| A disappointing & frustrating month 08:10 - Aug 9 with 9132 views | Len_Brennan |
It's just a week to the big Premier League kickoff, with us in the early Saturday game. I think it is fair to say that we are far less prepared, in terms of squad size, recruitment in key positions & therefore early integration of some important new players into the McKenna system & culture pre-season, that was seen as vital to us getting off a good start again this season.
It's pretty much a whole month now since Greaves & Delap signed, both of who.are very good additions, but the Philogene saga & ultimate disappointment at that time seemed to start off a recruitment wobble that has seen us miss out on a number of credible targets & get ourselves dragged through some unseemly, & at times almost desperate unrequited attempts at transfer dealing. The debacle when sending out an u21 side to play Borussia, as they actively scrambled to get alternative opposition, was a clear an indication of how far behind where we expected to be at that point as tnere could be - we are now a further week on & no further key signing has been added in the meantime (with respect to Townsend, a reserve LB who had just come in).
We are now getting linked to players that clearly weren't high on our list of targets last May & we have spent 4 weeks publically haggling over a decent Championship player, who would not really be seen a starter if we had the squad we hoped/expected to have.
Topped up with the injuries to Broadhead & Hirst, the post operation status of Clarke & Al Hamadi, and the still returning to fitness situations for Hutchison & Burns, we are surprisingly far from ideally prepared going into a Premier League season.
On the plus side of course, we have a great manager, continuity, a wonderful belief & team spirit, plus a work ethic & resiliance that will be second to none.
We also still have that last week before kickoff & then the rest of the month before the window 'slams shut'; we need to do some serious business in that time I fear, or our team spirit, belief & resiliance could take a hit, for the first time under this ownership & management team.
Discuss. |  | | |  |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:37 - Aug 9 with 2080 views | SitfcB |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 09:53 - Aug 9 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Still a week to go. So I'm hoping that we can have a CM and left sided player in by Liverpool if only to beef up the squad.
As things stand we are sending McKenna to a gunfight with a knife. |
Same was probably said last year.
If anyone can win a gunfight with a knife he could.
I reckon even if we sign some before the Liverpool game, what we have now will be starting. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:41 - Aug 9 with 2070 views | bsw72 |
Very few of us know what has been going on behind the scenes - I rarely believe anything in the national press as this is usually "leaked" by agents etc to drum up interest.
We obviously want good players of a specific type / character and clubs are not willing to let these good players go cheaply. I am glad we are not panic buying, but agree we are short of cover with the injuries/surgery recovery.
It would have been great to get the players in early but it was never going to be that easy, but we are stronger now than we were in May, just not yet strong enough. We have 3 weeks and counting.
I also think the club has had to balance the focus on the club infrastructure, building work, ticket management process etc etc.
The rapid success of the club over the last 24 months has meant that rather than being able to build for success over a 3-4 year period as we did with the playoff failures/success in 1997-2000, everything is having to be done in a 10 week program of work to get ready for Premier League. |  | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:47 - Aug 9 with 2024 views | BlueOura |
"We are now getting linked to players that clearly weren't high on our list of targets last May"
This is the only bit I would challenge you on as I don't think we can possibly know that. Otherwise I agree with the general gist of your post. We are definitely short on both numbers and quality going into the Liverpool game, ( as it stands ) and I think it is fair to say it has been a disappointing and frustrating month.
I am very surprised that we are still getting linked with defenders and not CM and attacking players and it concerns me that we don't seem to making big moves towards improving the CM position. As much as we all love Mass, it is very obvious that he is going to struggle for pace and mobility at Prem level. Not sure Taylor is really the answer either.
Of course we don't know what is going on behind the scenes so i will wait until the window is closed before making too much of a judgement, but for me we still have an awful lot of business to do to make us truly competitive. |  | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:52 - Aug 9 with 1995 views | J2BLUE |
Every summer people are surprised that doing business takes time.
I guarantee you are not more frustrated than Ashton and McKenna. They could easily switch away from our targets to get people in the door. That's not their way thankfully. If it was we would not have waited for Moore in January and we might be preparing for a game tomorrow.
Everything will come together. There's not one club in the 92 who aren't looking for several additions. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:52 - Aug 9 with 1986 views | Bobbychase |
Quite a lot of assumptions in that post. None of us have any idea what is going on behind the scenes, and it's been that way since Ashton became CEO. But nobody seems to learn |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:55 - Aug 9 with 1927 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:37 - Aug 9 by SitfcB |
Same was probably said last year.
If anyone can win a gunfight with a knife he could.
I reckon even if we sign some before the Liverpool game, what we have now will be starting. |
"If anyone can win a gunfight with a knife he could" I do actually agree with this bit, and my hope of us staying up is all on KM. I think he is more than smart enough to not make the mistakes the promoted managers did last season.
The comparison to last season though in terms of squad I just completely reject. This is 100x harder and maybe then some. Im Keeping the faith tho. Even if it is scary. [Post edited 9 Aug 2024 10:56]
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:37 - Aug 9 with 1816 views | portmanking |
I don't see why anyone can disagree with the OP, really.
McKenna said 3 weeks ago that we needed "lots" more bodies to give us a chance. All we've got through the door since is a back-up left back. | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:46 - Aug 9 with 1771 views | hype313 |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:37 - Aug 9 by portmanking |
I don't see why anyone can disagree with the OP, really.
McKenna said 3 weeks ago that we needed "lots" more bodies to give us a chance. All we've got through the door since is a back-up left back. |
Thought Ryan Kent was a done deal? |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:48 - Aug 9 with 1750 views | portmanking |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:46 - Aug 9 by hype313 |
Thought Ryan Kent was a done deal? |
Was led to believe so by the same people who've given me info in the past! | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:53 - Aug 9 with 1713 views | jayessess |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:55 - Aug 9 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
"If anyone can win a gunfight with a knife he could" I do actually agree with this bit, and my hope of us staying up is all on KM. I think he is more than smart enough to not make the mistakes the promoted managers did last season.
The comparison to last season though in terms of squad I just completely reject. This is 100x harder and maybe then some. Im Keeping the faith tho. Even if it is scary. [Post edited 9 Aug 2024 10:56]
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Part of that 100x harder is the transfer business, isn't it? We're trying to recruit at the same level as a bunch of very wealth Premier League teams and a bunch of big teams across Europe.
Then we're surprised/disappointed that we haven't done more in the transfer market - but we're 8th for transfer spend in the division (3rd for net spend). |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:53 - Aug 9 with 1712 views | SitfcB |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:48 - Aug 9 by portmanking |
Was led to believe so by the same people who've given me info in the past! |
Is Mrs Coppinger still working up the hospital, by the way?  | |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:59 - Aug 9 with 1701 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
I think at the end of the month there will be some frustrations, but at the same time, I'm glad we haven't done a Fulham or Forest and blown out on transfer fees that aren't sustainable for the future of the club and paid players on big money that put us in a mess.
We haven't signed badly but the jury is out for me on whether we have enough quality in the forward areas. Quality does come with a cost though and we aren't a massive pull as a newly promoted club with expectations to survive being fairly slim.
A bit similar to last season, there were players who we were linked with but chose other established Championship sides who were stable in that league. It is what it is. Stay up this season, and I'm sure we will be more attractive to players next season. [Post edited 9 Aug 2024 11:59]
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:59 - Aug 9 with 1689 views | hype313 |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 11:48 - Aug 9 by portmanking |
Was led to believe so by the same people who've given me info in the past! |
I thought it was a shoe in, given your previous ITK's! | |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 12:13 - Aug 9 with 1664 views | Vegtablue |
Good summary for me. I believe McKenna was honest in his thoughts on rough numbers needed to be competitive this season. I don't think we're at 'final pieces of the jigsaw stage', which is where I hoped we'd be by now. "Lots" in football terms is surely above four. I'd suggest we're 6-7 players away from the ideal scenario, on top of our injured heroes returning to fitness (ST, LW, SS, CM, CM, CB, GK?).
I know we're straining every sinew to provide Kieran with a platform to succeed from, so I hope my opinion on our preparedness isn't mistaken for criticism. | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 12:21 - Aug 9 with 1644 views | Len_Brennan |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 10:47 - Aug 9 by BlueOura |
"We are now getting linked to players that clearly weren't high on our list of targets last May"
This is the only bit I would challenge you on as I don't think we can possibly know that. Otherwise I agree with the general gist of your post. We are definitely short on both numbers and quality going into the Liverpool game, ( as it stands ) and I think it is fair to say it has been a disappointing and frustrating month.
I am very surprised that we are still getting linked with defenders and not CM and attacking players and it concerns me that we don't seem to making big moves towards improving the CM position. As much as we all love Mass, it is very obvious that he is going to struggle for pace and mobility at Prem level. Not sure Taylor is really the answer either.
Of course we don't know what is going on behind the scenes so i will wait until the window is closed before making too much of a judgement, but for me we still have an awful lot of business to do to make us truly competitive. |
Fair point. | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 12:28 - Aug 9 with 1617 views | Len_Brennan |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 09:52 - Aug 9 by Cheltenham_Blue |
On todays news,
New Premier League Club in 'They Don't Get Every Player They Are After' Shocker!! |
I don't think that "Every" was right word for you to have used there. | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 12:33 - Aug 9 with 1606 views | jayessess |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 12:13 - Aug 9 by Vegtablue |
Good summary for me. I believe McKenna was honest in his thoughts on rough numbers needed to be competitive this season. I don't think we're at 'final pieces of the jigsaw stage', which is where I hoped we'd be by now. "Lots" in football terms is surely above four. I'd suggest we're 6-7 players away from the ideal scenario, on top of our injured heroes returning to fitness (ST, LW, SS, CM, CM, CB, GK?).
I know we're straining every sinew to provide Kieran with a platform to succeed from, so I hope my opinion on our preparedness isn't mistaken for criticism. |
Don't think 13 players was ever a realistic target in this one window.
In our situation, it's very easy to get suckered into imagining you've made progress by acquiring a lot of middling players who aren't much better than what you've already got. | |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 14:15 - Aug 9 with 1437 views | Vegtablue |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 12:33 - Aug 9 by jayessess |
Don't think 13 players was ever a realistic target in this one window.
In our situation, it's very easy to get suckered into imagining you've made progress by acquiring a lot of middling players who aren't much better than what you've already got. |
Lots of middling Championship players wouldn't cut it, certainly. Re realistic numbers, here's the summer arrivals for newly promoted clubs since 2020:
Luton: 13
Sheff Utd: 10
Burnley: 15
Forest: 23
Bournemouth: 6
Fulham: 11
Norwich: 11
Watford: 12
Brentford: 7
Leeds: 8
West Brom: 9
Fulham 12
Given our length of absence from the PL - many of the above clubs were making alterations to squads already containing PL regulars - I don't think 12 or 13 is/was fanciful. Luton brought 13 in and were praised for retaining the identity and spirit of their successful season. Leeds is a good recent example of a squad who did well after a long absence and only single-digit summer alterations, though they had already built on a 3rd place finish to come up as champions. I never thought we'd emulate Forest, who are a success story sadly, but I was confident we'd be targeting double-digit additions, inclusive of deputy LBs and potentially backup keepers.
Southampton have signed 12 so far, in addition to the 7 who return to the squad from top-flight loans. I know quantity doesn't necessarily equal success, they need to be the right players and genuine improvements of course. | | | |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 14:20 - Aug 9 with 1399 views | MK1 |
Go and put the kettle on. We'll be alright. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 15:33 - Aug 9 with 1301 views | textbackup |
We face going into another season with only Hirst as our out and out number 9 (unless LD is seen as a number 9)
Not sure that would have been the plan. Guess we’ll see what happens this coming week, and before the window shuts |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:02 - Aug 9 with 1203 views | BlueBoots |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 09:53 - Aug 9 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Still a week to go. So I'm hoping that we can have a CM and left sided player in by Liverpool if only to beef up the squad.
As things stand we are sending McKenna to a gunfight with a knife. |
I don't get this urgency that some people have for players to be signed for the Liverpool game - there are three weeks until the transfer window closes, not one. The players we've signed so far could potentially be at the club for 5-10 years; we've no doubt got targets and back-ups for the positions we are still recruiting, so if we have the chance to land a first choice by waiting 2 more weeks (who could also be at the club for years to come), why would we bring in an inferior player just for the sake of a couple of games that they're probably not going to be up to speed for anyway?
The opening games against 2 teams that are going to be tough propositions anyway aren't going to define our season or the future of the club; getting bodies through the door to as you put it "beef up the squad" is something to look at towards deadline day after using all the time available to recruit the best players we can who will be part of a long term plan. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:09 - Aug 9 with 1183 views | jayessess |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 14:15 - Aug 9 by Vegtablue |
Lots of middling Championship players wouldn't cut it, certainly. Re realistic numbers, here's the summer arrivals for newly promoted clubs since 2020:
Luton: 13
Sheff Utd: 10
Burnley: 15
Forest: 23
Bournemouth: 6
Fulham: 11
Norwich: 11
Watford: 12
Brentford: 7
Leeds: 8
West Brom: 9
Fulham 12
Given our length of absence from the PL - many of the above clubs were making alterations to squads already containing PL regulars - I don't think 12 or 13 is/was fanciful. Luton brought 13 in and were praised for retaining the identity and spirit of their successful season. Leeds is a good recent example of a squad who did well after a long absence and only single-digit summer alterations, though they had already built on a 3rd place finish to come up as champions. I never thought we'd emulate Forest, who are a success story sadly, but I was confident we'd be targeting double-digit additions, inclusive of deputy LBs and potentially backup keepers.
Southampton have signed 12 so far, in addition to the 7 who return to the squad from top-flight loans. I know quantity doesn't necessarily equal success, they need to be the right players and genuine improvements of course. |
The five that stayed up:
Leeds 8
Brentford 7
Fulham 11
Bournemouth 6
Forest 23
I assume we're not intending to model ourselves on Forest.
The issue isn't just "middling Championship players" that don't improve you, it's also those £5-10m signings from other European leagues and the unproven young players at other Premier League clubs.
How many of Burnley's Summer signings last year were worthwhile? Maybe 3 (Berge, Odobert and O'Shea).
Then you look at Norwich signing 11 players in their last brief sojourn in the PL. Did it do them much good? [Post edited 9 Aug 2024 16:28]
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:19 - Aug 9 with 1149 views | chicoazul |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 15:33 - Aug 9 by textbackup |
We face going into another season with only Hirst as our out and out number 9 (unless LD is seen as a number 9)
Not sure that would have been the plan. Guess we’ll see what happens this coming week, and before the window shuts |
And he’s out for another month. Ladapo will be the one. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:26 - Aug 9 with 1141 views | Kropotkin123 |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 09:21 - Aug 9 by dirtyboy |
I know the game has moved on, but just hear me out two secs.
8 of the team that started the final game of the 2000 season (Barnsley) started the first game of the following Premier season.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see 8/9 of the team from Huddersfield play next week.
Muric and Delap the obvious additions, Greaves likely.
Taylor, Axel and Woolfy all possible changes, but ultimately, it won't be a huge departure from last year.
Obviously the 'strength in depth' issue is perhaps more concerning, we're looking a little light in terms of swapping out the front group at the time McKenna usually likes and I think that'll be where we fall short.
Plus, the window isn't shut. |
Muric, Greaves, Johnson and Delap (given Hirst's injury) will likely start. I make it 7 without any injuries.
Would be nice to have SS in so he can join from the bench.
CM cover, having lost Travis, is the biggest concern for me. Ideally we should be getting someone we think can outperform Luongo. |  |
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| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:35 - Aug 9 with 1099 views | textbackup |
| A disappointing & frustrating month on 16:19 - Aug 9 by chicoazul |
And he’s out for another month. Ladapo will be the one. |
Doubt a PL defender will have an easier game… | |
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