| So is Tesla destined for the bin? 18:13 - Mar 18 with 9137 views | bluelagos |
Shares and cars...
Would you go near either? [Post edited 18 Mar 18:17]
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| So is Tesla destined for the bin? on 13:47 - Mar 23 with 382 views | Kievthegreat |
| So is Tesla destined for the bin? on 11:53 - Mar 21 by Churchman |
Plenty of articles like this, but they maybe Musk hatred driven. I gather that peculiar cyber truck Trump was dribbling over disassembles trim parts, but that maybe myth.
https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/20/24009232/tesla-vehicles-have-serious-quality
It is a matter of opinion, but my experience of a very expensive (£50k plus) electric car is very much ‘if I have to’. Not only are they heavy road chewers, there was no fun or feel to the one I borrowed at all. Hellish fast though. The range on them is on an assumption you won’t accelerate. And driving it there’s a temptation to look at the range meter rather than the road.
There were plenty of toys on it, but no more than my planet eater. There are also changing in terms of range, reliability, tech which means if you buy one it’s resale value will plummet with rapid obsolescence.
I’ll obviously be forced to acquire one eventually, but let’s hope it has a decent range on it (500+ miles minimum) when that depressing day happens. Oh how I chuckled when the man at Gatwick was collecting his electric box was going nuts because they could only put x amount of charge in it and he said ‘I can’t get home on that. What am I supposed to do?’. I was tempted to suggest buying a car like mine with an engine in it that has a range of 550 miles, but decided he was depressed enough. |
Genuine question. Why is 500 miles your minimum? That's 7+ hours of constant motor way driving. 6 hours if you go 84mph and never drop below. How many times do you ever do that in one go without stopping for food or comfort breaks?
500 miles is never likely to be a standard range on a BEV because it's hideously inefficient for the a problem you highlight, it drives in weight. Another reason is that it is such a fringe use case that you'd be crazy to plan around it. It's why focus is put on recharging speed and efficiency. Most people driving 500+ miles don't do it without a stop* so focusing on charging networks and ability to charge more in a shorter times is a better goal for car manufacturers. The goal in industry is to get to a point where you can drive on the motorway for 3+ hours non-stop, stop for 30 minutes or less, then add and another 3 hours and repeat if necessary. This would work really well in Europe and on the North American coasts as there is enough civilisation there. The only places this actually becomes as issue in the Aussie outback and some of the empty Western states of Canada and America. There will be tweaking, to try and get closer to 4 hours drive and getting charging time lower, but 7+ hours non-stop is a non-starter from an engineering perspective on BEVs.
*an HGV driver can only drive 4.5 hours non-stop before having to stop for a 45 minute break so I'd argue anyone driving 500 miles without a stop is doing so unsafely. |  | | |
| So is Tesla destined for the bin? on 14:02 - Mar 23 with 340 views | Kievthegreat |
| So is Tesla destined for the bin? on 12:14 - Mar 21 by Churchman |
I think hydrogen has always been the answer. Just needs the clever people to make the fuel cheap enough.
Batteries consist of some of the most corrosive substances on the planet and yes, part of the land grabs is all about that as far as I’m aware. I gather a high percentage of them can be recycled but are they and who is paying for it? More questions than answers. |
Hydrogen is not the answer for personal vehicles, it may feature and be available, but it won't be the norm. Hydrogen requires far more energy than Battery powered vehicles and if people are worried about all the power generation we need for BEVs, Hydrogen is worse. It also requires far more expensive infrastructure than EVs.
The big advantage Hydrogen offers at a vehicle level is a higher energy density which is more akin to that of fossil fuels which is great in range and weight critical applications. It's why the best use for hydrogen on the road is actually HGVs. BEV HGVs are a fundamentally stupid idea. There are some ideas around wireless charging roadways or even the equivalent of trolley HGVs which could charge along the motorway, but these exist to deal with the issue that I hint at in a previous post. Increasing range means increasing battery size, which increases weight, which means you need an even bigger battery, etc... ad nauseum.
This is true on all vehicles no matter what the fuel (except nuclear I suppose). However in some cases it becomes critical, usually when range and payload mass are your critical factors like a passenger jet or a long distance truck. Sometimes adding more fuel/kWhs is just not worth it because of it's reduced effectiveness.
It's why Hydrogen is part of the mix, but not likely to be the solution. | | | |
| So is Tesla destined for the bin? on 14:21 - Mar 23 with 316 views | Churchman |
| So is Tesla destined for the bin? on 13:47 - Mar 23 by Kievthegreat |
Genuine question. Why is 500 miles your minimum? That's 7+ hours of constant motor way driving. 6 hours if you go 84mph and never drop below. How many times do you ever do that in one go without stopping for food or comfort breaks?
500 miles is never likely to be a standard range on a BEV because it's hideously inefficient for the a problem you highlight, it drives in weight. Another reason is that it is such a fringe use case that you'd be crazy to plan around it. It's why focus is put on recharging speed and efficiency. Most people driving 500+ miles don't do it without a stop* so focusing on charging networks and ability to charge more in a shorter times is a better goal for car manufacturers. The goal in industry is to get to a point where you can drive on the motorway for 3+ hours non-stop, stop for 30 minutes or less, then add and another 3 hours and repeat if necessary. This would work really well in Europe and on the North American coasts as there is enough civilisation there. The only places this actually becomes as issue in the Aussie outback and some of the empty Western states of Canada and America. There will be tweaking, to try and get closer to 4 hours drive and getting charging time lower, but 7+ hours non-stop is a non-starter from an engineering perspective on BEVs.
*an HGV driver can only drive 4.5 hours non-stop before having to stop for a 45 minute break so I'd argue anyone driving 500 miles without a stop is doing so unsafely. |
If I say do a trip to York by car, it’s about 220 miles. I would do that in one go or stop for a break anywhere I like. Am I guaranteed to find an accessible charging point that’s free when I’m there and do I want to spend my time worrying about it and searching for one and waiting for the expensive box to charge up?
Not only that, the published ranges of electric cars are inaccurate. If it says 300, you’ll probably have a lot less, especially if you have the temerity to accelerate or are stupid enough to go up a hill. I tried this with the one I borrowed. 5 miles of range equated to one measured mile when I tried it between J3 and J4 on the M25.
With a petrol car, you don’t have to worry about miles left, charging points. You are not tethered in any way. A car that can be refilled with petrol easily and quickly or has a range of 550 miles as one of ours does. When we stayed in Worcester a year or so ago, there was no charging points in the hotel car park. It was lovely, but with an electric vehicle had I got there (traffic was stop start all the way), that hotel would not have been an option.
It’s just how I see it.
When it comes to it I don’t care if a car is powered by consenting hamsters or nuclear fission as long as it works for me. Electric cars don’t at the moment however much that swivel eyed zealot with solar panels made in China, using coal powered power stations, assembled by possible slave labour Milliband tells me otherwise.
Hydrogen is the answer in my view. Each to their own. |  | | |
| So is Tesla destined for the bin? on 14:37 - Mar 23 with 294 views | bournemouthblue |
The most likely scenario is they force Musk out, a fairly large investor in Tesla was on Newsnight saying he really needs to go so there must be some talk already of this happening |  |
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