| A disappointing & frustrating month 08:10 - Aug 9 with 9107 views | Len_Brennan |
It's just a week to the big Premier League kickoff, with us in the early Saturday game. I think it is fair to say that we are far less prepared, in terms of squad size, recruitment in key positions & therefore early integration of some important new players into the McKenna system & culture pre-season, that was seen as vital to us getting off a good start again this season.
It's pretty much a whole month now since Greaves & Delap signed, both of who.are very good additions, but the Philogene saga & ultimate disappointment at that time seemed to start off a recruitment wobble that has seen us miss out on a number of credible targets & get ourselves dragged through some unseemly, & at times almost desperate unrequited attempts at transfer dealing. The debacle when sending out an u21 side to play Borussia, as they actively scrambled to get alternative opposition, was a clear an indication of how far behind where we expected to be at that point as tnere could be - we are now a further week on & no further key signing has been added in the meantime (with respect to Townsend, a reserve LB who had just come in).
We are now getting linked to players that clearly weren't high on our list of targets last May & we have spent 4 weeks publically haggling over a decent Championship player, who would not really be seen a starter if we had the squad we hoped/expected to have.
Topped up with the injuries to Broadhead & Hirst, the post operation status of Clarke & Al Hamadi, and the still returning to fitness situations for Hutchison & Burns, we are surprisingly far from ideally prepared going into a Premier League season.
On the plus side of course, we have a great manager, continuity, a wonderful belief & team spirit, plus a work ethic & resiliance that will be second to none.
We also still have that last week before kickoff & then the rest of the month before the window 'slams shut'; we need to do some serious business in that time I fear, or our team spirit, belief & resiliance could take a hit, for the first time under this ownership & management team.
Discuss. |  | | |  |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:36 - Aug 9 with 1122 views | jayessess |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:26 - Aug 9 by Kropotkin123 |
Muric, Greaves, Johnson and Delap (given Hirst's injury) will likely start. I make it 7 without any injuries.
Would be nice to have SS in so he can join from the bench.
CM cover, having lost Travis, is the biggest concern for me. Ideally we should be getting someone we think can outperform Luongo. |
Certainly do need another CM and given that we use 7-8 forwards in almost every game, we're certainly 2 short there. If we spend serious money getting 3 for those slots I think signings after that will be a case of diminishing returns.
No rush now though, they're too late to make pre-season and I can't see us signing anyone in the next week who really moves the dial for those first two games. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:56 - Aug 9 with 1065 views | Len_Brennan |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:02 - Aug 9 by BlueBoots |
I don't get this urgency that some people have for players to be signed for the Liverpool game - there are three weeks until the transfer window closes, not one. The players we've signed so far could potentially be at the club for 5-10 years; we've no doubt got targets and back-ups for the positions we are still recruiting, so if we have the chance to land a first choice by waiting 2 more weeks (who could also be at the club for years to come), why would we bring in an inferior player just for the sake of a couple of games that they're probably not going to be up to speed for anyway?
The opening games against 2 teams that are going to be tough propositions anyway aren't going to define our season or the future of the club; getting bodies through the door to as you put it "beef up the squad" is something to look at towards deadline day after using all the time available to recruit the best players we can who will be part of a long term plan. |
I'm not so sure that is true; ok a loss to Liverpool or Man City on its own, by any club, carries no shame or surprise, but we have been a side driven on by success, confidence, togetherness, wins & goals over the last 2 years.
I don't view our 2 opening games as 'free hits' - in fact when the fixtures came out I was quite pleased we had them up first, post Euros & other international tournaments, so I saw us possibly picking up 2 or even 4 points from those matches - as we need a decent start given how strong the Premier League is.
We are used to winning, & certainly not used to losing; so the prospect of losing 2 in a row, and possibly losing them heavily - look what Leeds, a side with decent but lower level PL players, did to us when we weren't quite up to our best last year - could affect us in a psychological manner that we then take into subsequent 'easier' games.
When you are down at the bottom of the table early on, it can be hard to pull yours3lf back out of it. Kieran McKenna will earn his chops this season, as will Mark Ashton. | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 17:08 - Aug 9 with 1033 views | Vegtablue |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:09 - Aug 9 by jayessess |
The five that stayed up:
Leeds 8
Brentford 7
Fulham 11
Bournemouth 6
Forest 23
I assume we're not intending to model ourselves on Forest.
The issue isn't just "middling Championship players" that don't improve you, it's also those £5-10m signings from other European leagues and the unproven young players at other Premier League clubs.
How many of Burnley's Summer signings last year were worthwhile? Maybe 3 (Berge, Odobert and O'Shea).
Then you look at Norwich signing 11 players in their last brief sojourn in the PL. Did it do them much good? [Post edited 9 Aug 2024 16:28]
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What I believe the numbers demonstrate is that double-digit summer arrivals is a realistic target for newly promoted clubs. Many clubs have shown themselves capable of processing this much business, with mixed results. In Bournemouth's first PL season they made 14 summer signings. Brighton made 12. Palace made 18 in the first summer of their current PL stint. Wolves made 13 at the beginning of their latest stint. Villa signed 12. These are all big success stories, in addition to Forest's 23 and Fulham's 11.
I don't raise any examples to suggest there's a science to this aha; ultimately you sign as many or as few as you feel is necessary to build a competitive squad*, within your budget constraints. Plenty before us have shown that double-digit signings was realistic for them though, so I'm unsure why it is or was always unrealistic for us. Do you believe that's because our scouting infrastructure wasn't or isn't ready for the speed of progress, or that we're a less attractive destination than others clubs, or rather that you feel our squad began this summer in better shape and so less arrivals were required?
I believe we had a better squad last year than many gave us credit for, so our success wasn't the consequence of McKenna's magic alone. However, in performances and results against the best sides I do think we saw the squad's limitations. We need to convert a good Championship team into a just-about-PL one for me, with McKenna then able to make the difference, and I think we started the summer targeting half a squad, which would have put us in good company.
*More often you don't sign as many as you originally felt you needed, due to a tricky transfer window. [Post edited 9 Aug 2024 17:25]
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 18:35 - Aug 9 with 912 views | cressi |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 09:53 - Aug 9 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Still a week to go. So I'm hoping that we can have a CM and left sided player in by Liverpool if only to beef up the squad.
As things stand we are sending McKenna to a gunfight with a knife. |
More like a plastic spoon. | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 18:36 - Aug 9 with 904 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:02 - Aug 9 by BlueBoots |
I don't get this urgency that some people have for players to be signed for the Liverpool game - there are three weeks until the transfer window closes, not one. The players we've signed so far could potentially be at the club for 5-10 years; we've no doubt got targets and back-ups for the positions we are still recruiting, so if we have the chance to land a first choice by waiting 2 more weeks (who could also be at the club for years to come), why would we bring in an inferior player just for the sake of a couple of games that they're probably not going to be up to speed for anyway?
The opening games against 2 teams that are going to be tough propositions anyway aren't going to define our season or the future of the club; getting bodies through the door to as you put it "beef up the squad" is something to look at towards deadline day after using all the time available to recruit the best players we can who will be part of a long term plan. |
I take your point and I certainly don't expect wins in our first 2. But idk the idea that Morsy's partner for a premier league opener will be Jack Taylor, who McKenna didn't fancy at all last season to play in centre midfield and was playing behind the striker late on in the season, and Luongo who I love but his legs were struggling the back end of last year really scares me.
But tbf I am a big pessimist anyway as much as I try not to be. I was convinced Huddersfield would beat us 1-0 on promotion day last season. So im sure I am wrong. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 19:35 - Aug 9 with 824 views | GlasgowBlue |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 09:53 - Aug 9 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Still a week to go. So I'm hoping that we can have a CM and left sided player in by Liverpool if only to beef up the squad.
As things stand we are sending McKenna to a gunfight with a knife. |
I think we'll be in the game for the first 60 minutes but our lack of options from the bench, something that has been our super power over the last two seasons, could be our undoing. Liverpool will be able to give that bit extra with twenty to go. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 07:16 - Aug 10 with 704 views | BlueBoots |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:56 - Aug 9 by Len_Brennan |
I'm not so sure that is true; ok a loss to Liverpool or Man City on its own, by any club, carries no shame or surprise, but we have been a side driven on by success, confidence, togetherness, wins & goals over the last 2 years.
I don't view our 2 opening games as 'free hits' - in fact when the fixtures came out I was quite pleased we had them up first, post Euros & other international tournaments, so I saw us possibly picking up 2 or even 4 points from those matches - as we need a decent start given how strong the Premier League is.
We are used to winning, & certainly not used to losing; so the prospect of losing 2 in a row, and possibly losing them heavily - look what Leeds, a side with decent but lower level PL players, did to us when we weren't quite up to our best last year - could affect us in a psychological manner that we then take into subsequent 'easier' games.
When you are down at the bottom of the table early on, it can be hard to pull yours3lf back out of it. Kieran McKenna will earn his chops this season, as will Mark Ashton. |
So what you're saying is that 2 seasons back we should have signed Gassan Ahadme (or a similar quality player) late July so they were in the squad for the Bolton game, rather than signing that player on deadline day because we spent the month of August trying to sign George Hirst and failed?
We have our "one game at a time" mantra - the points we can win against Liverpool are exactly the same as the ones available against Bournemouth later in the season; using the full transfer window could make the difference between us playing 38 games with a Gassan Ahadme or 35 games with a George Hirst. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 08:07 - Aug 10 with 665 views | Len_Brennan |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 07:16 - Aug 10 by BlueBoots |
So what you're saying is that 2 seasons back we should have signed Gassan Ahadme (or a similar quality player) late July so they were in the squad for the Bolton game, rather than signing that player on deadline day because we spent the month of August trying to sign George Hirst and failed?
We have our "one game at a time" mantra - the points we can win against Liverpool are exactly the same as the ones available against Bournemouth later in the season; using the full transfer window could make the difference between us playing 38 games with a Gassan Ahadme or 35 games with a George Hirst. |
You lost me at "So what you're saying is".
What I actually said is all there in black & white. | | | |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 08:21 - Aug 10 with 648 views | BlueBoots |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 08:07 - Aug 10 by Len_Brennan |
You lost me at "So what you're saying is".
What I actually said is all there in black & white. |
As was the point I made about us using the full transfer window to sign the best players possible, to which you said "I'm not so sure that is true" | |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 08:39 - Aug 10 with 606 views | Len_Brennan |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 08:21 - Aug 10 by BlueBoots |
As was the point I made about us using the full transfer window to sign the best players possible, to which you said "I'm not so sure that is true" |
To which I fully elaborated, rather than looking to reword what you said into something I wanted you to say, so that I could reply to a strawman. | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:16 - Aug 10 with 525 views | Wakh |
Not sure I agree with all of that, maybe a few points. I think we have some interesting targets who are hovering in that ‘loan or sell’ category and clubs are taking a look at them in pre-season delaying our potential business.
A couple of rumoured targets have done really well and that might not help our cause. I think it’s a more drawn out game shopping in the “those with potential” market as the competition is intense and often comes with bickering within.
My concern is if we don’t perform well from day one those targets may be swayed into choosing other options.
I don’t think we are chasing downgrades on original targets either. We were always going to need a few more numbers and we are trying to get a few squad options through the door and these are likely to be of a type that generates news articles.
I hope we get sorted soon though I must admit | | | |
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