys got into a big fight, one boy was hit with a brick and killed. This old boy made the point that story probably only made it as far as Ipswich, not the rest of the uk, even though someone had been killed. He continued (and I was talking to him in the 80s), if that happened today it would be on the BBC national news that evening.
Whereas NOW in 2024 if that happened, it would be on X etc within seconds with videos from all angles.
But his point still stands, technology and media gives instant news of things happening across the world now, which makes it seem worse. |
We even react to things that aren't even relevant to our country and cultural context. More people are on the street protesting something that happens in America or Gaza than things that directly relate to their everyday lives. |  | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:29 - Jul 31 with 1187 views | LuciBlue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:25 - Jul 31 by reusersfreekicks |
So you think that's what the racist hooligans in Southport were protesting against.
Feck me that's offensive |
You can't simplify the situation in the country today into racists and non-racists. | |
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:35 - Jul 31 with 1159 views | bazza |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:29 - Jul 31 by LuciBlue |
You can't simplify the situation in the country today into racists and non-racists. |
I’d say racists, extremists, and the rest of us poor fu£kers just trying to get on and not get caught in the cross fire. |  | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:37 - Jul 31 with 1150 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:29 - Jul 31 by LuciBlue |
You can't simplify the situation in the country today into racists and non-racists. |
I didn't. What is your view of the violence at the mosque etc today then? | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:42 - Jul 31 with 1114 views | LuciBlue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:37 - Jul 31 by reusersfreekicks |
I didn't. What is your view of the violence at the mosque etc today then? |
Misguided anger. | |
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:45 - Jul 31 with 1089 views | Europablue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:15 - Jul 31 by reusersfreekicks |
Do you live abroad?
If so thank feck for that.
Go rationalise racist violence somewhere else [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 22:22]
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Explaining something is not the same as condoning or agreeing with it.
Actual racism is very rare, it's all about culture.
Put an Indian next to a Pakistani and most people can't distinguish between them, and yet people aren't upset about Sikhs and Hindus.
There are a lot of great Muslims, our very own Captain is a shining example. I believe tithing is a general tenant of Islam and that is a great thing. The problem of Islam in the UK is about people who have not integrated and think that they can continue practices that are not compatible with British society.
People like you calling anyone who has a legitimate concern a bigot and racist are enablers.
Yes, condemn anyone who has been violent or racist, but don't allow that to deflect attention from a real problem and don't enable cowardly politicians who want to swerve the issue and concentrate on people who channel their righteous anger in disgusting ways. | | | |
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:45 - Jul 31 with 1086 views | Mullet |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:42 - Jul 31 by LuciBlue |
Misguided anger. |
They were chanting islamophobic slurs at the people inside, one which is a popular chant of the EDL. How does that link to “misguided anger” over them simply being racists? |  |
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:48 - Jul 31 with 1075 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:42 - Jul 31 by LuciBlue |
Misguided anger. |
Get real ffs
They were EDL bussed in oportunistically to carry out racist violence.
Why attack a mosque? | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:51 - Jul 31 with 1052 views | bazza |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:45 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Explaining something is not the same as condoning or agreeing with it.
Actual racism is very rare, it's all about culture.
Put an Indian next to a Pakistani and most people can't distinguish between them, and yet people aren't upset about Sikhs and Hindus.
There are a lot of great Muslims, our very own Captain is a shining example. I believe tithing is a general tenant of Islam and that is a great thing. The problem of Islam in the UK is about people who have not integrated and think that they can continue practices that are not compatible with British society.
People like you calling anyone who has a legitimate concern a bigot and racist are enablers.
Yes, condemn anyone who has been violent or racist, but don't allow that to deflect attention from a real problem and don't enable cowardly politicians who want to swerve the issue and concentrate on people who channel their righteous anger in disgusting ways. |
To be fair it’s the fevking spanner’s getting pissed up and lobbing bricks at people that deflect the attention from the real issue.. | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:53 - Jul 31 with 1041 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:45 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Explaining something is not the same as condoning or agreeing with it.
Actual racism is very rare, it's all about culture.
Put an Indian next to a Pakistani and most people can't distinguish between them, and yet people aren't upset about Sikhs and Hindus.
There are a lot of great Muslims, our very own Captain is a shining example. I believe tithing is a general tenant of Islam and that is a great thing. The problem of Islam in the UK is about people who have not integrated and think that they can continue practices that are not compatible with British society.
People like you calling anyone who has a legitimate concern a bigot and racist are enablers.
Yes, condemn anyone who has been violent or racist, but don't allow that to deflect attention from a real problem and don't enable cowardly politicians who want to swerve the issue and concentrate on people who channel their righteous anger in disgusting ways. |
You start by dishonestly connecting it with the new Government, and went downhill from there. | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:00 - Jul 31 with 1015 views | Europablue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:22 - Jul 31 by Mullet |
Can you direct me to the new government calling anyone hateful or bigoted?
There was literally a riot attacking police, organised by Neo Nazis using duff information and lies to stir up racial tensions and violence. Whilst using the horrific and shocking deaths of kids as an excuse.
How are you justifying that “anger” exactly? |
Well the new government is looking at banning the EDL. I don't know if that is reasonable or not, but I know the kinds of people who join organizations like that. They are probably misguided, but they are reacting to terrible things happening and feeling like they don't recognize their own country any more.
Why are there tensions in the first place? There is clearly a problem to be addressed.
I truly believe that a whole lot of people have a childish understanding of the world, like there are super heroes and supervillains. There is no solving problems when people think like that.
It is very easy to justify the anger that a lot of people have about these horrific murders, terrorist attacks, rape gangs, the murder of Sarah Everard. Just because people express legitimate anger in horrible ways, it doesn't negate the anger. I'm not following the specific cases. Obviously, I'm not condoning any violence, riots, hateful comments, or anything like that. All I'm asking is that we be allowed to discuss these issues and try to address them peacefully, because when people feel like they aren't being heard then they will get violent. | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:02 - Jul 31 with 998 views | Europablue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:25 - Jul 31 by reusersfreekicks |
So you think that's what the racist hooligans in Southport were protesting against.
Feck me that's offensive |
That's what you said, or you wish I said so that you can make me into a hate figure so you can feel good about yourself. | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:03 - Jul 31 with 996 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:00 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Well the new government is looking at banning the EDL. I don't know if that is reasonable or not, but I know the kinds of people who join organizations like that. They are probably misguided, but they are reacting to terrible things happening and feeling like they don't recognize their own country any more.
Why are there tensions in the first place? There is clearly a problem to be addressed.
I truly believe that a whole lot of people have a childish understanding of the world, like there are super heroes and supervillains. There is no solving problems when people think like that.
It is very easy to justify the anger that a lot of people have about these horrific murders, terrorist attacks, rape gangs, the murder of Sarah Everard. Just because people express legitimate anger in horrible ways, it doesn't negate the anger. I'm not following the specific cases. Obviously, I'm not condoning any violence, riots, hateful comments, or anything like that. All I'm asking is that we be allowed to discuss these issues and try to address them peacefully, because when people feel like they aren't being heard then they will get violent. |
What an obnoxious miserable apologist for bigotry you are.
Straight out of the Farage playbook. | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:06 - Jul 31 with 983 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:45 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Explaining something is not the same as condoning or agreeing with it.
Actual racism is very rare, it's all about culture.
Put an Indian next to a Pakistani and most people can't distinguish between them, and yet people aren't upset about Sikhs and Hindus.
There are a lot of great Muslims, our very own Captain is a shining example. I believe tithing is a general tenant of Islam and that is a great thing. The problem of Islam in the UK is about people who have not integrated and think that they can continue practices that are not compatible with British society.
People like you calling anyone who has a legitimate concern a bigot and racist are enablers.
Yes, condemn anyone who has been violent or racist, but don't allow that to deflect attention from a real problem and don't enable cowardly politicians who want to swerve the issue and concentrate on people who channel their righteous anger in disgusting ways. |
Intellectual hogwash as per.
I was condemning the racist thugs in Southport. Where were the righteous protests then?
It is you who enable racial violence with justification and rationalisation.
What do you want the so called cowardly politicians to do? Go Enoch powel.
Superficial intellectualisation to distract from racist violence is pretty disgusting | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:07 - Jul 31 with 969 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:00 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Well the new government is looking at banning the EDL. I don't know if that is reasonable or not, but I know the kinds of people who join organizations like that. They are probably misguided, but they are reacting to terrible things happening and feeling like they don't recognize their own country any more.
Why are there tensions in the first place? There is clearly a problem to be addressed.
I truly believe that a whole lot of people have a childish understanding of the world, like there are super heroes and supervillains. There is no solving problems when people think like that.
It is very easy to justify the anger that a lot of people have about these horrific murders, terrorist attacks, rape gangs, the murder of Sarah Everard. Just because people express legitimate anger in horrible ways, it doesn't negate the anger. I'm not following the specific cases. Obviously, I'm not condoning any violence, riots, hateful comments, or anything like that. All I'm asking is that we be allowed to discuss these issues and try to address them peacefully, because when people feel like they aren't being heard then they will get violent. |
Jesus
(Sorry, you deserve more of a reply than that, but I haven’t got the patience now. Most of that makes me feel, I don’t know, sad, disappointed maybe. I don’t recognise any of that as a rational way to behave. I might have a go at responding tomorrow if I can be bothered). [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 23:12]
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:09 - Jul 31 with 959 views | Europablue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:45 - Jul 31 by Mullet |
They were chanting islamophobic slurs at the people inside, one which is a popular chant of the EDL. How does that link to “misguided anger” over them simply being racists? |
Islamophobia just means being rude about a religion, right?
I don't agree with saying horrible things about someone's religion to be rude, but we are still allowed to criticize ideas, so we can't give special protection to people who hold certain beliefs to not be offended.
Someone is not automatically racist if they say unkind things about a religion.
I didn't hear any of the things that were said, so I have no opinion on that, I'm just commenting in a general sense. | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:09 - Jul 31 with 956 views | Mullet |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:00 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Well the new government is looking at banning the EDL. I don't know if that is reasonable or not, but I know the kinds of people who join organizations like that. They are probably misguided, but they are reacting to terrible things happening and feeling like they don't recognize their own country any more.
Why are there tensions in the first place? There is clearly a problem to be addressed.
I truly believe that a whole lot of people have a childish understanding of the world, like there are super heroes and supervillains. There is no solving problems when people think like that.
It is very easy to justify the anger that a lot of people have about these horrific murders, terrorist attacks, rape gangs, the murder of Sarah Everard. Just because people express legitimate anger in horrible ways, it doesn't negate the anger. I'm not following the specific cases. Obviously, I'm not condoning any violence, riots, hateful comments, or anything like that. All I'm asking is that we be allowed to discuss these issues and try to address them peacefully, because when people feel like they aren't being heard then they will get violent. |
So the government haven’t done that then? They are possibly using existing laws about radicalisation to counter a group who are openly violent and racist which you are expressing sympathy for those choosing to participate with?
The “tensions” were meant to be a reaction the shocking murder of children, we now see coordinated copycat riots in other areas of the country breaking out. I have no idea what your comic book analogy is meant to do here, or how it answers the prior claims you made.
Are you really comparing the anger of women protesting the murder of Sarah Everard to what we saw last night? Did those women no longer recognise their country? Or did they recognise misogyny, male violence and risk all too well?
When did “rape gangs” get chucked into this argument? Apart from the fact Yaxley Lennon and his ilk nearly saw those men walk free because he tried to make money off the case, the only parallel is that he incited similar “protests” and a tenuous link to child protection which you don’t seem to have made here either.
Would it be fair to say your previous (edit) post (not tweet )wasn’t at all accurate and you are conflating opinions you like and hold, with filling in the gaps yourself and presenting them as facts? [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 23:15]
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:13 - Jul 31 with 925 views | Mullet |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:09 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Islamophobia just means being rude about a religion, right?
I don't agree with saying horrible things about someone's religion to be rude, but we are still allowed to criticize ideas, so we can't give special protection to people who hold certain beliefs to not be offended.
Someone is not automatically racist if they say unkind things about a religion.
I didn't hear any of the things that were said, so I have no opinion on that, I'm just commenting in a general sense. |
No, they were being offensive and provocative to people who actually live in Southport and by that fact, probably have as much reason as anyone to be shocked and appalled at what happened there. It also had nothing to do with any of them, so becoming a target for hate, abuse and having their dignity removed is not justifiable.
If you don’t know what was said why are defending it exactly? | |
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:13 - Jul 31 with 924 views | Europablue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 22:51 - Jul 31 by bazza |
To be fair it’s the fevking spanner’s getting pissed up and lobbing bricks at people that deflect the attention from the real issue.. |
I agree with that, just that it isn't just them. Anyway, those aren't the types of people trying to find a reasonable solution. We can agree that there are bad actors, but I think we all want social tensions to be improved. The answer is integration and mixing with people who are different from you in many ways, including the political views you hold. | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:14 - Jul 31 with 917 views | positivity |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:09 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Islamophobia just means being rude about a religion, right?
I don't agree with saying horrible things about someone's religion to be rude, but we are still allowed to criticize ideas, so we can't give special protection to people who hold certain beliefs to not be offended.
Someone is not automatically racist if they say unkind things about a religion.
I didn't hear any of the things that were said, so I have no opinion on that, I'm just commenting in a general sense. |
you should know as well as anyone that islamophobia (or anti-semitism) isn't about being rude to a religion. if not, educate yourself
either way, stop appeasing racists | |
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:18 - Jul 31 with 892 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:13 - Jul 31 by Mullet |
No, they were being offensive and provocative to people who actually live in Southport and by that fact, probably have as much reason as anyone to be shocked and appalled at what happened there. It also had nothing to do with any of them, so becoming a target for hate, abuse and having their dignity removed is not justifiable.
If you don’t know what was said why are defending it exactly? |
I can hazard a guess.... | | | |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:24 - Jul 31 with 869 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:09 - Jul 31 by Europablue |
Islamophobia just means being rude about a religion, right?
I don't agree with saying horrible things about someone's religion to be rude, but we are still allowed to criticize ideas, so we can't give special protection to people who hold certain beliefs to not be offended.
Someone is not automatically racist if they say unkind things about a religion.
I didn't hear any of the things that were said, so I have no opinion on that, I'm just commenting in a general sense. |
“Just means being rude”.
Islamophobia is a hate crime, minimum sentence 6 months, but can be much more depending on the details of the crime. Seriously, try to learn about this and start questioning your sources. | |
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| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:27 - Jul 31 with 850 views | Europablue |
| Our country is really in the gutter on 23:13 - Jul 31 by Mullet |
No, they were being offensive and provocative to people who actually live in Southport and by that fact, probably have as much reason as anyone to be shocked and appalled at what happened there. It also had nothing to do with any of them, so becoming a target for hate, abuse and having their dignity removed is not justifiable.
If you don’t know what was said why are defending it exactly? |
Defending what? You will have to quote me on something you think that I have said because I feel like you are plucking that out of thin air.
We should take it as read that no-one supports attacking a mosque, which is violence against peaceful people and riots and attacking police are both bad.
I don't like the concept of "Islamophobia" it is basically saying that you can't have an opinion on something and you can't be rude. If you are not legally permitted to be rude, then we have no freedom. We have social punishments for people who say horrible things in that we don't associate with people.
If you were my flatmate and our other flatmate stole my milk, my anger would be justified. If I blamed you for something you didn't do, that would not be legitimate, if I got violent towards you, then that would be even less legitimate.
Anger needs somewhere to go and in a healthy society we should be able to discuss things rather than get violent. Please tell me if there is anything specific you take issue with. I think you and most posters on this forum are open-hearted and sincere. | | | |
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