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Is Trump really saying that babies are being killed in their first month of life? They are calling it 'Post Birth Abortion' and his followers are sucking it up.
Or is it a hoax or AI trickery and I am falling for it?
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 13:18 - Aug 22 by EdwardStone
Trump organised the botched withdrawl from Afghanistan which has caused untold suffering within that country and a tide of refugees seeking safety elsewhere
Trump failed to respond appropriately to Covid, deaths in the USA during the pandemic nearly reached 1 million due to his stupidity and recklessness
Trump emboldened Putin and therefore is partially to blame for the invasion of Ukraine and bears some responsibility for the death and suffering there
Trump is an abhorrent human being who has no place near the levers of power
He is a skidmark in the underpants of the civilised World and you are an apologist for him
As for Biden being the least competent President..... maybe I could refer you to William Henry Harrison who died after 32 days in office, allegedly from flu/pneumonia contracted whist making an overlong inaugural speech
I take your William Henry Harrison and raise you Warren Gamaliel Harding:
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 13:56 - Aug 22 by Europablue
In you mind I might have "actively sought to justify grossly offensive misinformation". I explained to you that I linked an article and said that they extrapolated it from there. You need to understand the difference between explaining something or how it may have happened and justifying it. Pinpoint a particular phrase or it does feel like it's just a witch hunt. Ironically you saying that I dog whistled is dog whistling me. It's all about what you think I said of what you want me to have said. You obviously don't like me. It's either something I said on another thread, you don't like someone who gives any other perspective to yours, or something else. Aside from what you projected on me, tell me if you disagree with any of the comments I made about abortion. I'm not going to answer something about what I said on another thread. I go and reply there. "It is impossible to have logical discourse with someone unable to see the problems with their own position." I do agree with you there, and I would add that it is impossible to have logical discourse with someone who is unwilling to examine their own position.
You can keep repeating the same nonsense. It does not make it valid or justifiable.
Your MO is utterly transparent.
0
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:38 - Aug 22 with 1794 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 11:05 - Aug 22 by Europablue
It really depends on your idea of the size of a nugget. In this case the nugget is vanishingly small, but when it is taken out out context and you know what other opinions on abortion some people have in the Democrat party, then for many it doesn't seem like much of a leap. Some people will say that it is the slipping of the mask and that is his true belief. I would demand much further proof to actually accuse him of supporting infanticide.
As I said before, I think more fertile ground for discussion is time limits on abortion. I feel like I'm pretty moderate on the issue. The concept of a woman's right to choose is extreme if that includes 30 week selective abortions.
“ The English language is full of idioms that are used to convey a message in a more interesting and creative way. One such idiom is “nugget of truth,” which means a small but important piece of information or fact that can help one understand a situation better. This idiom has been in use for many years, and it continues to be popular among people who want to express themselves more effectively.”
From your link, at the top.
CLAIM: A video shows Virginia Governor Ralph Northam during a 2019 radio interview speaking in support of infanticide, or “after-birth abortions.”
AP’S ASSESSMENT: False.
1
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:44 - Aug 22 with 1774 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:38 - Aug 22 by eireblue
“ The English language is full of idioms that are used to convey a message in a more interesting and creative way. One such idiom is “nugget of truth,” which means a small but important piece of information or fact that can help one understand a situation better. This idiom has been in use for many years, and it continues to be popular among people who want to express themselves more effectively.”
From your link, at the top.
CLAIM: A video shows Virginia Governor Ralph Northam during a 2019 radio interview speaking in support of infanticide, or “after-birth abortions.”
AP’S ASSESSMENT: False.
Quite. There was no nugget of truth anywhere in it.
1
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:46 - Aug 22 with 1772 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 12:27 - Aug 22 by redrickstuhaart
Yes Trump materially changed all our lives with his approach to politics, the danger he created in the world vis a vis Russia, the normalisation of outright lies, bigotry and simply brazening out any act of non-integrity.
This has emboldened some of the worst elements in western society, and provided a blueprint, and a baseline for the stuff which Boris proceeded to pull, with direct effect on this nation and its democratic systems.
I don't like the way that Trump does things. He is very rude. I hope no-one is holding him up as an example of how to behave. I really hate that he embodies the worst in American capitalism like he would sell his Gran. I don't see any good politicians on either side, but if we are talking about the Republicans, then DiSantis is a much more polished politician. I do like Trump's honesty in that he doesn't have a filter. I see that as being more honest than typical politicians. Most other politicians have to check the polls before they know what opinion they have. I honestly don't know what is worse, Trump's statements that range from small lies about very insignificant things like what he had for lunch yesterday, or the things he believes are true and says anyway without any research, or the calculated lies that proper politicians push. There is plenty of non-integrity on show from all senior politicians. I do really think that the thing that upsets people most about Trump is that he doesn't follow etiquette and he is rude to people's faces. I follow your argument about setting a bad example of how to treat people and how to act in office. I just don't see any really good counter behaviours. Hillary Clinton was saying that she wouldn't respect the result if Trump beat her before Trump did the same. Trump was in the wrong even if he feels like he was cheated. Maybe he was in a legal way through ballot harvesting, gerrymandering, etc., but it was a huge tactical error not to concede and to not calm his supporters down sooner. The Democrats have used lawfare to try to get Trump on any grounds they can. That was a very dangerous precedent to set. Prosecution should be based on a specific crime. Targeting an individual first to see what they can pin on him is political persecution using the courts.
Russia didn't attack while Trump was in office and I believe that they wouldn't have done so if Trump were still President. It was a remarkable Presidency in that he didn't get America into any new wars and was in the process of getting out of Afghanistan. Biden botched the withdrawal signaling American weakness and incompetency and Putin took advantage of the power vacuum. It would have been much better if Trump stayed on for another 4 years, or a competent leader like Obama was in charge of the Democrats. I do worry how Trump will get out of the Ukraine war. I don't think he cares about them and he might not support sending American money over there endlessly.
You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry. I think it's fair to provide proof, and not just some clumsy phrasing.
I see Trump more as the result of the worsening discourse in society and not the cause of it. There is almost no cross-party cooperation anymore.
0
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:51 - Aug 22 with 1765 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 12:35 - Aug 22 by EddyJ
Don't forget packing the supreme court with extremely right wing judges and its impact on things like Roe v. Wade.
He didn't pack the court, he just appointed judges as per the rules and he was lucky that two judges needed to be replaced. It is weird that in America the supreme court is political, but both sides appoint judges that they hope will make judgments more to their side. They are still independent and even Trump's appointments often go against his preferences. Roe v Wade didn't have a constitutional basis, so it was the right decision to reverse the ruling. Clearly, that issue is too polarized to come to a consensus. Therefore, it is better for each of the states to decide.
0
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:54 - Aug 22 with 1747 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:46 - Aug 22 by Europablue
I don't like the way that Trump does things. He is very rude. I hope no-one is holding him up as an example of how to behave. I really hate that he embodies the worst in American capitalism like he would sell his Gran. I don't see any good politicians on either side, but if we are talking about the Republicans, then DiSantis is a much more polished politician. I do like Trump's honesty in that he doesn't have a filter. I see that as being more honest than typical politicians. Most other politicians have to check the polls before they know what opinion they have. I honestly don't know what is worse, Trump's statements that range from small lies about very insignificant things like what he had for lunch yesterday, or the things he believes are true and says anyway without any research, or the calculated lies that proper politicians push. There is plenty of non-integrity on show from all senior politicians. I do really think that the thing that upsets people most about Trump is that he doesn't follow etiquette and he is rude to people's faces. I follow your argument about setting a bad example of how to treat people and how to act in office. I just don't see any really good counter behaviours. Hillary Clinton was saying that she wouldn't respect the result if Trump beat her before Trump did the same. Trump was in the wrong even if he feels like he was cheated. Maybe he was in a legal way through ballot harvesting, gerrymandering, etc., but it was a huge tactical error not to concede and to not calm his supporters down sooner. The Democrats have used lawfare to try to get Trump on any grounds they can. That was a very dangerous precedent to set. Prosecution should be based on a specific crime. Targeting an individual first to see what they can pin on him is political persecution using the courts.
Russia didn't attack while Trump was in office and I believe that they wouldn't have done so if Trump were still President. It was a remarkable Presidency in that he didn't get America into any new wars and was in the process of getting out of Afghanistan. Biden botched the withdrawal signaling American weakness and incompetency and Putin took advantage of the power vacuum. It would have been much better if Trump stayed on for another 4 years, or a competent leader like Obama was in charge of the Democrats. I do worry how Trump will get out of the Ukraine war. I don't think he cares about them and he might not support sending American money over there endlessly.
You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry. I think it's fair to provide proof, and not just some clumsy phrasing.
I see Trump more as the result of the worsening discourse in society and not the cause of it. There is almost no cross-party cooperation anymore.
“ You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry. I think it's fair to provide proof, and not just some clumsy phrasing.”
I have seen that some people want to extrapolate from zero evidence and even tried to imply it was clumsy wording,….oh yea that really has happened.
So yes good to hold people to that same standard.
-2
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:00 - Aug 22 with 1729 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:14 - Aug 22 by redrickstuhaart
You can keep repeating the same nonsense. It does not make it valid or justifiable.
Your MO is utterly transparent.
Your attacks on me have no substance. It's just name-calling. Not everyone sees things the same way as you and that doesn't make them bad people. Get over it.
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:46 - Aug 22 by Europablue
I don't like the way that Trump does things. He is very rude. I hope no-one is holding him up as an example of how to behave. I really hate that he embodies the worst in American capitalism like he would sell his Gran. I don't see any good politicians on either side, but if we are talking about the Republicans, then DiSantis is a much more polished politician. I do like Trump's honesty in that he doesn't have a filter. I see that as being more honest than typical politicians. Most other politicians have to check the polls before they know what opinion they have. I honestly don't know what is worse, Trump's statements that range from small lies about very insignificant things like what he had for lunch yesterday, or the things he believes are true and says anyway without any research, or the calculated lies that proper politicians push. There is plenty of non-integrity on show from all senior politicians. I do really think that the thing that upsets people most about Trump is that he doesn't follow etiquette and he is rude to people's faces. I follow your argument about setting a bad example of how to treat people and how to act in office. I just don't see any really good counter behaviours. Hillary Clinton was saying that she wouldn't respect the result if Trump beat her before Trump did the same. Trump was in the wrong even if he feels like he was cheated. Maybe he was in a legal way through ballot harvesting, gerrymandering, etc., but it was a huge tactical error not to concede and to not calm his supporters down sooner. The Democrats have used lawfare to try to get Trump on any grounds they can. That was a very dangerous precedent to set. Prosecution should be based on a specific crime. Targeting an individual first to see what they can pin on him is political persecution using the courts.
Russia didn't attack while Trump was in office and I believe that they wouldn't have done so if Trump were still President. It was a remarkable Presidency in that he didn't get America into any new wars and was in the process of getting out of Afghanistan. Biden botched the withdrawal signaling American weakness and incompetency and Putin took advantage of the power vacuum. It would have been much better if Trump stayed on for another 4 years, or a competent leader like Obama was in charge of the Democrats. I do worry how Trump will get out of the Ukraine war. I don't think he cares about them and he might not support sending American money over there endlessly.
You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry. I think it's fair to provide proof, and not just some clumsy phrasing.
I see Trump more as the result of the worsening discourse in society and not the cause of it. There is almost no cross-party cooperation anymore.
Instead of addressing the points made, we have a gishgallop of half truths and bare assertions. Straight out of the Trump playbook and not honest.
"The Democrats have used lawfare to try to get Trump on any grounds they can. That was a very dangerous precedent to set. " Really? Show us the proof.
"Biden botched the withdrawal signaling American weakness and incompetency " Trump signed the deal...
"You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry." This is like demanding evidence for the existence of gravity. How about "grab them by the p*ssy"? Or the claims about emptying asylums to play on people's xenophobic fears? Or sexually assaulting a woman? Or claiming that Obama wasn't American? Or questioning Harris racial identity for electoral gain? Or saying that there were fine people on both sides, in relation to violent white supremacist groups?
"n a 1989 interview with Bryant Gumbel, Trump stated: "A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market."
"During the presidential campaign, Trump criticized Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel who oversaw those two cases, alleging bias in his rulings because he is "a Mexican judge. He’s of Mexican heritage." Although his parents immigrated from Mexico, Judge Curiel is an American citizen, born in East Chicago, Indiana.[74][75] Trump said that Curiel would have "an absolute conflict" due to his Mexican heritage which led to accusations of racism"
"Progressive" Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can't leave fast enough. I'm sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!"
I could go on. For pages and pages.
3
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:04 - Aug 22 with 1719 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:51 - Aug 22 by Europablue
He didn't pack the court, he just appointed judges as per the rules and he was lucky that two judges needed to be replaced. It is weird that in America the supreme court is political, but both sides appoint judges that they hope will make judgments more to their side. They are still independent and even Trump's appointments often go against his preferences. Roe v Wade didn't have a constitutional basis, so it was the right decision to reverse the ruling. Clearly, that issue is too polarized to come to a consensus. Therefore, it is better for each of the states to decide.
So many dodgy comments here. Roe v Wade had absolute constitutional basis. It took a carefully selected, very right wing court to justify its overturning. To pretend trhat didnt have an impact on people and the world, is disgusting.
2
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:04 - Aug 22 with 1717 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:00 - Aug 22 by Europablue
Your attacks on me have no substance. It's just name-calling. Not everyone sees things the same way as you and that doesn't make them bad people. Get over it.
Nothing to do with name calling.
I am describing your views, and the way you invidiously put them forward supposedly in the guise of offering balance.
0
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:05 - Aug 22 with 1715 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:46 - Aug 22 by Europablue
I don't like the way that Trump does things. He is very rude. I hope no-one is holding him up as an example of how to behave. I really hate that he embodies the worst in American capitalism like he would sell his Gran. I don't see any good politicians on either side, but if we are talking about the Republicans, then DiSantis is a much more polished politician. I do like Trump's honesty in that he doesn't have a filter. I see that as being more honest than typical politicians. Most other politicians have to check the polls before they know what opinion they have. I honestly don't know what is worse, Trump's statements that range from small lies about very insignificant things like what he had for lunch yesterday, or the things he believes are true and says anyway without any research, or the calculated lies that proper politicians push. There is plenty of non-integrity on show from all senior politicians. I do really think that the thing that upsets people most about Trump is that he doesn't follow etiquette and he is rude to people's faces. I follow your argument about setting a bad example of how to treat people and how to act in office. I just don't see any really good counter behaviours. Hillary Clinton was saying that she wouldn't respect the result if Trump beat her before Trump did the same. Trump was in the wrong even if he feels like he was cheated. Maybe he was in a legal way through ballot harvesting, gerrymandering, etc., but it was a huge tactical error not to concede and to not calm his supporters down sooner. The Democrats have used lawfare to try to get Trump on any grounds they can. That was a very dangerous precedent to set. Prosecution should be based on a specific crime. Targeting an individual first to see what they can pin on him is political persecution using the courts.
Russia didn't attack while Trump was in office and I believe that they wouldn't have done so if Trump were still President. It was a remarkable Presidency in that he didn't get America into any new wars and was in the process of getting out of Afghanistan. Biden botched the withdrawal signaling American weakness and incompetency and Putin took advantage of the power vacuum. It would have been much better if Trump stayed on for another 4 years, or a competent leader like Obama was in charge of the Democrats. I do worry how Trump will get out of the Ukraine war. I don't think he cares about them and he might not support sending American money over there endlessly.
You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry. I think it's fair to provide proof, and not just some clumsy phrasing.
I see Trump more as the result of the worsening discourse in society and not the cause of it. There is almost no cross-party cooperation anymore.
" I do like Trump's honesty"
Arf arf
Trump is a crook, a rapist and a liar
He exists in dishonesty like a fish lives in water....it is all he knows, all he ever will know and he simply couldn't survive without lying
Putin played him for a fool and suckered up to Trump's amazingly fragile ego.... and will do so again if Trump is allowed back in to White House
I reject your assertion that we can forgive Trump because all politicians lie and I wonder why you are making so much effort to defend the indefencible
1
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:08 - Aug 22 with 1691 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:38 - Aug 22 by eireblue
“ The English language is full of idioms that are used to convey a message in a more interesting and creative way. One such idiom is “nugget of truth,” which means a small but important piece of information or fact that can help one understand a situation better. This idiom has been in use for many years, and it continues to be popular among people who want to express themselves more effectively.”
From your link, at the top.
CLAIM: A video shows Virginia Governor Ralph Northam during a 2019 radio interview speaking in support of infanticide, or “after-birth abortions.”
AP’S ASSESSMENT: False.
There are different meanings of the term. I offered the one that came up first on google ("A small amount of truth in a generally untrue statement") and used it in that sense and the sense that I've always heard it in. Did you watch the video? His delivery is very clumsy. He talks about ending a baby's life after birth, that is the nugget of truth. You have to take it out of context and not be charitable to his clumsy delivery to take that he supports post-birth abortion.
It's very painful commenting on this forum, it wasn't enough that I agreed with the consensus and the AP's assessment, I had to agree in the exact way that pleases the biased rabble.
0
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:13 - Aug 22 with 1666 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:08 - Aug 22 by Europablue
There are different meanings of the term. I offered the one that came up first on google ("A small amount of truth in a generally untrue statement") and used it in that sense and the sense that I've always heard it in. Did you watch the video? His delivery is very clumsy. He talks about ending a baby's life after birth, that is the nugget of truth. You have to take it out of context and not be charitable to his clumsy delivery to take that he supports post-birth abortion.
It's very painful commenting on this forum, it wasn't enough that I agreed with the consensus and the AP's assessment, I had to agree in the exact way that pleases the biased rabble.
To somehow use the tragic and awful situation of having to consider (in any circumstance, let alone that of a new born) whether to resucitate or not, as justification for misinformation claiming that democrats are discussing post birth abortion, is as dishonest as it gets.
This is clear cut. It is not an issue where you need to explore a nuance or offer balance.
0
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:23 - Aug 22 with 1605 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:54 - Aug 22 by eireblue
“ You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry. I think it's fair to provide proof, and not just some clumsy phrasing.”
I have seen that some people want to extrapolate from zero evidence and even tried to imply it was clumsy wording,….oh yea that really has happened.
So yes good to hold people to that same standard.
I see you are doing that typical primary school tactic or deflecting. Just listen to the video yourself. You and people like you are a great example of how polarized people are. It's easy to see how you opponents would interpret that the way they did. I don't agree with either extreme. It was just a clumsy politician answer in that he tried not to really answer the question. Both sides will interpret things to suit their agenda even in my case where I was trying to be neutral and provide the context.
-4
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:28 - Aug 22 with 1589 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:23 - Aug 22 by Europablue
I see you are doing that typical primary school tactic or deflecting. Just listen to the video yourself. You and people like you are a great example of how polarized people are. It's easy to see how you opponents would interpret that the way they did. I don't agree with either extreme. It was just a clumsy politician answer in that he tried not to really answer the question. Both sides will interpret things to suit their agenda even in my case where I was trying to be neutral and provide the context.
He was literally calling out your deflection / wilful ignorance.
3
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:43 - Aug 22 with 1537 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:23 - Aug 22 by Europablue
I see you are doing that typical primary school tactic or deflecting. Just listen to the video yourself. You and people like you are a great example of how polarized people are. It's easy to see how you opponents would interpret that the way they did. I don't agree with either extreme. It was just a clumsy politician answer in that he tried not to really answer the question. Both sides will interpret things to suit their agenda even in my case where I was trying to be neutral and provide the context.
I haven’t commented once on the topic of abortion, so nothing to defect.
I haven’t once referenced or postulated a particular political position on this topic.
I was talking specifically about what you posted and positioned. Which was inaccurate, misleading, and of a lesser standard that you want other people to adhere to.
4
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 16:09 - Aug 22 with 1463 views
The nugget of truth in completely false misinformation. Trump wasn’t a disaster as president. Trump is more honest than other politicians. Trump was cheated out of the election win by Democratic legal manipulations. Biden is the worst ever president and was at fault for the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
It’s one the thing to be wrong. It’s another to be so wrong so often. And yet another to be so wrong, so often, with such confidence.
5
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 16:57 - Aug 22 with 1393 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 12:20 - Aug 22 by Europablue
Did Trump being in charge from 2016 to 2020 materially change your life? From the outside looking in it seems like the Republicans are more interested in legislation on the state level, whereas the Democrats seem more interested in legislating nationally. So I'd imagine that it's better to be in a Democrat state under Trump than a Republican state under the Democrats.
People who saw that Trump being president wasn't really a disaster and the world went on quite fine contrary to claims that it was very dangerous for him to be elected. It's very difficult to trust those same people when they say that the sky is falling again.
The reason that Trump has a good chance of getting elected is the poor job that the Democrats have done with maybe the least competent President in history. Eventually the Republicans will do a bad job and the Democrats will reform to be more centrist and they will get in again.
So as the guy on my posted video often says,
Under the democrats crime has fallen and the economy has grown. Despite Trump constantly saying otherwise. But thats what he does, says stuff that has no truth in it. But thankfully the polls disagree with you analysis.
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:51 - Aug 22 by Europablue
He didn't pack the court, he just appointed judges as per the rules and he was lucky that two judges needed to be replaced. It is weird that in America the supreme court is political, but both sides appoint judges that they hope will make judgments more to their side. They are still independent and even Trump's appointments often go against his preferences. Roe v Wade didn't have a constitutional basis, so it was the right decision to reverse the ruling. Clearly, that issue is too polarized to come to a consensus. Therefore, it is better for each of the states to decide.
In many ways the worst thing Trump has done are his supreme court choices. By picking incredibly partisan far-right judges, a protection of woman's rights which had stood for 50 years was overturned.
It used to be common for judges to vote outside of party lines. They were less political and there to interpret and uphold the constitution. Now they are there to push an agenda. Trump did that.
"FiveThirtyEight found the number of unanimous decisions dropped from the 20-year average of nearly 50% to nearly 30% in 2021 while party-line rulings increased from a 60-year average just above zero to a record high 21%."
[Post edited 22 Aug 2024 17:00]
2
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 23:23 - Aug 22 with 1259 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 12:20 - Aug 22 by Europablue
Did Trump being in charge from 2016 to 2020 materially change your life? From the outside looking in it seems like the Republicans are more interested in legislation on the state level, whereas the Democrats seem more interested in legislating nationally. So I'd imagine that it's better to be in a Democrat state under Trump than a Republican state under the Democrats.
People who saw that Trump being president wasn't really a disaster and the world went on quite fine contrary to claims that it was very dangerous for him to be elected. It's very difficult to trust those same people when they say that the sky is falling again.
The reason that Trump has a good chance of getting elected is the poor job that the Democrats have done with maybe the least competent President in history. Eventually the Republicans will do a bad job and the Democrats will reform to be more centrist and they will get in again.
What utter nonsense. Trump trashed the economy, destroyed alliances, crawled to Putin, botched the Covid response and is quite obviously a horrible narcissistic individual. Biden's team sorted out the Covid response, grew the economy, gave more access to health care for the poor, re-affirmed alliances, stood up to Putin etc etc. Your far right mask is slipping
2
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 23:46 - Aug 22 with 1245 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 14:46 - Aug 22 by Europablue
I don't like the way that Trump does things. He is very rude. I hope no-one is holding him up as an example of how to behave. I really hate that he embodies the worst in American capitalism like he would sell his Gran. I don't see any good politicians on either side, but if we are talking about the Republicans, then DiSantis is a much more polished politician. I do like Trump's honesty in that he doesn't have a filter. I see that as being more honest than typical politicians. Most other politicians have to check the polls before they know what opinion they have. I honestly don't know what is worse, Trump's statements that range from small lies about very insignificant things like what he had for lunch yesterday, or the things he believes are true and says anyway without any research, or the calculated lies that proper politicians push. There is plenty of non-integrity on show from all senior politicians. I do really think that the thing that upsets people most about Trump is that he doesn't follow etiquette and he is rude to people's faces. I follow your argument about setting a bad example of how to treat people and how to act in office. I just don't see any really good counter behaviours. Hillary Clinton was saying that she wouldn't respect the result if Trump beat her before Trump did the same. Trump was in the wrong even if he feels like he was cheated. Maybe he was in a legal way through ballot harvesting, gerrymandering, etc., but it was a huge tactical error not to concede and to not calm his supporters down sooner. The Democrats have used lawfare to try to get Trump on any grounds they can. That was a very dangerous precedent to set. Prosecution should be based on a specific crime. Targeting an individual first to see what they can pin on him is political persecution using the courts.
Russia didn't attack while Trump was in office and I believe that they wouldn't have done so if Trump were still President. It was a remarkable Presidency in that he didn't get America into any new wars and was in the process of getting out of Afghanistan. Biden botched the withdrawal signaling American weakness and incompetency and Putin took advantage of the power vacuum. It would have been much better if Trump stayed on for another 4 years, or a competent leader like Obama was in charge of the Democrats. I do worry how Trump will get out of the Ukraine war. I don't think he cares about them and he might not support sending American money over there endlessly.
You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry. I think it's fair to provide proof, and not just some clumsy phrasing.
I see Trump more as the result of the worsening discourse in society and not the cause of it. There is almost no cross-party cooperation anymore.
Where to start with this one sided rubbish! Hilary Clinton did accept the result. She didn't launch endless law suits, she didn't ring governors to "find" extra votes and she didn't incite a riot endangering the lives of fellow politicians in which law enforcement officers were killed. Trump and honesty are complete opposites. He has done so much to take the truth out of public discourse. Then you try and justify his anger at the election loss with baseless accusations re gerrymandering, ballot harvesting etc. So just perpetuating the big lie. And the Democrats haven't used lawfare to try to get to him. He is a criminal and faces numerous further charges. Even today it's said he phoned Netenyahu to try and stop him signing up to any cease fire as it would help the Democrats. So no care for lives lost. I could go on but it's clear that you have a strong right agenda and seek to divert from the truth with a mixture of distortion, outright lies and utter nonsense. As with Farage defending it's despicable but just what the fascists need to get power. Or you are a troll
[Post edited 22 Aug 2024 23:47]
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Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 08:45 - Aug 23 with 1128 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 13:18 - Aug 22 by EdwardStone
Trump organised the botched withdrawl from Afghanistan which has caused untold suffering within that country and a tide of refugees seeking safety elsewhere
Trump failed to respond appropriately to Covid, deaths in the USA during the pandemic nearly reached 1 million due to his stupidity and recklessness
Trump emboldened Putin and therefore is partially to blame for the invasion of Ukraine and bears some responsibility for the death and suffering there
Trump is an abhorrent human being who has no place near the levers of power
He is a skidmark in the underpants of the civilised World and you are an apologist for him
As for Biden being the least competent President..... maybe I could refer you to William Henry Harrison who died after 32 days in office, allegedly from flu/pneumonia contracted whist making an overlong inaugural speech
I'm not here to defend Trump. I just think overall the world and America would be better off with him in charge than Harris. The Democrats have become the party of the war hawks taking the mantle from the Republicans. I really don't think it's ok to perpetuate the military industrial complex. I don't agree with Trump's isolationist tendencies, but of course he's right that Europe should pay for their own defense and commit their own troops.
Biden is clearly about 12 years too late to be president. Nominating Biden was never about what was best for the country, it was all about being Trump. The execution of the Afghanistan withdrawal was the problem. The person in charge at the time has to take responsibility and take charge. If the plans were not workable then they needed to be revised.
You'd have to provide proof rather than just disliking Trump to claim that he particularly caused deaths by covid. I remember him being called racist for suggesting that flights from China be stopped. Nancy Pelosi even went to Chinatown to hug Chinese people. When politicians are so polarized, they rarely pull in the same direction and are not good in a crisis. A lot of countries made a lot of mistakes. The deaths in the US are comparable to the UK. Deaths by covid track pretty well how unhealthy the population was.
Don't kid yourself. The weak response to Putin annexing Crimea in 2014 was what emboldened Putin and when Biden was elected and then botched the Afghanistan withdrawal, Putin took his opportunity.
Trump is not an ideal candidate by any means. Ideally there would be better options. As a European I'm more interested in the effect on the world. Biden being weak let Putin and Biden tanked the economy. The Democrats are so focused on nailing Trump that they are very distracted. Hopefully Trump wins, then after 4 years the circus around him can fade into insignificance.
I take your point on William Henry Harrison, but at least he had the good grace to vacate the presidency early on and didn't hang on for 4 years and even come close to going into an election for 4 more.
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Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 09:16 - Aug 23 with 1093 views
Trump and Post Birth Abortions... on 15:02 - Aug 22 by redrickstuhaart
Instead of addressing the points made, we have a gishgallop of half truths and bare assertions. Straight out of the Trump playbook and not honest.
"The Democrats have used lawfare to try to get Trump on any grounds they can. That was a very dangerous precedent to set. " Really? Show us the proof.
"Biden botched the withdrawal signaling American weakness and incompetency " Trump signed the deal...
"You would have to direct me to Trump's bigotry." This is like demanding evidence for the existence of gravity. How about "grab them by the p*ssy"? Or the claims about emptying asylums to play on people's xenophobic fears? Or sexually assaulting a woman? Or claiming that Obama wasn't American? Or questioning Harris racial identity for electoral gain? Or saying that there were fine people on both sides, in relation to violent white supremacist groups?
"n a 1989 interview with Bryant Gumbel, Trump stated: "A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market."
"During the presidential campaign, Trump criticized Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel who oversaw those two cases, alleging bias in his rulings because he is "a Mexican judge. He’s of Mexican heritage." Although his parents immigrated from Mexico, Judge Curiel is an American citizen, born in East Chicago, Indiana.[74][75] Trump said that Curiel would have "an absolute conflict" due to his Mexican heritage which led to accusations of racism"
"Progressive" Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can't leave fast enough. I'm sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!"
I could go on. For pages and pages.
I'm not a Trump fanatic, so I'm going to play the role of Trump defender. I don't care about him. I just strongly feel like there is a mass hysteria about him and people exaggerate how bad he is. There is just no balance. If there are any voices asking people to scrutinize their conclusions, then people try to shoot them down. This whole argument started from me posting a source agreeing that there isn't evidence of post-birth abortion like the conspiracy theorists said. I does feel like people see Trump as the devil and actually he is just part of a bigger problem of polarization in politics and dehumanizing from both sides.
Both sides keep ratcheting things up and setting dangerous precedents. Trump was chanting "lock her up" about Hillary setting a dangerous precedent, then he didn't pursue any litigation against her, but that gave the Democrats ammunition to try to nail Trump. There are senior Democrats including Nancy Pelosi on record stating their aim of getting Trump on any charge. Just look at the timing of the accusations against Trump and the repeated attempts to impeach Trump on spurious grounds. That is all political. Do we really want to impeach every outgoing president? You have to worry about how the system can be used against you in future when you are not in charge anymore. Now the Democrats are talking about packing the court with judges they like. 9 is not the mandatory number of judges, but if you add more judges, there will be no end to it. "grab them by the p*ssy" is a very vulgar thing to say indeed and not presidential, but not illegal. The American people got their chance to vote for the other party if it bothered them enough. Do you have proof of any of the claims did he really sexually assault a women. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, but the timing of the claims and the fact that the Democrats wheeled out a spurious accuser against Brett Kavanagh lead me to think that it is all political theatre and mudslinging. Trump is much worse with what he says than what he does. Trump tried to claim that Obama wasn't American as a political ploy playing on Xenophobia because Obama's dad wasn't American. I think the point is that Trump doesn't care how dirty he gets as long as he wins. That's not a good trait. Trump is right about Harris. She was stressing her Indian heritage, but now seems to be stressing her black heritage. That's what politicians do, obviously she is both so she can stress either one depending on her audience, but it doesn't come across as genuine.
This is not a productive conversation or a good use of our time. You or people like you are just going to try and push me into defending Trump then say that I'm an apologist if I don't take your statements at face value. All I am suggesting is that you scrutinize both sides to the same degree, actually because of the bias we should scrutinize our deeply held views even more.
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In this case the nugget is vanishingly small, but when it is taken out out context and you know what other opinions on abortion some people have in the Democrat party, then for many it doesn't seem like much of a leap. Some people will say that it is the slipping of the mask and that is his true belief. I would demand much further proof to actually accuse him of supporting infanticide. 
