| Thank God for immigrants on 15:49 - Jul 3 with 483 views | jayessess |
| Thank God for immigrants on 13:45 - Jul 3 by DJR |
Seasonal agricultural workers may also contribute little, if they are here for 6 months but qualify for then entire personal allowance. But their impact on the agricultural economy is immense because without them large sectors wouldn't function, we'd have rotting crops and we'd have to import more. [Post edited 3 Jul 13:46]
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The thing that's discounted in the whole "low wage = low value" thing is that the economic contribution of a worker is not their wage, it's the value of the labour they do, of which their wages are only a portion. |  |
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| Thank God for immigrants on 16:47 - Jul 3 with 441 views | eireblue |
| Thank God for immigrants on 14:52 - Jul 3 by lowhouseblue |
you're not explaining why uk tax payers would choose to admit people who the obr estimates will be a net cost of up to £1.5m over their life time. high skilled workers definitely. workers in the nhs definitely. genuine refugees definitely. but ...
out of interest who is going to pay for the higher wages in the care sector? it's an easy and attractive thing to demand but it comes at a cost - even confiscating the salary of 'care home bosses' won't go very far. |
I would have thought that obvious. Maybe because of your specific framing you are not seeing the maths.
Let’s say we need 10,000 workers.
You have been explaining, and the graph shows this. A low paid migrate costs the U.K. tax payer £5 say, a low paid U.K. born worker costs more £5.50. That extra 0.5 cost to the tax payer, is the additional stuff the U.K. tax payer pays before a person is an adult, it isn’t extra pay.
So we have the very obvious.
5.5 > 5.0
10,000 x 5.5 > 10,000 x 5
Where does that extra 10,000 x 0.5 come from?
The simple, get rid of migrants, costs more not less.
I wouldn’t object to care homes being run as not for profit social enterprises, and being taxed more to look after old, sick and elderly people. Tax Wealth, tax inherited wealth. Create a society where more people have better wages so money circulates in the economy, and less money/wealth stagnates at the top, and fewer people have just enough to subsist.
And I wouldn’t object if people stopped pandering to racists like Farage, and started educating people on population growth and economics, and stopped defining a humans worth by their birth place. |  | | |
| Thank God for immigrants on 22:21 - Jul 3 with 345 views | jayessess |
| Thank God for immigrants on 16:47 - Jul 3 by eireblue |
I would have thought that obvious. Maybe because of your specific framing you are not seeing the maths.
Let’s say we need 10,000 workers.
You have been explaining, and the graph shows this. A low paid migrate costs the U.K. tax payer £5 say, a low paid U.K. born worker costs more £5.50. That extra 0.5 cost to the tax payer, is the additional stuff the U.K. tax payer pays before a person is an adult, it isn’t extra pay.
So we have the very obvious.
5.5 > 5.0
10,000 x 5.5 > 10,000 x 5
Where does that extra 10,000 x 0.5 come from?
The simple, get rid of migrants, costs more not less.
I wouldn’t object to care homes being run as not for profit social enterprises, and being taxed more to look after old, sick and elderly people. Tax Wealth, tax inherited wealth. Create a society where more people have better wages so money circulates in the economy, and less money/wealth stagnates at the top, and fewer people have just enough to subsist.
And I wouldn’t object if people stopped pandering to racists like Farage, and started educating people on population growth and economics, and stopped defining a humans worth by their birth place. |
Saw today that Meloni's far right Italian government announced a massive increase in non-EU work visas, to cope with workforce shortages resulting from a low birth rate.
Think it's striking that even a government elected specifically on an anti-immigration platform ends up in the same place as most other European governments, basically because access to adequate labour supplies is imperative for capitalist societies.
Yet politicians barely dare say this stuff out loud and pretty much every party stands on an entirely unrealistic "we'll bring down immigration" agenda. [Post edited 3 Jul 22:25]
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| Thank God for immigrants on 01:29 - Jul 4 with 285 views | Ryorry |
| Thank God for immigrants on 22:21 - Jul 3 by jayessess |
Saw today that Meloni's far right Italian government announced a massive increase in non-EU work visas, to cope with workforce shortages resulting from a low birth rate.
Think it's striking that even a government elected specifically on an anti-immigration platform ends up in the same place as most other European governments, basically because access to adequate labour supplies is imperative for capitalist societies.
Yet politicians barely dare say this stuff out loud and pretty much every party stands on an entirely unrealistic "we'll bring down immigration" agenda. [Post edited 3 Jul 22:25]
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If the "unpopular opinions" thread had allowed non-football posts, I'd have said "legalise more immigration" and "raise income tax by at least 1p if not 2p to pay for restructuring & betterment of the NHS & care systems". [Post edited 4 Jul 1:30]
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| Thank God for immigrants on 07:28 - Jul 4 with 231 views | WeWereZombies |
| Thank God for immigrants on 01:29 - Jul 4 by Ryorry |
If the "unpopular opinions" thread had allowed non-football posts, I'd have said "legalise more immigration" and "raise income tax by at least 1p if not 2p to pay for restructuring & betterment of the NHS & care systems". [Post edited 4 Jul 1:30]
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It's said that politics is the art of the possible so I think you have to temper that desire for an unpopular opinion to gain any traction with the consideration of what can be pushed through at the right time to make any appreciable difference and without causing social disorder. But I do have some sympathy with the idea when this morning the first thing I see on the BBC website is Keir Starmer playing Mick McCarthy to Donald Trump's Marcus Evans - are football analogies allowed on this political thread ? |  |
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| Thank God for immigrants on 07:48 - Jul 4 with 219 views | DJR |
| Thank God for immigrants on 15:49 - Jul 3 by jayessess |
The thing that's discounted in the whole "low wage = low value" thing is that the economic contribution of a worker is not their wage, it's the value of the labour they do, of which their wages are only a portion. |
There are also advantages to immigration which are not economic. Without it, for example, many restaurant might struggle to survive making the country a poorer place to live in, and many more people might be awaiting things like hip operations. [Post edited 4 Jul 7:51]
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| Thank God for immigrants on 14:41 - Jul 4 with 149 views | jayessess |
| Thank God for immigrants on 01:29 - Jul 4 by Ryorry |
If the "unpopular opinions" thread had allowed non-football posts, I'd have said "legalise more immigration" and "raise income tax by at least 1p if not 2p to pay for restructuring & betterment of the NHS & care systems". [Post edited 4 Jul 1:30]
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I do wonder if a politician honestly explaining what the current level of immigration was for and what the reality of the global refugee situation is would be any more unpopular than the current parade of governments that tells everyone they're going to "sort out immigration" and "control our borders" but then finds themselves powerless to affect it. | |
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| Thank God for immigrants on 16:03 - Jul 4 with 120 views | Ryorry |
| Thank God for immigrants on 14:41 - Jul 4 by jayessess |
I do wonder if a politician honestly explaining what the current level of immigration was for and what the reality of the global refugee situation is would be any more unpopular than the current parade of governments that tells everyone they're going to "sort out immigration" and "control our borders" but then finds themselves powerless to affect it. |
Agree, I think honesty, bravery and long term thinking might actually go down better with the general public than some politicians realise, especially given the overall affection for the NHS and that most can see it’s clearly in need of an overhaul and logically integrating with the care system.
“Bravery” and “logic” seem to be key things missing from this sadly disappointing government though. | |
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