| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot 13:28 - Jun 6 with 1444 views | reusersfreekicks |
Had a reasonable bi-election result in Scotland
Dark times as we go Trumpian |  | | |  |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:13 - Jun 6 with 1165 views | Herbivore |
At this point they are still a protest vote for the most part. Need to be taken seriously but while they are benefitting from people's disillusionment, the fact they're all c***s means the in fighting and generally sh!tshowery of them as a political party is ramping up significantly. |  |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:23 - Jun 6 with 1144 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:13 - Jun 6 by Herbivore |
At this point they are still a protest vote for the most part. Need to be taken seriously but while they are benefitting from people's disillusionment, the fact they're all c***s means the in fighting and generally sh!tshowery of them as a political party is ramping up significantly. |
Labour won yesterday with 2% less of the vote than they got last time there.
It was other parties losing and gaining around them that made the difference.
69% Voted against them. Hardly a landslide.
A lot of work to do yet. |  | | |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:25 - Jun 6 with 1137 views | Herbivore |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:23 - Jun 6 by flykickingbybgunn |
Labour won yesterday with 2% less of the vote than they got last time there.
It was other parties losing and gaining around them that made the difference.
69% Voted against them. Hardly a landslide.
A lot of work to do yet. |
By election turnouts are always low. The fact that the incumbent Westminster party has won a Holyrood by election over the SNP s a bit of a surprise to be honest. Especially as Labour haven't exactly inspired the electorate. | |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:44 - Jun 6 with 1089 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
I guess we shouldn’t be surprised, the Scottish have form for voting for corrupt nationalists. |  | | |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:54 - Jun 6 with 1072 views | Radlett_blue |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:23 - Jun 6 by flykickingbybgunn |
Labour won yesterday with 2% less of the vote than they got last time there.
It was other parties losing and gaining around them that made the difference.
69% Voted against them. Hardly a landslide.
A lot of work to do yet. |
While by-election results can be very unreliable - always a tendency to vote against the government, low turnout - this was a huge result for Reform UK. I didn't expect them to be a factor in Scotland but this is a wake up call. The silver lining for Labour is that the SNP seems slightly more unpopular in Scotland than they are. |  |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:08 - Jun 6 with 1038 views | BlueBadger |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:25 - Jun 6 by Herbivore |
By election turnouts are always low. The fact that the incumbent Westminster party has won a Holyrood by election over the SNP s a bit of a surprise to be honest. Especially as Labour haven't exactly inspired the electorate. |
Let's be fair, the SNP are basically Reform dressed in Lib Demo clothes. |  |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:15 - Jun 6 with 1027 views | DJR |
To their credit, only 38% of Scots voted for Brexit, so I can't see Reform doing much better than it did yesterday on a low turn-out, especially with all the benefits of a high-profile by-election.
Sadly, I can't say the same for England and Wales, with 53.4% in England, and 52.5% in Wales, voting for Brexit. [Post edited 6 Jun 15:17]
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:20 - Jun 6 with 1016 views | BlueBadger |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:15 - Jun 6 by DJR |
To their credit, only 38% of Scots voted for Brexit, so I can't see Reform doing much better than it did yesterday on a low turn-out, especially with all the benefits of a high-profile by-election.
Sadly, I can't say the same for England and Wales, with 53.4% in England, and 52.5% in Wales, voting for Brexit. [Post edited 6 Jun 15:17]
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Although, an increasing number of the, are in favour of Scexit. Which is basically the political and economic equivalent of Norwich City to Brexit's ITFC. | |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:24 - Jun 6 with 1003 views | DJR |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:08 - Jun 6 by BlueBadger |
Let's be fair, the SNP are basically Reform dressed in Lib Demo clothes. |
The SNP is the only mainstream party to support rejoining the EU.
It also welcomes immigration.
It's policies are also to the left of Labour and the Lib Dems. | | | |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:30 - Jun 6 with 983 views | DJR |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:25 - Jun 6 by Herbivore |
By election turnouts are always low. The fact that the incumbent Westminster party has won a Holyrood by election over the SNP s a bit of a surprise to be honest. Especially as Labour haven't exactly inspired the electorate. |
In the General Election, Labour got 49.% of the vote in the roughly corresponding Hamilton and Hyde constituency. The SNP got 27.4%.
For Labour to win was therefore not as surprising as has been made out, although they only got about 2 percentage points more than the SNP.
John Curtice has said that the result indicates the SNP would win the the most seats at the 2025 Scottish Parliament election. [Post edited 6 Jun 15:46]
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:36 - Jun 6 with 955 views | NedPlimpton |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:30 - Jun 6 by DJR |
In the General Election, Labour got 49.% of the vote in the roughly corresponding Hamilton and Hyde constituency. The SNP got 27.4%.
For Labour to win was therefore not as surprising as has been made out, although they only got about 2 percentage points more than the SNP.
John Curtice has said that the result indicates the SNP would win the the most seats at the 2025 Scottish Parliament election. [Post edited 6 Jun 15:46]
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Majority of votes or majority of seats? |  | | |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:40 - Jun 6 with 945 views | DJR |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:20 - Jun 6 by BlueBadger |
Although, an increasing number of the, are in favour of Scexit. Which is basically the political and economic equivalent of Norwich City to Brexit's ITFC. |
Really?
https://fullfact.org/scotland/alister-jack-scotland-opinion-eu-membership/
I also came across this from earlier this year, based on a Best for Britain poll.
"More than two-thirds of people in Scotland support the UK Government negotiating a reciprocal youth mobility scheme with the European Union, with every single Scottish constituency backing the move, a major poll reveals." [Post edited 6 Jun 15:43]
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:42 - Jun 6 with 932 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 14:13 - Jun 6 by Herbivore |
At this point they are still a protest vote for the most part. Need to be taken seriously but while they are benefitting from people's disillusionment, the fact they're all c***s means the in fighting and generally sh!tshowery of them as a political party is ramping up significantly. |
Non-Scotland based posters may not see the full implications of this result:
This was a Holyrood By-election. When the next full Holyrood Election comes round over half the seats are determined by constituency voting, but a substantial minority are allocated on regional vote share, by a formula which over-all provides a better representation of the popular vote.
This makes it almost impossible for any single party to gain an overall majority on their own.
If Reform replicated this vote across Scotland then they would have a large chunk of seats, and could potentially be the Opposition, as it is unlikely they would be a Coalition partner (SNP, Labour, Greens and Lib Dems would be highly unlikely to partner with them. Conservatives *might* hold their nose and do it, but the Reform vote comes at the expense of the Conservative vote, usually, so it is unlikely that they could form a majority between them in the near future).
As the regionally allocated seats come from a party list system, there is also the opportunity for Farage to double his money and take one, and potentially become Leader of the Opposition. Douglas Ross did this as Leader of Scottish Conservatives.
It is a very significant result, as it opens up a path for growth for Reform, and especially so in neutering the effect of the resignation of their Chair and changing the news agenda. | | | |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:44 - Jun 6 with 914 views | DJR |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:36 - Jun 6 by NedPlimpton |
Majority of votes or majority of seats? |
Sorry seats. And I've corrected it to the most seats. [Post edited 6 Jun 15:47]
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:44 - Jun 6 with 913 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:36 - Jun 6 by NedPlimpton |
Majority of votes or majority of seats? |
It is incredibly difficult to win a majority of seats at Holyrood, especially as the number of parties grows. The system is stacked to deliberately make it hard to do. | | | |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:55 - Jun 6 with 867 views | DJR |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:42 - Jun 6 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Non-Scotland based posters may not see the full implications of this result:
This was a Holyrood By-election. When the next full Holyrood Election comes round over half the seats are determined by constituency voting, but a substantial minority are allocated on regional vote share, by a formula which over-all provides a better representation of the popular vote.
This makes it almost impossible for any single party to gain an overall majority on their own.
If Reform replicated this vote across Scotland then they would have a large chunk of seats, and could potentially be the Opposition, as it is unlikely they would be a Coalition partner (SNP, Labour, Greens and Lib Dems would be highly unlikely to partner with them. Conservatives *might* hold their nose and do it, but the Reform vote comes at the expense of the Conservative vote, usually, so it is unlikely that they could form a majority between them in the near future).
As the regionally allocated seats come from a party list system, there is also the opportunity for Farage to double his money and take one, and potentially become Leader of the Opposition. Douglas Ross did this as Leader of Scottish Conservatives.
It is a very significant result, as it opens up a path for growth for Reform, and especially so in neutering the effect of the resignation of their Chair and changing the news agenda. |
Very good points.
EDIT: In a sane world, such a system would be put in place for the UK Parliament, if a new constitution were being written. [Post edited 6 Jun 16:37]
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 18:15 - Jun 6 with 700 views | flykickingbybgunn |
It seems to me that what we can take from this is that it was a protest vote.
SNP and Labour both lost votes.
That the SNP lost more gave it to Labour.
A wake up call to both.
They will ignore it at their peril.
The voters want action.
At the moment all they are getting is doctrine. [Post edited 6 Jun 18:17]
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 18:36 - Jun 6 with 662 views | BlueBadger |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:40 - Jun 6 by DJR |
Really?
https://fullfact.org/scotland/alister-jack-scotland-opinion-eu-membership/
I also came across this from earlier this year, based on a Best for Britain poll.
"More than two-thirds of people in Scotland support the UK Government negotiating a reciprocal youth mobility scheme with the European Union, with every single Scottish constituency backing the move, a major poll reveals." [Post edited 6 Jun 15:43]
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Scexit would see them opting out go this as they would neither be in the EU OR the UK at that point. | |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 18:40 - Jun 6 with 658 views | BlueBadger |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:24 - Jun 6 by DJR |
The SNP is the only mainstream party to support rejoining the EU.
It also welcomes immigration.
It's policies are also to the left of Labour and the Lib Dems. |
The Lib Dems have been in favour of rejoining since 2016 tho.
I still say my analogy stands, the SNP stand on a platform of vaguely leftish holly posturing and Brexit on a tinpot Norwich City scale. | |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 19:31 - Jun 6 with 618 views | Churchman |
That bunch of mugs won’t get anywhere near. People are voting out of frustration.sort of ‘none of the above’ |  | | |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 20:59 - Jun 6 with 537 views | DJR |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 18:40 - Jun 6 by BlueBadger |
The Lib Dems have been in favour of rejoining since 2016 tho.
I still say my analogy stands, the SNP stand on a platform of vaguely leftish holly posturing and Brexit on a tinpot Norwich City scale. |
You think taking action on child poverty is vaguely leftish holly posturing?
https://www.jrf.org.uk/news/growth-alone-wont-cut-child-poverty-as-gap-between-u
Growth alone won’t cut child poverty, as gap between UK countries set to widen
As the Joseph Rowntree Foundation (JRF) publishes its annual UK Poverty report, new analysis shows that under central OBR projections, only Scotland will see child poverty rates fall by 2029, demonstrating the power of social security policy in tackling poverty.
In the central scenario, without further policy changes, by 2029:
The gap between child poverty rates in Scotland compared to England and Wales will have grown, with Scotland moving from being 7ppts to 10ppts below the rest of the UK
Almost 1 in 3 children would still be in poverty in England, but in Scotland there would be closer to 1 in 5 children in poverty in large part due to Scotland-specific policies.
Child poverty in Scotland would be just 70% of the level in England
If the rest of the UK were to see the same reduction in the share of children in poverty achieved in Scotland, 800,000 fewer children would be in poverty. [Post edited 6 Jun 21:17]
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 21:11 - Jun 6 with 523 views | Swansea_Blue |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 15:20 - Jun 6 by BlueBadger |
Although, an increasing number of the, are in favour of Scexit. Which is basically the political and economic equivalent of Norwich City to Brexit's ITFC. |
But with a polar opposite rationale, so not in any way comparable. The Scottish Independence movement comes from a genuine place of being ruled over by another nation, not an invented one.
The Scots tend to have higher educational attainment rates for the majority (as opposed to England which has a higher percentage of high performers but a longer tail of poor attainment; versus Wales which is bottom of the lot), so it's no surprise they weren't fooled as much by the Brexit snake oil salesmen. As a generalisation of course. |  |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 21:34 - Jun 6 with 502 views | DJR |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 21:11 - Jun 6 by Swansea_Blue |
But with a polar opposite rationale, so not in any way comparable. The Scottish Independence movement comes from a genuine place of being ruled over by another nation, not an invented one.
The Scots tend to have higher educational attainment rates for the majority (as opposed to England which has a higher percentage of high performers but a longer tail of poor attainment; versus Wales which is bottom of the lot), so it's no surprise they weren't fooled as much by the Brexit snake oil salesmen. As a generalisation of course. |
Scotland obviously has its issues when it comes to sectarianism but I don't sense the Little Englander mentality or hostility to immigrants is as strong as it is in England.
It seems to me that one explanation for this that the Scots have on a large scale been immigrants themselves to other countries. Indeed, roughly half of my twenty odd cousins live outside the UK, and my parents themselves also emigrated to Canada, only to return later because they didn't settle in.
Another factor is that Scotland needs people because its birth rate is (I think) the lowest in the UK. [Post edited 6 Jun 21:38]
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 21:49 - Jun 6 with 472 views | Swansea_Blue |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 21:34 - Jun 6 by DJR |
Scotland obviously has its issues when it comes to sectarianism but I don't sense the Little Englander mentality or hostility to immigrants is as strong as it is in England.
It seems to me that one explanation for this that the Scots have on a large scale been immigrants themselves to other countries. Indeed, roughly half of my twenty odd cousins live outside the UK, and my parents themselves also emigrated to Canada, only to return later because they didn't settle in.
Another factor is that Scotland needs people because its birth rate is (I think) the lowest in the UK. [Post edited 6 Jun 21:38]
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That wider world view is bound to help. What’s the media position like up there? Do rags like the Mail and Express have as much sway or are the Scottish versions more tame? I’m convinced they helped to set the tone over the last 2-3 decades for the rise in isolationist and xenophobic views. That’s the other difference around Scottish Independence movement that’s obvious- they seem to want greater international ties and involvement, not less like the Little Englanders. | |
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| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 22:09 - Jun 6 with 424 views | DJR |
| See the far right single personality populist sh1t stirring lot on 21:49 - Jun 6 by Swansea_Blue |
That wider world view is bound to help. What’s the media position like up there? Do rags like the Mail and Express have as much sway or are the Scottish versions more tame? I’m convinced they helped to set the tone over the last 2-3 decades for the rise in isolationist and xenophobic views. That’s the other difference around Scottish Independence movement that’s obvious- they seem to want greater international ties and involvement, not less like the Little Englanders. |
I think they are tamer versions, although (so far as I am aware) virtually all opposed independence.
I think the greater tameness does reflect that I don't think the Scots as a whole would stomach a lot of which the English press gets up to. And it was interesting that there was a backlash in several of the papers against Farage earlier in the week when he didn't turn up to where the press was expecting him. They ended up calling him "No-show Nigel", and one couldn't imagine a similar backlash in the right wing press in England. [Post edited 7 Jun 9:51]
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