| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? 13:49 - Nov 14 with 9769 views | Chris_ITFC |
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| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 21:13 - Nov 15 with 988 views | thebooks |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 18:57 - Nov 14 by grow_our_own |
True it's VC funded, but BlueSky was started by the main protagonist behind Twitter, the person who made it so successful before Musk took over: Jack Dorsey.
It is fundamentally different in that it's open source. It can't become a hell-hole to the same extent as X because the project can be forked (a copy made of the source code, and then a new app created).
Also, it's based on an open source protocol (AT) that other micro-blogging apps can use besides BlueSky. So again, if it becomes dystopian, people can jump ship to another app that supports AT without losing your identity, followers, etc.
I hope the club, and everything else ITFC related at least starts cross-posting to BlueSky with a view to it becoming the primary social media platform. |
Jack Dorsey left the Bluesky board a while back (and his presence is not a good thing anyway; he’s a right wing Crypto nutjob).
Blockchain Cap is now Bluesky’s main funder and has a place on its board. It was co-founded by Brock Pierce – Steve Bannon chum, big Russia links, far-right 2020 presidential candidate.
I understand what open source software is, thanks.
The main problem with Atpro is that it’s not really federated. True, you can outsource storing your profile, but all the relays are centralised and run by Bluesky.
Bluesky is a well-designed service (VC-backed services understand the need to be usable in order to attract customers). The problem is relying on these sorts of companies longterm, as we can see with Twitter.
You’re right though – Town should crosspost, with its own website as the source of all its content. That way it wouldn’t have to rely on a platform. |  | | |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 22:17 - Nov 15 with 931 views | grow_our_own |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 21:13 - Nov 15 by thebooks |
Jack Dorsey left the Bluesky board a while back (and his presence is not a good thing anyway; he’s a right wing Crypto nutjob).
Blockchain Cap is now Bluesky’s main funder and has a place on its board. It was co-founded by Brock Pierce – Steve Bannon chum, big Russia links, far-right 2020 presidential candidate.
I understand what open source software is, thanks.
The main problem with Atpro is that it’s not really federated. True, you can outsource storing your profile, but all the relays are centralised and run by Bluesky.
Bluesky is a well-designed service (VC-backed services understand the need to be usable in order to attract customers). The problem is relying on these sorts of companies longterm, as we can see with Twitter.
You’re right though – Town should crosspost, with its own website as the source of all its content. That way it wouldn’t have to rely on a platform. |
"BC was co-founded by Brock Pierce – Steve Bannon chum, big Russia links, far-right..." Pierce left BC in 2017. They only invested in BlueSky last month.
True about the relays, but they've plans to open source them too. Still early days at BlueSky.
"these sorts of companies" - you think micro-blogging will better reside in a public govt org? |  | | |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 22:50 - Nov 15 with 902 views | tractorshark |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 20:36 - Nov 15 by You_Bloo_Right |
Freedom of speech? Yep gets my vote. But as with all rights, the right to freedom of speech comes with responsibility.
Even the French Revolution had this to say in the Declaration of the Rights of Man:
11. The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of man. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom, but shall be responsible for such abuses of this freedom as shall be defined by law.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/rightsof.asp
One of the issues with social media it seems to me is that those who abuse the right to freedom of speech on social media platforms are seldom held to account in any meaningful way (some high profile exceptions to this of course) and everything degenerates into the keyboard warrior's equivalent of "chat sh1t, get hit".
Those who operate these platforms claim no responsibility and it is indeed a tricky area - you can't fact check everything posted (well you could but it would take an age and cost a fortune). However, when a platform is effectively un-moderated and owned by an individual who seems happy to promote lies as not even just opinion but fact there has to come a point when things must change. |
100% agree social media is as lawless as the Wild West. And that’s all social media, not just Twitter.
Musk riles people because he openly admits he uses his platform to promote his interests.
But then so many did the same on the likes of Facebook when it came to Brexit. So many lies and yet still no one has been called to account.
Twitter is a very complex demographic where one week you can be battered with right wing views and then the next it’s deluged with left wingers getting offended on everyone’s behalf.
For me, Musk has taken a lot of the fun out of it and I don’t care for his views.
Whether football clubs leaving Twitter will make a difference to him, I doubt it. He’s already shown he’s got enough money to make a huge loss on Twitter and not give a hoot.
But there is a gap in the market for an alternative platform right now. Just don’t expect it to be regulated, politically neutral or without agenda. | | | |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 08:07 - Nov 16 with 823 views | thebooks |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 22:17 - Nov 15 by grow_our_own |
"BC was co-founded by Brock Pierce – Steve Bannon chum, big Russia links, far-right..." Pierce left BC in 2017. They only invested in BlueSky last month.
True about the relays, but they've plans to open source them too. Still early days at BlueSky.
"these sorts of companies" - you think micro-blogging will better reside in a public govt org? |
True that Pierce moved on, but I still wouldn’t trust any crypto VC firm with anything. You *have* to ask what do they want for their investment.
It may be recent, but BC is by far the biggest single investor, and has a place on the Bluesky board. We can already see Arc browser getting worse (I wanted to use another term there but the filter snagged it) because it’s too niche to give Thrive a return.
How we pay for online stuff is a huge problem. I think we need more not-for-profits. I’m not a huge fan of Ghost, but that shows a way to run a sustainable, professional service. But then you look at the way Mozilla’s going.
Just normal, smaller sized companies. micro.blog itself, for example (although that’s too reliant on Manton and is proprietary).
Mastodon has many problems, but a more anarchist, federated and smaller model does work. I pay a voluntary $1/month towards my instance’s costs. Instances can be small enough to be run as a hobbyist thing.
To the original point, all good reasons for orgs to publish everything to their website first and then syndicate to wherever. | | | |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 09:15 - Nov 16 with 786 views | GlasgowBlue |
Taking aside what the club does or does not do regarding twitter, I’m not sure that it’s going to be good for public discourse if social media fragments into a conservative and a liberal platform. Both will end up as echo chambers with people who hold the same views taking to themselves. That will lead to even more polarising politics. [Post edited 16 Nov 2024 9:22]
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| Indeed on 09:49 - Nov 16 with 777 views | Dyland |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 21:44 - Nov 14 by Guthrum |
I thought it was the state now owned by a media platform? |
Another gear grinder... Microsoft could effectively bring our country to a grinding halt if they terminated Office licenses. Obviously that would require some dodgy changes to their T&Cs but they are guilty of this anyway, and let's face it they are richer than the UK and like all rich entities with quarterly figures and profit to worry about, they will continue bullying sorry I mean lobbying as quietly as they can.
Nice to see Clare Barclay (CEO of Microsoft UK) as the Chair of the Industrial Council reviewing our government's new Industrial Strategy. Not.
Text and data mining opt-out via consultation (rather than a fair and ethical and perfectly feasible opt-in) incoming... and must be fought tooth and naii.
The world is fooked, unless people stop relying on the internet for everything.
EDIT: for typos [Post edited 16 Nov 2024 10:17]
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| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 10:37 - Nov 16 with 744 views | Ryorry |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 20:36 - Nov 15 by You_Bloo_Right |
Freedom of speech? Yep gets my vote. But as with all rights, the right to freedom of speech comes with responsibility.
Even the French Revolution had this to say in the Declaration of the Rights of Man:
11. The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of man. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom, but shall be responsible for such abuses of this freedom as shall be defined by law.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/rightsof.asp
One of the issues with social media it seems to me is that those who abuse the right to freedom of speech on social media platforms are seldom held to account in any meaningful way (some high profile exceptions to this of course) and everything degenerates into the keyboard warrior's equivalent of "chat sh1t, get hit".
Those who operate these platforms claim no responsibility and it is indeed a tricky area - you can't fact check everything posted (well you could but it would take an age and cost a fortune). However, when a platform is effectively un-moderated and owned by an individual who seems happy to promote lies as not even just opinion but fact there has to come a point when things must change. |
Agree of course, but I'm with Peter here & will stay on X till it becomes unbearable -
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| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 11:05 - Nov 16 with 723 views | Kievthegreat |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 09:15 - Nov 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Taking aside what the club does or does not do regarding twitter, I’m not sure that it’s going to be good for public discourse if social media fragments into a conservative and a liberal platform. Both will end up as echo chambers with people who hold the same views taking to themselves. That will lead to even more polarising politics. [Post edited 16 Nov 2024 9:22]
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I get the concern, but echo chambers is a fundamental to how social media works. People want to listen to certain voices, so they like those people/orgs. It may get amplified if they change platform, but I think it'll be temporary. I reckon plenty from the more 'mainstream right' may move across in time, especially as the size of BlueSky increases, a sort of snowball effect. FT have several journalists very active on BlueSky (I follow most of them!), the first Conservative MP has joined in the last 24 hours (Not following him, but he is rather amusingly named Ben Obese-Jecty and I'm sure more MPs, journalists, etc... will continue to join. There are already plenty of voices in the "echo chamber", but nothing is stopping more people joining.
I'd also point out that it's not purely a 'liberals hate Elon so let's leave' thing. The first big spike of people joining BlueSky was actually before the US election, when Elon made fundamental changes to the block feature.
From my perspective, Musk made Twitter a cesspit of hate where people could harass with impunity, call people n****rs while not "breaking the T&Cs" and he courted and promoted far right extremists (Tommy Robinson, Britain First, etc).
However he also devalued all interactions and discussions. One of the things on old twitter was there would be loads of discussion in replies. You didn't just interact with the main tweet, you could follow different discussions further down, sometimes with the author, sometimes other readers. Instead he changed it so paid responses went top and so every tweet was filled with vacuous nonsense to chase impressions. The interesting things and potential discussions were relegated out of view. This wasn't a left vs right issue, but a usability issue.
In the end though, the thing that actually made me move was that there was a viable alternative. Enough of the accounts I followed were moving other such that I could keep up to date on important things. I reckon this is a snowball and that it's likely to gather more people of a wider political persuasion as it goes. |  | | |
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| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 11:23 - Nov 16 with 683 views | Ryorry |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 11:05 - Nov 16 by Kievthegreat |
I get the concern, but echo chambers is a fundamental to how social media works. People want to listen to certain voices, so they like those people/orgs. It may get amplified if they change platform, but I think it'll be temporary. I reckon plenty from the more 'mainstream right' may move across in time, especially as the size of BlueSky increases, a sort of snowball effect. FT have several journalists very active on BlueSky (I follow most of them!), the first Conservative MP has joined in the last 24 hours (Not following him, but he is rather amusingly named Ben Obese-Jecty and I'm sure more MPs, journalists, etc... will continue to join. There are already plenty of voices in the "echo chamber", but nothing is stopping more people joining.
I'd also point out that it's not purely a 'liberals hate Elon so let's leave' thing. The first big spike of people joining BlueSky was actually before the US election, when Elon made fundamental changes to the block feature.
From my perspective, Musk made Twitter a cesspit of hate where people could harass with impunity, call people n****rs while not "breaking the T&Cs" and he courted and promoted far right extremists (Tommy Robinson, Britain First, etc).
However he also devalued all interactions and discussions. One of the things on old twitter was there would be loads of discussion in replies. You didn't just interact with the main tweet, you could follow different discussions further down, sometimes with the author, sometimes other readers. Instead he changed it so paid responses went top and so every tweet was filled with vacuous nonsense to chase impressions. The interesting things and potential discussions were relegated out of view. This wasn't a left vs right issue, but a usability issue.
In the end though, the thing that actually made me move was that there was a viable alternative. Enough of the accounts I followed were moving other such that I could keep up to date on important things. I reckon this is a snowball and that it's likely to gather more people of a wider political persuasion as it goes. |
Absolutely correct re the block facility & devaluing of replies. However, one reason I won't move is that as I said on another thread, I'm in agreement with this -
Second reason is lack of knowledge of alternative platforms apart from fb (which I abhor but have to use occasionally for practical reasons). Is BlueSky really the best there is? | |
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| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 11:41 - Nov 16 with 669 views | Kievthegreat |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 11:23 - Nov 16 by Ryorry |
Absolutely correct re the block facility & devaluing of replies. However, one reason I won't move is that as I said on another thread, I'm in agreement with this -
Second reason is lack of knowledge of alternative platforms apart from fb (which I abhor but have to use occasionally for practical reasons). Is BlueSky really the best there is? |
I understand his principle, but I don't feel like I have the energy to fight on towards an inevitable (IMHO) and vainglorious defeat. I mean if we say it's important to stay and provide balance, should we not be doing the same on Truth Social as well? In the end, it feels like the goal of Elon's Twitter was to amplify certain politics and in the end, the guy with all the levers is bound to win. Sometimes the best way to win is to not play the game.
Also, I am not attached to twitter, so I'll happily go elsewhere if it no longer serves a worthwhile purpose to me. In the same way that I no longer really use Facebook (still exists for occasionally using messenger or posting something to family, but mostly just an archive now). These are services, the communities are actually the people in them, and if they move to pastures new it made sense for me to dip my toe over there as well.
I never tried threads, so I can't judge that. However BlueSky essentially copies twitter from about 2 years ago in terms of user interface and probably 5+ years ago in terms of user interactions. I think it's a breath of fresh air ATM. Maybe it's a honeymoon and it will degrade, but even if it was as bad as just before Elon took over (let's not kid ourselves that Twitter was a utopian vision of social harmony), that's still better than what's there now. [Post edited 16 Nov 2024 11:42]
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| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 12:05 - Nov 16 with 637 views | Ryorry |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 11:41 - Nov 16 by Kievthegreat |
I understand his principle, but I don't feel like I have the energy to fight on towards an inevitable (IMHO) and vainglorious defeat. I mean if we say it's important to stay and provide balance, should we not be doing the same on Truth Social as well? In the end, it feels like the goal of Elon's Twitter was to amplify certain politics and in the end, the guy with all the levers is bound to win. Sometimes the best way to win is to not play the game.
Also, I am not attached to twitter, so I'll happily go elsewhere if it no longer serves a worthwhile purpose to me. In the same way that I no longer really use Facebook (still exists for occasionally using messenger or posting something to family, but mostly just an archive now). These are services, the communities are actually the people in them, and if they move to pastures new it made sense for me to dip my toe over there as well.
I never tried threads, so I can't judge that. However BlueSky essentially copies twitter from about 2 years ago in terms of user interface and probably 5+ years ago in terms of user interactions. I think it's a breath of fresh air ATM. Maybe it's a honeymoon and it will degrade, but even if it was as bad as just before Elon took over (let's not kid ourselves that Twitter was a utopian vision of social harmony), that's still better than what's there now. [Post edited 16 Nov 2024 11:42]
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Good points 👍 | |
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| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 12:39 - Nov 16 with 587 views | Kievthegreat |
To answer the actual OP. I don't think the club should move completely from one to the other. However I think that they should cross post on both.
I do wonder however if changes will be made to the T&Cs for blue and gold tick accounts around not cross posting. | | | |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 13:30 - Nov 16 with 568 views | chicoazul |
Do you really believe the Ohio firefighters and police would agree with anything that might hurt Elon? |  |
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| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 13:46 - Nov 16 with 552 views | Kievthegreat |
| Would you support the Club doing this? Or do you disagree with it? on 13:30 - Nov 16 by chicoazul |
Do you really believe the Ohio firefighters and police would agree with anything that might hurt Elon? |
I don't think most would really care. | | | |
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