| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 13:59 - Apr 6 with 1028 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 13:57 - Apr 6 by leitrimblue |
I mean it's not quite a fully grown homo sapien sitting on them is it? More like a pale oompa loompa |
Are they not leprechauns? |  |
|  |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 14:01 - Apr 6 with 1016 views | leitrimblue |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 13:59 - Apr 6 by J2BLUE |
Are they not leprechauns? |
No chance, Leprechauns are way to busy exploring the far ends of rainbows for pots of gold |  | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 14:14 - Apr 6 with 980 views | Leathersblueblood |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 11:17 - Apr 6 by stonojnr |
you literally cant force a horse to do anything it doesnt want to do, half a ton of animal if it doesnt want to jump a fence, it wont, if youd ever handled horses, youd know that. |
on the flip side to that, the horse i backed fell at the 3rd fence, and iam still amazed now that it carried on and jumped every fence on the first circuit at least, so must of enjoyed it, Duffel Coat was its name, a grey horse, couldnt believe it. |  | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 16:45 - Apr 6 with 909 views | Ryorry |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 13:19 - Apr 6 by BloomBlue |
Rubbish, any animal can be forced to do something, even if it doesn't want to do. You should go to Asia and see how they forced trained elephants years ago to do what humans want, and believe me elephants are bigger than horses.
If horse racing was that concerned they would ban the whip. The whip is used when a horse has decided it doesn't want to run as fast as the jockey wants it to run, but surprise, surprise, the horse runs quicker, ie it's being forced. It's animal cruelty.
If you're point was valid, why don't they just simply get a dozen wild horse in each race and stick on a jockey on and run towards the fences? It's because they wouldn't run and jump, and that's because they haven't been forced trained to take a saddle and a human, jump fences and/or run in a circle. Why do they stick extra weights on them? To force slow them down.
The sooner it's banned the better. |
I've no problem with people criticising horseracing for the aspects of it which are still a legitimate concern (some trainers still not allowing their horses sufficient time out in paddocks; insufficient time being given to strengthening 2 year-olds legs e.g.) - but your spouting fake equivalence from a position of total ignorance is another matter.
There is no comparison whatsoever to be made between the unregulated, horrific weapons used on elephants which really hurt (torture) them into complying (I won't post distressing images, they are easy to find using any search); and the stringent regulations applied to British horseracing & use of the whip, which is an implement so much modified that it's been proven not to actually hurt.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/oct/18/jockeys-whip-didnt-hurt |  |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 17:57 - Apr 6 with 840 views | mutters |
Simple answer, ban the sport. I know there are some and lots that enjoy racing, however any horse dying during a forced "sport" simply for human pleasure is one too many.
It's always baffled me how long this sport has been allowed to continue. Over the last ,25 years, 66 horses have died during the three day event, so 2/3 per year.
I know this evokes passion from some, especially those on the betting industry but in a civilised society, do we really need to flog animals and put them in these situations just for human pleasure? |  |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:00 - Apr 6 with 821 views | Mullet |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 17:57 - Apr 6 by mutters |
Simple answer, ban the sport. I know there are some and lots that enjoy racing, however any horse dying during a forced "sport" simply for human pleasure is one too many.
It's always baffled me how long this sport has been allowed to continue. Over the last ,25 years, 66 horses have died during the three day event, so 2/3 per year.
I know this evokes passion from some, especially those on the betting industry but in a civilised society, do we really need to flog animals and put them in these situations just for human pleasure? |
It’s a vile sport but it’s one for the gentry and the royals traditionally. The way people at the races get coked up and fight is also seemingly seen as different to football fans doing it. The money involved means it’ll never get banned despite being a blood sport and vehicle for gambling. |  |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:09 - Apr 6 with 792 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 17:57 - Apr 6 by mutters |
Simple answer, ban the sport. I know there are some and lots that enjoy racing, however any horse dying during a forced "sport" simply for human pleasure is one too many.
It's always baffled me how long this sport has been allowed to continue. Over the last ,25 years, 66 horses have died during the three day event, so 2/3 per year.
I know this evokes passion from some, especially those on the betting industry but in a civilised society, do we really need to flog animals and put them in these situations just for human pleasure? |
I know I will get stick for this but I do think it's relevant. Do you eat meat? I find it really odd that so many people who think nothing of eating meat on a daily basis have such a problem with horse racing. Of course people eating meat doesn't give other people the right to force bears to dance or dogs to fight etc but horses are generally loved by their owners and the stable workers who care for them. They get to run free, get good medical care and the best food.
If I was forced to come back as an animal used by humans, a race horse would be top of my list. The nightmare would be a factory farmed animal.
I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy from many people. If people want to argue that no animals should be used in any form by humans I can't argue with that. I just think there's a bit of jumping on the bandwagon to stick it to the gambling industry (TWTD's favourite hobby).
Also, if you were to suggest jumps racing be banned I also would not have much of an argument.
I hope people actually accept the point because too often on here people shout whataboutery and refuse to consider anything in context. It's very childish. My debate, my rules. It's pathetic.
Full disclosure: Horse racing is probably 50%ish of my job. Without it, my job would not exist. Feel free to use that against me if you feel it's relevant. | |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:18 - Apr 6 with 765 views | BarcaBlue |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:09 - Apr 6 by J2BLUE |
I know I will get stick for this but I do think it's relevant. Do you eat meat? I find it really odd that so many people who think nothing of eating meat on a daily basis have such a problem with horse racing. Of course people eating meat doesn't give other people the right to force bears to dance or dogs to fight etc but horses are generally loved by their owners and the stable workers who care for them. They get to run free, get good medical care and the best food.
If I was forced to come back as an animal used by humans, a race horse would be top of my list. The nightmare would be a factory farmed animal.
I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy from many people. If people want to argue that no animals should be used in any form by humans I can't argue with that. I just think there's a bit of jumping on the bandwagon to stick it to the gambling industry (TWTD's favourite hobby).
Also, if you were to suggest jumps racing be banned I also would not have much of an argument.
I hope people actually accept the point because too often on here people shout whataboutery and refuse to consider anything in context. It's very childish. My debate, my rules. It's pathetic.
Full disclosure: Horse racing is probably 50%ish of my job. Without it, my job would not exist. Feel free to use that against me if you feel it's relevant. |
Same arguments are used for supporting bullfighting in deep darkest Spain. The bulls live a great life up to the last 20 minutes or so. Not all end up in a ring and they wouldn't exist and be bred if it wasn't for bullfighting. It's also a social event, employs lots of people and a tradition going back centuries. It's still very wrong though. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:23 - Apr 6 with 748 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:18 - Apr 6 by BarcaBlue |
Same arguments are used for supporting bullfighting in deep darkest Spain. The bulls live a great life up to the last 20 minutes or so. Not all end up in a ring and they wouldn't exist and be bred if it wasn't for bullfighting. It's also a social event, employs lots of people and a tradition going back centuries. It's still very wrong though. |
I knew someone would make that point which is why I mentioned bears and dog fighting but you chose to ignore that.
With bull fighting, the point is to kill the bull right?
With horse racing a vet ls driven along just behind the horses to give them immediate medical attention if needed.
So by all means criticise but lets not make daft comparisons. | |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:30 - Apr 6 with 724 views | BarcaBlue |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:23 - Apr 6 by J2BLUE |
I knew someone would make that point which is why I mentioned bears and dog fighting but you chose to ignore that.
With bull fighting, the point is to kill the bull right?
With horse racing a vet ls driven along just behind the horses to give them immediate medical attention if needed.
So by all means criticise but lets not make daft comparisons. |
It's not daft at all. I'm comparing the justification of two legal traditional sports, the arguments you make are exactly the ones I've heard here. I ignored dogs, bears, cocks whatever as they are not comparable. | | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:41 - Apr 6 with 678 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:30 - Apr 6 by BarcaBlue |
It's not daft at all. I'm comparing the justification of two legal traditional sports, the arguments you make are exactly the ones I've heard here. I ignored dogs, bears, cocks whatever as they are not comparable. |
Where the point of one is literally to kill the animal.
If you think they are the same then we have nothing more to say to each other. | |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:41 - Apr 6 with 679 views | mutters |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:09 - Apr 6 by J2BLUE |
I know I will get stick for this but I do think it's relevant. Do you eat meat? I find it really odd that so many people who think nothing of eating meat on a daily basis have such a problem with horse racing. Of course people eating meat doesn't give other people the right to force bears to dance or dogs to fight etc but horses are generally loved by their owners and the stable workers who care for them. They get to run free, get good medical care and the best food.
If I was forced to come back as an animal used by humans, a race horse would be top of my list. The nightmare would be a factory farmed animal.
I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy from many people. If people want to argue that no animals should be used in any form by humans I can't argue with that. I just think there's a bit of jumping on the bandwagon to stick it to the gambling industry (TWTD's favourite hobby).
Also, if you were to suggest jumps racing be banned I also would not have much of an argument.
I hope people actually accept the point because too often on here people shout whataboutery and refuse to consider anything in context. It's very childish. My debate, my rules. It's pathetic.
Full disclosure: Horse racing is probably 50%ish of my job. Without it, my job would not exist. Feel free to use that against me if you feel it's relevant. |
It's an absolute good point to raise when talking about these topics, and when I posted my initial response I suspected that this may be a response I got (not that I think anybody would really be interested in my general rambling 😂).
So yes I do eat meat, not huge amounts, certainly less than I did when I was in my 20s, but enough to say that I am a carnivore. I have actively reduced my meat intake, but not at vegetarian levels, and have no plans to be. Also I am a huge animal lover (not in that way!), have cats, dogs various animals around the home.
The major difference in my mind is that a civilised society we are choosing to use animals for sport and using them in a way where a large percentage of them actually die through over working. I have no issues with animals being used by humans (sheepdogs, farm horses etc) so long as their health and wellbeing is considered important enough not to put them in a position that they could actually die. Now some farmers treat their animals horrifically, so it's not always industry specific, more people being w@nkers.
The whole concept of raising animals for food is very different in my mind. The world is changing and we will eventually I imagine move away from animals being the main protein source in the future, the planet will not be able to sustain it and so alternatives will be sort, whether that's plant based or insect based, or another new source, time will tell. Food production to feed people is very different to sport. Some times its a necessary evil. Lots of people in the world are very anti climate change but they are still forced to use cars (for example) as their lives require it.
Now it's great that these horses are treated fantastically serving their master, until they are no longer needed and shot. Another post highlighted the difficulties of treating a horse that had broken it's leg, a lot seems to come down to cost, maybe if the betting industry spent some of that cash they earn and invested it in rehabilitation of these horses then it would be a different conversation. | |
| |
| Just ban everything.... on 18:42 - Apr 6 with 674 views | Bloots |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:30 - Apr 6 by BarcaBlue |
It's not daft at all. I'm comparing the justification of two legal traditional sports, the arguments you make are exactly the ones I've heard here. I ignored dogs, bears, cocks whatever as they are not comparable. |
....all sports, driving, fast food, cycling, booze, smoking, planes, farting, boats, pets, vaping, coffee, zoos, gambling, the internet, hats, television, moustaches, porn, bicuits......
Etc, etc.
Sorted.
End. |  |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:45 - Apr 6 with 669 views | Ryorry |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:30 - Apr 6 by BarcaBlue |
It's not daft at all. I'm comparing the justification of two legal traditional sports, the arguments you make are exactly the ones I've heard here. I ignored dogs, bears, cocks whatever as they are not comparable. |
So answer J2's question - do you eat meat (or eggs or drink milk)?
If you do, you're a hypocrite, as assuming all those animals get the best welfare standards care (which isn't always the case), they too only get it till the last few minutes of their lives. | |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:47 - Apr 6 with 668 views | BarcaBlue |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:41 - Apr 6 by J2BLUE |
Where the point of one is literally to kill the animal.
If you think they are the same then we have nothing more to say to each other. |
You are deliberately missing the point. The justification for two cruel sports is exactly the same and that's what I'm comparing. One is arguably crueller than the other but I'm not comparing levels of cruelty here. | | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:55 - Apr 6 with 661 views | Ryorry |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:41 - Apr 6 by mutters |
It's an absolute good point to raise when talking about these topics, and when I posted my initial response I suspected that this may be a response I got (not that I think anybody would really be interested in my general rambling 😂).
So yes I do eat meat, not huge amounts, certainly less than I did when I was in my 20s, but enough to say that I am a carnivore. I have actively reduced my meat intake, but not at vegetarian levels, and have no plans to be. Also I am a huge animal lover (not in that way!), have cats, dogs various animals around the home.
The major difference in my mind is that a civilised society we are choosing to use animals for sport and using them in a way where a large percentage of them actually die through over working. I have no issues with animals being used by humans (sheepdogs, farm horses etc) so long as their health and wellbeing is considered important enough not to put them in a position that they could actually die. Now some farmers treat their animals horrifically, so it's not always industry specific, more people being w@nkers.
The whole concept of raising animals for food is very different in my mind. The world is changing and we will eventually I imagine move away from animals being the main protein source in the future, the planet will not be able to sustain it and so alternatives will be sort, whether that's plant based or insect based, or another new source, time will tell. Food production to feed people is very different to sport. Some times its a necessary evil. Lots of people in the world are very anti climate change but they are still forced to use cars (for example) as their lives require it.
Now it's great that these horses are treated fantastically serving their master, until they are no longer needed and shot. Another post highlighted the difficulties of treating a horse that had broken it's leg, a lot seems to come down to cost, maybe if the betting industry spent some of that cash they earn and invested it in rehabilitation of these horses then it would be a different conversation. |
"Another post highlighted the difficulties of treating a horse that had broken it's leg, a lot seems to come down to cost,"
It was repeatedly pointed out by at least two or three posters that it's physically impossible to "treat" an equine's broken leg, & that that's nothing whatsoever to do with cost.*
If you can't even be bothered to read or take in what's already been posted, there's no point in debating any further with you.
*Edit: And btw, some of those equines are incredibly valuable, worth millions - far more than the cost of any veterinary treatment. If they could be treated & healed, they would be. Might not race again, but immensely valuable at stud (some of the best stallions get £100K or more per mating; best brood mares also hugely valuable & are sought after). [Post edited 6 Apr 19:03]
| |
| |
| Just ban everything.... on 19:02 - Apr 6 with 649 views | BarcaBlue |
| Just ban everything.... on 18:42 - Apr 6 by Bloots |
....all sports, driving, fast food, cycling, booze, smoking, planes, farting, boats, pets, vaping, coffee, zoos, gambling, the internet, hats, television, moustaches, porn, bicuits......
Etc, etc.
Sorted.
End. |
It's about choice, and you know that already of course. | | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:12 - Apr 6 with 635 views | _clive_baker_ |
I'm not sure what's changed in me, but this is the first year watching the Grand National that it sat really uneasy with me. Perhaps it was the nasty looking fall, or maybe I'm going soft, I just didn't like it. I'm not really into horse racing tbh but have generally had a flutter on the national and did again yesterday, but I shan't be betting on it again. |  | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:12 - Apr 6 with 634 views | mutters |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:55 - Apr 6 by Ryorry |
"Another post highlighted the difficulties of treating a horse that had broken it's leg, a lot seems to come down to cost,"
It was repeatedly pointed out by at least two or three posters that it's physically impossible to "treat" an equine's broken leg, & that that's nothing whatsoever to do with cost.*
If you can't even be bothered to read or take in what's already been posted, there's no point in debating any further with you.
*Edit: And btw, some of those equines are incredibly valuable, worth millions - far more than the cost of any veterinary treatment. If they could be treated & healed, they would be. Might not race again, but immensely valuable at stud (some of the best stallions get £100K or more per mating; best brood mares also hugely valuable & are sought after). [Post edited 6 Apr 19:03]
|
That's good because I wasn't debating with you, it was J2. 😂
However I did take the courtesy of reading the other posters before I posted.
It isn't impossible to treat a horses broken leg, a number of horses get fractures and recover, it's dependent on how severe the breakage is. But yes lots of horses in the horse racing community are put down because the breakage during these races (especially jump racing) is so severe there isn't any choice. So tell me why put animals in these unnatural situations in the first place? Being forced to run at top speed, racing other horses, being whipped by a fleshy lump sat its back? Just for what? Human greed? So people can earn a few quid?
As for the cost/loss of income ... That's what they have insurance for, the horse owners are not losing our here and will have themselves covered.
(Edited for typos) [Post edited 6 Apr 19:19]
| |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:15 - Apr 6 with 608 views | _clive_baker_ |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:09 - Apr 6 by J2BLUE |
I know I will get stick for this but I do think it's relevant. Do you eat meat? I find it really odd that so many people who think nothing of eating meat on a daily basis have such a problem with horse racing. Of course people eating meat doesn't give other people the right to force bears to dance or dogs to fight etc but horses are generally loved by their owners and the stable workers who care for them. They get to run free, get good medical care and the best food.
If I was forced to come back as an animal used by humans, a race horse would be top of my list. The nightmare would be a factory farmed animal.
I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy from many people. If people want to argue that no animals should be used in any form by humans I can't argue with that. I just think there's a bit of jumping on the bandwagon to stick it to the gambling industry (TWTD's favourite hobby).
Also, if you were to suggest jumps racing be banned I also would not have much of an argument.
I hope people actually accept the point because too often on here people shout whataboutery and refuse to consider anything in context. It's very childish. My debate, my rules. It's pathetic.
Full disclosure: Horse racing is probably 50%ish of my job. Without it, my job would not exist. Feel free to use that against me if you feel it's relevant. |
50% of your job? That's what McDonalds are using in their burgers now is it. | | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:21 - Apr 6 with 599 views | BarcaBlue |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:45 - Apr 6 by Ryorry |
So answer J2's question - do you eat meat (or eggs or drink milk)?
If you do, you're a hypocrite, as assuming all those animals get the best welfare standards care (which isn't always the case), they too only get it till the last few minutes of their lives. |
Do you love horses? If you do you're a hypocrite. Do you care about climate change but drive a 4x4? If you do you're a hypocrite.
You can still have beliefs that things could be done better, that cruel sports could be banned without living the life of a sack clothed monk. | | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:32 - Apr 6 with 564 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:47 - Apr 6 by BarcaBlue |
You are deliberately missing the point. The justification for two cruel sports is exactly the same and that's what I'm comparing. One is arguably crueller than the other but I'm not comparing levels of cruelty here. |
No, you are deliberately missing the point.
One is designed to kill an animal
One has vets on standby, medical care, buckets of water waiting for the horses and has made efforts to make jumps racing safer.
I fully understand the point about the same arguments but they are not the same. If a horse was made to keep running and jumping until fell and then it was shot I wouldn't be defending it. | |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:32 - Apr 6 with 557 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:15 - Apr 6 by _clive_baker_ |
50% of your job? That's what McDonalds are using in their burgers now is it. |
Cheers Clive | |
| |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:38 - Apr 6 with 527 views | _clive_baker_ |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:32 - Apr 6 by J2BLUE |
Cheers Clive |
It was an open goal tbf, someone had to tap it in | | | |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 19:38 - Apr 6 with 529 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV slated for Grand National coverage on 18:41 - Apr 6 by mutters |
It's an absolute good point to raise when talking about these topics, and when I posted my initial response I suspected that this may be a response I got (not that I think anybody would really be interested in my general rambling 😂).
So yes I do eat meat, not huge amounts, certainly less than I did when I was in my 20s, but enough to say that I am a carnivore. I have actively reduced my meat intake, but not at vegetarian levels, and have no plans to be. Also I am a huge animal lover (not in that way!), have cats, dogs various animals around the home.
The major difference in my mind is that a civilised society we are choosing to use animals for sport and using them in a way where a large percentage of them actually die through over working. I have no issues with animals being used by humans (sheepdogs, farm horses etc) so long as their health and wellbeing is considered important enough not to put them in a position that they could actually die. Now some farmers treat their animals horrifically, so it's not always industry specific, more people being w@nkers.
The whole concept of raising animals for food is very different in my mind. The world is changing and we will eventually I imagine move away from animals being the main protein source in the future, the planet will not be able to sustain it and so alternatives will be sort, whether that's plant based or insect based, or another new source, time will tell. Food production to feed people is very different to sport. Some times its a necessary evil. Lots of people in the world are very anti climate change but they are still forced to use cars (for example) as their lives require it.
Now it's great that these horses are treated fantastically serving their master, until they are no longer needed and shot. Another post highlighted the difficulties of treating a horse that had broken it's leg, a lot seems to come down to cost, maybe if the betting industry spent some of that cash they earn and invested it in rehabilitation of these horses then it would be a different conversation. |
Thank you.
Most (not all) people who live in the UK have the choice of what to eat. Not many people really need to consume animal products. Replace that steak with some lentils. Replace that milk with some oat milk etc. I am not sure one is is ok when there is a strong argument against animal products when it comes to climate change, feeding the world and use of land/water.
I appreciate you accepting the point though and i'm not trying to deflect. I have no issue with horse racing being challenged but I think many people are hypocritical and it's a convenient cause for many to take a shot at the gambling industry. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
