| Cameron Burgess 08:53 - Apr 3 with 2718 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
3 of our 4 wins have been with Burgess starting the game alongside O'Shea. If we are to do the unthinkable, he has to stay in the team for the remaining 8 games. These two want to defend and defend well and they look like our best partnership.
11 points won when they've partnered each other in the team, 9 points without.
His passing range down the left channel is brilliant. It's not an easy ball to play that he's executing with ease either. His passing range compared to Greaves is definitely a lot cleaner.
Nothing against Greaves as I think he's been ok overall, but I actually think Burgess is our better option on the left side. I couldn't tell you which one we had spent £16m on if I was a neutral.
[Post edited 3 Apr 8:54]
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| Cameron Burgess on 09:34 - Apr 3 with 2520 views | davblue |
Burgess has done well when he's played this year imo. Would be sad to see him leave.
If McKenna stays i thin k he will work his magic on a few more of those boys he got in last summer and Jan, it's just been too much for a few of them making the step up and learning the way we play. |  | | |
| Cameron Burgess on 09:42 - Apr 3 with 2478 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| Cameron Burgess on 09:34 - Apr 3 by davblue |
Burgess has done well when he's played this year imo. Would be sad to see him leave.
If McKenna stays i thin k he will work his magic on a few more of those boys he got in last summer and Jan, it's just been too much for a few of them making the step up and learning the way we play. |
It's a tough one for Burgess. He's at a really good age and deserves to be playing every week. I'm sure he will want to play more next season regardless of what league we are in, so I imagine that will probably be his priority, rather than a squad option here.
Who knows what he will decide, I'm sure he won't be short of options though as he's a reliable and honest left footed defender. If I was one of Celtic or Rangers, then there's potentially a very good free agent coming up... | |
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| Cameron Burgess on 10:08 - Apr 3 with 2398 views | Garv |
If McKenna hasn't had an eye on the future development of the team with his team selections I'd be very surprised.
Almost everything has told me Burgess is the better option for LCB and has been all season. The exclusion of both him and Broadhead from the starting XI in most games since the window closed has really confused me. |  |
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| Cameron Burgess on 11:24 - Apr 3 with 2206 views | LankHenners |
It's an interesting one. Easy to forget than when Greaves first signed everyone was taken aback by how good he was - having the same 'head it and kick it' ability as Burgess but more aggressive in his defending and better at progressing the ball forwards. He gets injured, Burgess comes in and performs well, everyone flips their opinion and decides Burgess is better, Greaves struggles for form and confidence once he's back in and it's at the point where he's almost being written off completely.
I still think Burgess' passing ability is being overhyped quite a bit. He has the party trick of curling the ball down the channel which has come from having a whole season of being able to do that to Davis pretty much at will whereas Prem teams are much wiser at shutting that avenue off. Generally speaking it's still a bit slow and ropey for this level. I still remember the Leicester game where we had a sustained period of possession but every time Burgess tried to push the ball through the lines he gave it away and McKenna was going absolutely bezerk at him from the touchline.
That said, there's maybe something to be said for playing the man in form while we have a (slim) chance of pulling off the impossible. In any case think if we're pinning defensive improvements on one player it's got to be having Tuanzebe back. Him and Johnson struck up a good partnership at Spurs and locked Son out of the game almost entirely and did similar with Kerkez last night. Maybe just stick with that pairing as well for now. |  |
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| Cameron Burgess on 11:35 - Apr 3 with 2147 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| Cameron Burgess on 11:24 - Apr 3 by LankHenners |
It's an interesting one. Easy to forget than when Greaves first signed everyone was taken aback by how good he was - having the same 'head it and kick it' ability as Burgess but more aggressive in his defending and better at progressing the ball forwards. He gets injured, Burgess comes in and performs well, everyone flips their opinion and decides Burgess is better, Greaves struggles for form and confidence once he's back in and it's at the point where he's almost being written off completely.
I still think Burgess' passing ability is being overhyped quite a bit. He has the party trick of curling the ball down the channel which has come from having a whole season of being able to do that to Davis pretty much at will whereas Prem teams are much wiser at shutting that avenue off. Generally speaking it's still a bit slow and ropey for this level. I still remember the Leicester game where we had a sustained period of possession but every time Burgess tried to push the ball through the lines he gave it away and McKenna was going absolutely bezerk at him from the touchline.
That said, there's maybe something to be said for playing the man in form while we have a (slim) chance of pulling off the impossible. In any case think if we're pinning defensive improvements on one player it's got to be having Tuanzebe back. Him and Johnson struck up a good partnership at Spurs and locked Son out of the game almost entirely and did similar with Kerkez last night. Maybe just stick with that pairing as well for now. |
I think Greaves has been ok overall this season. I don't think he's set the world alight, but I don't think he's been terrible. He started strong with a really good debut against Liverpool, but that has been his best performance this season in my opinion and I don't think he has replicated a performance since. Burgess just looks sharper currently so I'd stick with him next to O'Shea.
It's the technique and accuracy of that ball into the left channel. It's a small area of the pitch to aim for, but his execution is usually bang on. Rarely does he over or under hit it. | |
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| Cameron Burgess on 12:02 - Apr 3 with 2043 views | TractorJack |
Him and O'Shea defended the box superbly. Had to look up the amount of clearances and it was 14 for O'Shea and 13 for Burg. |  | | |
| Cameron Burgess on 12:33 - Apr 3 with 1941 views | Nutkins_Return |
Burgess should start the next game if fully fit. Long term Greaves is the better option but he's still learning the game and us. Young Centre back who has everything want though. |  |
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| Cameron Burgess on 13:58 - Apr 3 with 1729 views | pointofblue |
I think the issue has been Tuanzebe's constant battle with injuries coupled with Johnson's lack of defensive ability. That has resulted in O'Shea moving to the right and Woolfenden coming into the team. Whether rightly or wrongly, McKenna has not wanted to play Woolfenden and Burgess in a two which has resulted, in turn, in Greaves coming in.
In fairness, Woolfenden and Greaves were a decent partnership early in the season. It's only post injury that Greaves has looked off the pace. | |
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| Cameron Burgess on 18:26 - Apr 3 with 1486 views | Garv |
| Cameron Burgess on 11:24 - Apr 3 by LankHenners |
It's an interesting one. Easy to forget than when Greaves first signed everyone was taken aback by how good he was - having the same 'head it and kick it' ability as Burgess but more aggressive in his defending and better at progressing the ball forwards. He gets injured, Burgess comes in and performs well, everyone flips their opinion and decides Burgess is better, Greaves struggles for form and confidence once he's back in and it's at the point where he's almost being written off completely.
I still think Burgess' passing ability is being overhyped quite a bit. He has the party trick of curling the ball down the channel which has come from having a whole season of being able to do that to Davis pretty much at will whereas Prem teams are much wiser at shutting that avenue off. Generally speaking it's still a bit slow and ropey for this level. I still remember the Leicester game where we had a sustained period of possession but every time Burgess tried to push the ball through the lines he gave it away and McKenna was going absolutely bezerk at him from the touchline.
That said, there's maybe something to be said for playing the man in form while we have a (slim) chance of pulling off the impossible. In any case think if we're pinning defensive improvements on one player it's got to be having Tuanzebe back. Him and Johnson struck up a good partnership at Spurs and locked Son out of the game almost entirely and did similar with Kerkez last night. Maybe just stick with that pairing as well for now. |
I have to say I think the line that Greaves was progressing the ball well early in the season is a complete myth.
Played well against Liverpool, but so did everyone. I think they were running on pure adrenaline that day. Since then I haven't really enjoyed watching Greaves at all. | |
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| Cameron Burgess on 22:14 - Apr 3 with 1244 views | BlueForYou |
Burgess has become a fantastic player, should 100% start every game. Wouldn't mind seeing him captain the side, see a good leader in him. |  | | |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:18 - Apr 3 with 1215 views | Swailsey |
To me this is the second biggest failing of the season after Muric. Cam should never have been dropped to begin with. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Cameron Burgess on 22:22 - Apr 3 with 1182 views | olimar |
| Cameron Burgess on 10:08 - Apr 3 by Garv |
If McKenna hasn't had an eye on the future development of the team with his team selections I'd be very surprised.
Almost everything has told me Burgess is the better option for LCB and has been all season. The exclusion of both him and Broadhead from the starting XI in most games since the window closed has really confused me. |
Maybe youve answered that yourself, that he doesnt see Burgess (whos doesnt have a contract here in 3 months time) and Broadhead (who was going to be loaned out back in August and has at least 2 strong competitors for his position) as players for our future.
We have been a little spoilt in recent years by being able to bring in players who were either already at a level above, or were comfortable at the level we were at, and dropping them into a team that was functioning really well. Thats a great combination to hit the ground running with a new team.
Now, we are bringing in players who are having to adjust to a level perhaps slightly above them currently, into a team that isnt functioning as well as it would like, and it makes that transition a lot harder.
But ultimately, they are players with higher ceilings and perhaps McKennas is factoring that in- which would be more than understandable given the investment. | | | |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:23 - Apr 3 with 1174 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:18 - Apr 3 by Swailsey |
To me this is the second biggest failing of the season after Muric. Cam should never have been dropped to begin with. |
Greaves did well first up. Deserved his place. But he has never actually re-earned it with performances. Burgess, currently, is the better player in nearly every respect and should start. | | | |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:29 - Apr 3 with 1106 views | Chocorange |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:14 - Apr 3 by BlueForYou |
Burgess has become a fantastic player, should 100% start every game. Wouldn't mind seeing him captain the side, see a good leader in him. |
Enjoyed watching that ball down the left several times last night, it is a frustrating part of Greaves game that he won’t play that pass even when Davis is literally begging him too. Instead it’s safe and sure across the back 4 while the opposition reorganise.
A lot of our excellent play over the time since KM has been here has been attacking at pave and passing into slave with willing runners
The recruitment in the summer looked to me that we knew we wouldn’t have as much of the ball and therefore brought in players who were fast and or confident with the ball …to counter attack at pace ….so to then slow play down the way Greaves does …. Even when we are losing ( the Man U game very frustrating) is counter intuitive.
Greaves has a lot of good attributes but right now Burgess offers us what we need , strong defending, fast distribution, aerial ability , body on the line … get him signed up on a new contract!
Great shout on the stats on points from games where Cameron and O’Shea have started …and did anyone see the huge grin on O’Shea face at the end of the match last night.. plain to see how much it meant to him. |  | | |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:31 - Apr 3 with 1083 views | Garv |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:22 - Apr 3 by olimar |
Maybe youve answered that yourself, that he doesnt see Burgess (whos doesnt have a contract here in 3 months time) and Broadhead (who was going to be loaned out back in August and has at least 2 strong competitors for his position) as players for our future.
We have been a little spoilt in recent years by being able to bring in players who were either already at a level above, or were comfortable at the level we were at, and dropping them into a team that was functioning really well. Thats a great combination to hit the ground running with a new team.
Now, we are bringing in players who are having to adjust to a level perhaps slightly above them currently, into a team that isnt functioning as well as it would like, and it makes that transition a lot harder.
But ultimately, they are players with higher ceilings and perhaps McKennas is factoring that in- which would be more than understandable given the investment. |
I guess my counter argument would be that it's not all that understandable, given how we wanted to stay in the league.
Play your best and most in form players, especially if they are familiar with the team, system and club in general. If you want to bed in new players with higher ceilings do it by drip feeding them minutes and then later on make the absolute most of pre season, don't just chuck them in and feed them to the wolves.
No pun intended. | |
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| Cameron Burgess on 22:37 - Apr 3 with 1033 views | olimar |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:31 - Apr 3 by Garv |
I guess my counter argument would be that it's not all that understandable, given how we wanted to stay in the league.
Play your best and most in form players, especially if they are familiar with the team, system and club in general. If you want to bed in new players with higher ceilings do it by drip feeding them minutes and then later on make the absolute most of pre season, don't just chuck them in and feed them to the wolves.
No pun intended. |
Its a fair point.
The assumption would be that the players of lower calibre will be found out in various circumstances and the better player might be found out simply through process of adjustment, but ultimately will improve.
Its hard to ignore how effective Burgess has been in most of his performances (and Woolfenden too recently) and maybe as a club we underestimated a little just where his ceiling actually is. But its also possible that hes getting to play in games that have suited his style- no doubt games where we sit deep absolutely suit him and protect him.
Think youre ultimately right that he probably deserves to have played more, but I dont think Greaves has been particularly dreadful either and to the neutral, was a better player than Burgess last season too. | | | |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:46 - Apr 3 with 1005 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Cameron Burgess on 22:37 - Apr 3 by olimar |
Its a fair point.
The assumption would be that the players of lower calibre will be found out in various circumstances and the better player might be found out simply through process of adjustment, but ultimately will improve.
Its hard to ignore how effective Burgess has been in most of his performances (and Woolfenden too recently) and maybe as a club we underestimated a little just where his ceiling actually is. But its also possible that hes getting to play in games that have suited his style- no doubt games where we sit deep absolutely suit him and protect him.
Think youre ultimately right that he probably deserves to have played more, but I dont think Greaves has been particularly dreadful either and to the neutral, was a better player than Burgess last season too. |
Greaves' last start was genuinely disasterous. | | | |
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