| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. 22:32 - Apr 8 with 1251 views | Lord_Lucan |
I’m wondering if any bill in the history of the universe and outer space has been held up for so long by a load of toss pots who should be dead anyway. [Post edited 8 Apr 22:34]
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| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 23:19 - Apr 8 with 1158 views | cinnamonITFC |
It’s been delayed to allow people more time to consider the amendments in this incredibly complex and difficult piece of legislation that divided the country with some very real and legitimate concerns.
Personally I’m glad they’re taking their time. This is absolutely not the sort of thing that should be rushed. Many major potential issues are only receiving significant attention now the detail is being scrutinised.
Calling them toss-pots is a bit uncalled for. |  | | |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 08:42 - Apr 9 with 951 views | RIPbobby |
It is a difficult topic. There are clearly some cases where this is a no brainer and it should be allowed. But on the whole live and let live must surely be the answer. Don't wish to open a can of works, but I think this should be dealt with in a case by case basis only. Difficult. |  | | |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 08:51 - Apr 9 with 909 views | Swansea_Blue |
The Hillsborough Law requiring police to tell the truth? 36 years in the making. At least assisted dying is a complex and could involve potential harms.
Mind you, very few pieces of legislation get anywhere near the scrutiny assisted dying is getting. They should have been able to move on it by now. |  |
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| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 09:04 - Apr 9 with 880 views | Mullet |
I've had to teach about euthansia etc for years and it's always very hard to stay neutral because it's so emotive. I'm very much pro-assisted dying and people having dignity etc.
However, there are two threads that are very difficult to escape. The obvious one is religion, but the other is greed/family breakdown. I can see why no one wants to open those two pandora's boxes up.
There are people who unfortunately see parents as inconvenient the longer they live, and as draining their inheritance etc. Even one case of someone being cooerced into ending their life against their will is one too many.
I do think having so many religious voices in the Lords is a problem, as it muddies the free will aspect of this sort of thing. |  |
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| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 09:15 - Apr 9 with 857 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 09:04 - Apr 9 by Mullet |
I've had to teach about euthansia etc for years and it's always very hard to stay neutral because it's so emotive. I'm very much pro-assisted dying and people having dignity etc.
However, there are two threads that are very difficult to escape. The obvious one is religion, but the other is greed/family breakdown. I can see why no one wants to open those two pandora's boxes up.
There are people who unfortunately see parents as inconvenient the longer they live, and as draining their inheritance etc. Even one case of someone being cooerced into ending their life against their will is one too many.
I do think having so many religious voices in the Lords is a problem, as it muddies the free will aspect of this sort of thing. |
There is a third thread:
Canada has permissive right to die legislation, and there are emerging cases of pressure being applied from within the healthcare system.
And a fourth:
Any law has to be Shipman-proof.
And a fifth:
In some countries mental distress or extreme depression are sufficient criteria, in others only physical terminal illnesses qualify.
It is a hugely complex area to legislate around, and there are many questions that society (or at least it's legislature) needs to reach a consensus on, and any legislation must include safeguards that need to be foolproof. | | | |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 09:24 - Apr 9 with 811 views | bluelagos |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 09:15 - Apr 9 by ArnoldMoorhen |
There is a third thread:
Canada has permissive right to die legislation, and there are emerging cases of pressure being applied from within the healthcare system.
And a fourth:
Any law has to be Shipman-proof.
And a fifth:
In some countries mental distress or extreme depression are sufficient criteria, in others only physical terminal illnesses qualify.
It is a hugely complex area to legislate around, and there are many questions that society (or at least it's legislature) needs to reach a consensus on, and any legislation must include safeguards that need to be foolproof. |
I am very much pro choice - but also agree absolutely with your points.
The legislation needs to be right - and if that means it takes a little time, so be it.
I suspect the complications you highlight will contribute to delays and that one (or both) main parties will include it as a manifesto commitment at the next election. Much more likely to be adopted with govt support/funding etc. |  |
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| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 09:27 - Apr 9 with 798 views | Mullet |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 09:15 - Apr 9 by ArnoldMoorhen |
There is a third thread:
Canada has permissive right to die legislation, and there are emerging cases of pressure being applied from within the healthcare system.
And a fourth:
Any law has to be Shipman-proof.
And a fifth:
In some countries mental distress or extreme depression are sufficient criteria, in others only physical terminal illnesses qualify.
It is a hugely complex area to legislate around, and there are many questions that society (or at least it's legislature) needs to reach a consensus on, and any legislation must include safeguards that need to be foolproof. |
Yeah of course and Shipman-proof is an extension of coercion isn't it?
A colleague of mine commited suicide at 28 last year, she was very troubled/erratic at work. It was BPD awareness day recently and her sister made a video of her for social media. It was the first time any of us knew she had Bipolar.
I do think there's an argument she would/should have access to assisted dying, but I think it's hard to put that onus on someone else (family or medical professionals). I guess there is work to do on how we as a society view and treat mental health.
Do we make it available but only once all other avenues are exhausted? Are we willing to pay for that or do we go down the sci-fi dystopia of suicide pods? | |
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| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 10:20 - Apr 9 with 732 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 09:27 - Apr 9 by Mullet |
Yeah of course and Shipman-proof is an extension of coercion isn't it?
A colleague of mine commited suicide at 28 last year, she was very troubled/erratic at work. It was BPD awareness day recently and her sister made a video of her for social media. It was the first time any of us knew she had Bipolar.
I do think there's an argument she would/should have access to assisted dying, but I think it's hard to put that onus on someone else (family or medical professionals). I guess there is work to do on how we as a society view and treat mental health.
Do we make it available but only once all other avenues are exhausted? Are we willing to pay for that or do we go down the sci-fi dystopia of suicide pods? |
28 is no age, and she will have lived her entire adolescent and adult life in a post-Austerity world in which Mental Health services have been in disarray. I don't know how to respond beyond "Terribly sad", but this is an absolute reminder that Government policies have life-enhancing or life-destroying consequences for ordinary people.
It's not a question that I feel that I can definitively answer. But those writing the legislation have to do so, and make it utterly watertight for all possible foreseeable scenarios.
One of the big issues around the mental health side of this legislation is that mental health care has been shockingly underfunded for years, and many people (but not all) who could reach a point where they would wish to avail themselves of right to die legislation may not have done so had they had properly funded care and support.
Which then could lead to right to die being policy precisely because it is the cheaper solution to the problem...
Another problem is that plenty of decision-makers, from MPs to CEOs, are sociopaths, and the last people who should be making ethical decisions. | | | |
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| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 15:52 - Apr 9 with 610 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 10:20 - Apr 9 by ArnoldMoorhen |
28 is no age, and she will have lived her entire adolescent and adult life in a post-Austerity world in which Mental Health services have been in disarray. I don't know how to respond beyond "Terribly sad", but this is an absolute reminder that Government policies have life-enhancing or life-destroying consequences for ordinary people.
It's not a question that I feel that I can definitively answer. But those writing the legislation have to do so, and make it utterly watertight for all possible foreseeable scenarios.
One of the big issues around the mental health side of this legislation is that mental health care has been shockingly underfunded for years, and many people (but not all) who could reach a point where they would wish to avail themselves of right to die legislation may not have done so had they had properly funded care and support.
Which then could lead to right to die being policy precisely because it is the cheaper solution to the problem...
Another problem is that plenty of decision-makers, from MPs to CEOs, are sociopaths, and the last people who should be making ethical decisions. |
MP's are sociopaths ? Really ?
I believe that this should be a gradual process.
People with terminal illness and unreleavable great pain should be offered it first.
These should have at least 2 doctors approval and any other bells and whistles that people think necessary. I'm not sure a judge is needed. I dont trust lawyers.
Then if that system seems to work it can be expanded to those with an awful quality of life. If it does not then a rethink will be needed.
I have skin in this argument as I had to watch my poor Mum exist, just slowly wasting away with a zero quality of life. Every day she said to me "Just let me die". Every day ........ [Post edited 9 Apr 15:53]
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| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 16:13 - Apr 9 with 564 views | Ryorry |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 15:52 - Apr 9 by flykickingbybgunn |
MP's are sociopaths ? Really ?
I believe that this should be a gradual process.
People with terminal illness and unreleavable great pain should be offered it first.
These should have at least 2 doctors approval and any other bells and whistles that people think necessary. I'm not sure a judge is needed. I dont trust lawyers.
Then if that system seems to work it can be expanded to those with an awful quality of life. If it does not then a rethink will be needed.
I have skin in this argument as I had to watch my poor Mum exist, just slowly wasting away with a zero quality of life. Every day she said to me "Just let me die". Every day ........ [Post edited 9 Apr 15:53]
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A judge or panel, could be retirees, is 100% required.
Sadly, doctors can be bought, as they were by someone close to me who was elderly but neither terminally ill nor in great pain, just depressed at the death of their partner.
No amount of pleading made any difference, & with those 2 "doctors" sign-offs, the individual was able to take themselves off abroad for their wishes to succeed.
So sorry your Mum had to go through what she did. [Post edited 9 Apr 16:15]
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| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 16:30 - Apr 9 with 541 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| I see the assisted dying can has been kicked down the road again. on 16:13 - Apr 9 by Ryorry |
A judge or panel, could be retirees, is 100% required.
Sadly, doctors can be bought, as they were by someone close to me who was elderly but neither terminally ill nor in great pain, just depressed at the death of their partner.
No amount of pleading made any difference, & with those 2 "doctors" sign-offs, the individual was able to take themselves off abroad for their wishes to succeed.
So sorry your Mum had to go through what she did. [Post edited 9 Apr 16:15]
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Judges can be bought too. Most lawyers can. It's what they do.
I worked with many of them over a 40 odd year career and can attest to the old saying "A lawyer only ever has one client, themselves".
It is an emotive subject. We are clearly at opposite corners with the experiences.
Which just shows the complications of the legislation.
I'm sorry for your loss. | | | |
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