| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets 12:29 - Jun 28 with 5973 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Doesn’t seem like they are going to be taking our approach from last summer. Let’s see if it works out any better for them. I hope we aren’t going to be doing the “Predominantly English” thing from a level down again if we get the chance this time next year, heard Ashton repeat that phrase on the Talksport segment.
If you can’t get Premier League experience, the European top leagues seems the best logical next step, or at least a blend of two. Sorry to beat an old drum but I did see the first couple of transfer interesting. |  | | |  |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 18:57 - Jun 28 with 903 views | Churchman |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 14:29 - Jun 28 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I think its criminal how under invested and under developed out scouting network is, especially abroad.
Last year's recruitment was so basic. |
How could it be anything else given the rapid rate the club progressed? I don’t see how you can build a domestic scouting network overnight, let alone a foreign one.
As for foreign players they don’t always succeed. There is risk in any player signing but more if the come from abroad. It’s just that it doesn’t matter for big clubs with money to burn. Do Man Utd care that they may have to replace Onana who they don’t rate much? Of course not because he only cost £50m plus. Nothing to them.
The money mattered to us though. Much of Sunderland’s signing (half again what we paid for anybody) is from the Bellingham sale. It’s no real risk to them. They had an asset to sell and reinvested. It may work and for my mates’ sake I hope it does. They and Leeds belong there. We had nothing to sell so the aim was to buy in talent that’d hopefully appreciate in value. A gamble, but I can understand the logic.
I understand the romance and assumption that any foreign player is an upgrade on home players and better value. I also understand the comfort of hasbeens and excitement of bad boys. I just don’t agree with either.
I don’t think the underlying approach this time last year was too far wrong. |  | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:08 - Jun 28 with 855 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 18:57 - Jun 28 by Churchman |
How could it be anything else given the rapid rate the club progressed? I don’t see how you can build a domestic scouting network overnight, let alone a foreign one.
As for foreign players they don’t always succeed. There is risk in any player signing but more if the come from abroad. It’s just that it doesn’t matter for big clubs with money to burn. Do Man Utd care that they may have to replace Onana who they don’t rate much? Of course not because he only cost £50m plus. Nothing to them.
The money mattered to us though. Much of Sunderland’s signing (half again what we paid for anybody) is from the Bellingham sale. It’s no real risk to them. They had an asset to sell and reinvested. It may work and for my mates’ sake I hope it does. They and Leeds belong there. We had nothing to sell so the aim was to buy in talent that’d hopefully appreciate in value. A gamble, but I can understand the logic.
I understand the romance and assumption that any foreign player is an upgrade on home players and better value. I also understand the comfort of hasbeens and excitement of bad boys. I just don’t agree with either.
I don’t think the underlying approach this time last year was too far wrong. |
We spent the best part of 140M. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:10 - Jun 28 with 843 views | ITFCSG |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 18:49 - Jun 28 by Nutkins_Return |
Sunderland certainly moved to that market as their strategy years ago. Their owner is also a shareholder in Marseille whom his father owned I think. I think their team already had good access in the French leagues and they Have continued to sign from there.
It's important to say there is more than one way to be successful in the market and copying others rather than your strengths is not the right play. We are building our recruitment function and databases to be able to recruit in that market but just doing it before this is matured wouldn't have been right for us. |
Our ownership is American, also Berke Bakay have connections in Turkey and more specifically Galatasaray as well, so where are the USMNT, MLS, Süper Lig and Galatasaray connections?
Zilch. |  | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:15 - Jun 28 with 820 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:08 - Jun 28 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
We spent the best part of 140M. |
Just for correctness, it was much closer to 120M, but of more relevance, what has spending that amount of money got to do with how far our recruitment infrastructure was behind what is needed in the PL, and the time needed to now develop said infrastructure?
It will take years to get to where we need to be, but I’m sure we’re progressing. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:36 - Jun 28 with 767 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:15 - Jun 28 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Just for correctness, it was much closer to 120M, but of more relevance, what has spending that amount of money got to do with how far our recruitment infrastructure was behind what is needed in the PL, and the time needed to now develop said infrastructure?
It will take years to get to where we need to be, but I’m sure we’re progressing. |
No, we spent almost to the £, or committed to spend,140m. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:45 - Jun 28 with 760 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:15 - Jun 28 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Just for correctness, it was much closer to 120M, but of more relevance, what has spending that amount of money got to do with how far our recruitment infrastructure was behind what is needed in the PL, and the time needed to now develop said infrastructure?
It will take years to get to where we need to be, but I’m sure we’re progressing. |
It was in response to the Churchman saying Sunderland are doing it because they could afford to after selling Bellingham. Which is nonsense, we were aggressively backed and could have easily afforded that outlay as our spending proved. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:58 - Jun 28 with 723 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 16:45 - Jun 28 by positivity |
yes, we've signed plenty of overseas duds since then! |
And domestic duds. Do they count? |  |
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| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 20:02 - Jun 28 with 712 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:36 - Jun 28 by PrideOfTheEast |
No, we spent almost to the £, or committed to spend,140m. |
I’d actually forgotten it was now closer to 130M (which is what I remember posting previously on this -doh on my part)
You can check the transfers on transfermarket. €152M or £129M ish | | | |
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| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 21:05 - Jun 28 with 645 views | Churchman |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:08 - Jun 28 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
We spent the best part of 140M. |
And Sunderland have spent about double what we spent on Delap on one player. Will he be doubly effective? Maybe. Might be the signing of the decade. We will see.
£140m? An extraordinary amount for us. Bench warmers and prospects for just about everyone else. Newcastle’s two brilliant midfielders cost well over £100m a few years ago. It’d have been double that had they tried to buy them this year or last.
£140m (why don’t you round it up to £150m to make it sound more?). Isn’t much to build a team from scratch. Hence the loan punts, which for me mostly failed, and wages for injury prone people like Tuanzebe. I don’t like it, but we weren’t competitive at any level.
It’s no good people doing green eyed tiny Tim because we were a country mile from being competitive with the smallest budget in the PL. Even the two teams relegated with us having been in the PL ten years plus before us bar one season.
I get the bitterness and bemusement towards the decisions made and the people that made them. And dismissive hatred shown towards the players signed. Boooo. But people flatly refuse to recognise where we were, where we are and what we are up against. Were errors made? Of course. Too many. But it wouldn’t have made one iota of difference bar one league position.
There is that easy assumption that Carlos Kickaball, Adrian Paz or Glasslegs Le Pen is the answer. Just raid everywhere for cheapies from here to the South Pole and all will be well. All better than the rubbish in this country and cheap too. It might be, if you have the worldwide network even Brentford have and we don’t. Why? Because just a few years ago support was Lee O’Neill who off camera shoved a broom up trap one and cleaned the floor - sometimes.
Before we slaughter ITFC owners and management, let’s see how we start, what the club is doing about its infrastructure and how Leeds and Sunderland do.. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 22:01 - Jun 28 with 597 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 21:05 - Jun 28 by Churchman |
And Sunderland have spent about double what we spent on Delap on one player. Will he be doubly effective? Maybe. Might be the signing of the decade. We will see.
£140m? An extraordinary amount for us. Bench warmers and prospects for just about everyone else. Newcastle’s two brilliant midfielders cost well over £100m a few years ago. It’d have been double that had they tried to buy them this year or last.
£140m (why don’t you round it up to £150m to make it sound more?). Isn’t much to build a team from scratch. Hence the loan punts, which for me mostly failed, and wages for injury prone people like Tuanzebe. I don’t like it, but we weren’t competitive at any level.
It’s no good people doing green eyed tiny Tim because we were a country mile from being competitive with the smallest budget in the PL. Even the two teams relegated with us having been in the PL ten years plus before us bar one season.
I get the bitterness and bemusement towards the decisions made and the people that made them. And dismissive hatred shown towards the players signed. Boooo. But people flatly refuse to recognise where we were, where we are and what we are up against. Were errors made? Of course. Too many. But it wouldn’t have made one iota of difference bar one league position.
There is that easy assumption that Carlos Kickaball, Adrian Paz or Glasslegs Le Pen is the answer. Just raid everywhere for cheapies from here to the South Pole and all will be well. All better than the rubbish in this country and cheap too. It might be, if you have the worldwide network even Brentford have and we don’t. Why? Because just a few years ago support was Lee O’Neill who off camera shoved a broom up trap one and cleaned the floor - sometimes.
Before we slaughter ITFC owners and management, let’s see how we start, what the club is doing about its infrastructure and how Leeds and Sunderland do.. |
Dismissive hatred? Quite the leap. As I’ve said I don’t think outside a couple of misses we’ve signed bad players and I think they’ll serve us very well next year. I wish people would read before throwing statements like that around.
I’m also not talking about everyone else, that’s the point, it’s literally what the entire thread is about, the promoted clubs. Why are you getting so upset about an opinion and talking things that are completely irrelevant from years ago? I’m not slaughtering anyone, let alone the guys that’s have taken the club on an incredibly trajectory. I’m concerned staying in the UK market was by design as said multiple times. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 23:16 - Jun 28 with 523 views | positivity |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 19:58 - Jun 28 by Marshalls_Mullet |
And domestic duds. Do they count? |
our hit rate seems better with domestic players, we've sold maybe two players from abroad for a profit since treacle in 1997ish
el mizouni (400k after many years)
tete yengi undisclosed figure (possibly up to 4 figures!)
build the network properly before wasting the cash on half-baked hunches! | |
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| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 23:43 - Jun 28 with 483 views | Churchman |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 22:01 - Jun 28 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Dismissive hatred? Quite the leap. As I’ve said I don’t think outside a couple of misses we’ve signed bad players and I think they’ll serve us very well next year. I wish people would read before throwing statements like that around.
I’m also not talking about everyone else, that’s the point, it’s literally what the entire thread is about, the promoted clubs. Why are you getting so upset about an opinion and talking things that are completely irrelevant from years ago? I’m not slaughtering anyone, let alone the guys that’s have taken the club on an incredibly trajectory. I’m concerned staying in the UK market was by design as said multiple times. |
Poor language on my part. In. My mind I wasn’t aiming that at you, Joey. It’s just that there were some slaughtering players before they’d even started here, which I thought unfair. Not new. A particular poster not on the Board at the moment slaughtered Burgess before a ball was kicked two years ago.
And I’m not upset. I am just a supporter with plenty going on in my life, but do care about the club and want it to progress/grow of course.
I think focussing on the U.K. market was by design, but also by necessity. Limited funds and no infrastructure made that the right option. The hope is that the club builds that infrastructure properly over time along with a youth policy. A
A reason Sunderland stand a better chance than us is that they bring good players through. We, at the moment, do not and don’t even have a decent training ground.
That’s where I think we are. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 01:09 - Jun 29 with 413 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 23:43 - Jun 28 by Churchman |
Poor language on my part. In. My mind I wasn’t aiming that at you, Joey. It’s just that there were some slaughtering players before they’d even started here, which I thought unfair. Not new. A particular poster not on the Board at the moment slaughtered Burgess before a ball was kicked two years ago.
And I’m not upset. I am just a supporter with plenty going on in my life, but do care about the club and want it to progress/grow of course.
I think focussing on the U.K. market was by design, but also by necessity. Limited funds and no infrastructure made that the right option. The hope is that the club builds that infrastructure properly over time along with a youth policy. A
A reason Sunderland stand a better chance than us is that they bring good players through. We, at the moment, do not and don’t even have a decent training ground.
That’s where I think we are. |
Fair enough, I do agree there is element who are quick to write off players, which is rather ridiculous.
For the record I think a good few of the signings have a high ceiling with potential to develop into decent top flight players. I’m higher on Greaves than most for example. I was just questioning the overall strategy in a few aspects. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 01:11 - Jun 29 with 412 views | bournemouthblue |
Leeds presumably have Red Bull's data? |  |
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| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 08:56 - Jun 29 with 307 views | Churchman |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 01:09 - Jun 29 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Fair enough, I do agree there is element who are quick to write off players, which is rather ridiculous.
For the record I think a good few of the signings have a high ceiling with potential to develop into decent top flight players. I’m higher on Greaves than most for example. I was just questioning the overall strategy in a few aspects. |
I too think Greaves is better than some believe. In a settled, more balanced side I think he will prove that.
Same for a number of our players, including Clarke and Philogene. I think a lot depends on what we do about that midfield. For me it’s the key to this coming season, just as it was a major factor in last season’s collapse.
Strategy wise, it’s more a case of being caught out by rapid progression up the leagues (over reach?). I don’t see much good out of last season looking back, bar one key thing. It shone a light in our shortcomings in every area.
From minor stuff like how Premier clubs work over refs with the dark arts to club infrastructure, yoof, training, recruitment, scouting here and abroad and the sheer levels the established teams play at.
We know what the Premier League looks like now (the change in 20+ years surprised me). I just hope those at the club and most particularly those who own it are up for the challenge. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 09:01 - Jun 29 with 299 views | ITFCSG |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 21:05 - Jun 28 by Churchman |
And Sunderland have spent about double what we spent on Delap on one player. Will he be doubly effective? Maybe. Might be the signing of the decade. We will see.
£140m? An extraordinary amount for us. Bench warmers and prospects for just about everyone else. Newcastle’s two brilliant midfielders cost well over £100m a few years ago. It’d have been double that had they tried to buy them this year or last.
£140m (why don’t you round it up to £150m to make it sound more?). Isn’t much to build a team from scratch. Hence the loan punts, which for me mostly failed, and wages for injury prone people like Tuanzebe. I don’t like it, but we weren’t competitive at any level.
It’s no good people doing green eyed tiny Tim because we were a country mile from being competitive with the smallest budget in the PL. Even the two teams relegated with us having been in the PL ten years plus before us bar one season.
I get the bitterness and bemusement towards the decisions made and the people that made them. And dismissive hatred shown towards the players signed. Boooo. But people flatly refuse to recognise where we were, where we are and what we are up against. Were errors made? Of course. Too many. But it wouldn’t have made one iota of difference bar one league position.
There is that easy assumption that Carlos Kickaball, Adrian Paz or Glasslegs Le Pen is the answer. Just raid everywhere for cheapies from here to the South Pole and all will be well. All better than the rubbish in this country and cheap too. It might be, if you have the worldwide network even Brentford have and we don’t. Why? Because just a few years ago support was Lee O’Neill who off camera shoved a broom up trap one and cleaned the floor - sometimes.
Before we slaughter ITFC owners and management, let’s see how we start, what the club is doing about its infrastructure and how Leeds and Sunderland do.. |
//And Sunderland have spent about double what we spent on Delap on one player//
Cherry-picking. Why not see if their new player is doubly more effective than J Clarke or Philogene then?
Are Sunderland light years ahead of us in terms of scouting and overseas recruitment? | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 10:15 - Jun 29 with 229 views | Churchman |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 09:01 - Jun 29 by ITFCSG |
//And Sunderland have spent about double what we spent on Delap on one player//
Cherry-picking. Why not see if their new player is doubly more effective than J Clarke or Philogene then?
Are Sunderland light years ahead of us in terms of scouting and overseas recruitment? |
You’ve missed the point, but never mind. Their new forward cost £30m plus potentially £5m add ons. What did Delap cost? They are both forwards from what I understand so to me that’s a fair comparison. Anyway, who is to say Clarke and everyone’s favourite hate figure at the moment Philogene won’t prove better value than Diarra? Nobody knows.
Who would have guessed that Chelsea’s Nkunku at over £50m would look like a pub player? You just cannot tell. Well I can’t anyway, beyond seeing the obvious that Chelsea were trying to mug us off with one legged Broja that many on here thought was a good risk.
The Sunderland player has been largely paid for from the Bellingham sale. So no impact on the PL money then. Who did we sell to fund? Nobody, because we had zilch to sell that’d have raised more than what they were worth to us.
In the last 25 years Sunderland have spent 15 in the Premier League. They have a stadium that is a lot newer and will need less work to stage a PL game. They have a huge support base compared to us and while tv money dwarfs that, it does no harm. They have a yoof system that is clearly producing or refining very good players. They’ve had three years in the Championship, two of them in the play offs and for a period a manager in Mowbray who was a good builder of things in the old GB style.
The current manager clearly knows the foreign, particularly French, market too. Two of their best players last season were from there and Mayenda in particular might do well in the PL. How can they not be light years ahead of us in terms of things like scouting networks? We didn’t have one here or anywhere else. Saviour Evans saw to that
Rome wasn’t built in a day. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 12:07 - Jun 29 with 162 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 10:15 - Jun 29 by Churchman |
You’ve missed the point, but never mind. Their new forward cost £30m plus potentially £5m add ons. What did Delap cost? They are both forwards from what I understand so to me that’s a fair comparison. Anyway, who is to say Clarke and everyone’s favourite hate figure at the moment Philogene won’t prove better value than Diarra? Nobody knows.
Who would have guessed that Chelsea’s Nkunku at over £50m would look like a pub player? You just cannot tell. Well I can’t anyway, beyond seeing the obvious that Chelsea were trying to mug us off with one legged Broja that many on here thought was a good risk.
The Sunderland player has been largely paid for from the Bellingham sale. So no impact on the PL money then. Who did we sell to fund? Nobody, because we had zilch to sell that’d have raised more than what they were worth to us.
In the last 25 years Sunderland have spent 15 in the Premier League. They have a stadium that is a lot newer and will need less work to stage a PL game. They have a huge support base compared to us and while tv money dwarfs that, it does no harm. They have a yoof system that is clearly producing or refining very good players. They’ve had three years in the Championship, two of them in the play offs and for a period a manager in Mowbray who was a good builder of things in the old GB style.
The current manager clearly knows the foreign, particularly French, market too. Two of their best players last season were from there and Mayenda in particular might do well in the PL. How can they not be light years ahead of us in terms of things like scouting networks? We didn’t have one here or anywhere else. Saviour Evans saw to that
Rome wasn’t built in a day. |
Easy to forget that Sunderland have been in the top flight more often than not in the time we’ve been away from it.
Let’s hope we are addressing the infrastructure at pace because not a chance we stay up without approaching things very differently next time re recruitment. Hands were tied to a very large extent last summer I suppose and the more Ashton talks, the more obvious it is that our signings were made with this season in mind. | | | |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 13:57 - Jun 29 with 82 views | Churchman |
| Leeds and Sunderland straight into the European markets on 12:07 - Jun 29 by PrideOfTheEast |
Easy to forget that Sunderland have been in the top flight more often than not in the time we’ve been away from it.
Let’s hope we are addressing the infrastructure at pace because not a chance we stay up without approaching things very differently next time re recruitment. Hands were tied to a very large extent last summer I suppose and the more Ashton talks, the more obvious it is that our signings were made with this season in mind. |
Agree. Ramping up the infrastructure is absolutely key. All aspects of it. We are no longer blind to the requirements. Without working on the above at pace as priority, even if we make it next year, we will just repeat last season’s disappointment (understatement). Nobody wants that bar one or two trolls on here. | | | |
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