| Thank God for immigrants on 13:02 - Jul 2 with 305 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Thank God for immigrants on 12:35 - Jul 2 by lowhouseblue |
excellent, we are discussing the criteria for admitting migrants. high skilled, working for the nhs a very definite yes. legitimate refugees under our international obligations a definite yes. low skilled, economically inactive, going into low paid low productivity work, it's a no from me. if we can set out the criteria for allowing migrants we then get a basis for determining numbers.
the thing about the op and the first few replies it that it again tries to frame the immigration debate as nice people who like foreigners and see the value in migrants v. nasty xenophobes who have an irrational dislike of anyone foreign. then the line goes the latter just need to be educated. in reality the debate isn't: migration yes or no, it's how many and what sort.
yes we do have emigrants from the uk - which is why the 3 million in 4 years figure i refereed to was net migration. |
Here's a fact for you though.
The employment rate of the Population aged 16 to 64 has barely changed over the the past fifty years. it sits at around 75% (Office for National /statistics). So if we are getting swamped with unskilled immigrants it appears that they have no significant impact on the numbers and they find employment just as actively as established brits.
In addition they do add to the number of workers and their taxes get to help pay my pension. [Post edited 2 Jul 13:04]
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| Thank God for immigrants on 13:12 - Jul 2 with 256 views | lowhouseblue |
| Thank God for immigrants on 13:02 - Jul 2 by Crawfordsboot |
Here's a fact for you though.
The employment rate of the Population aged 16 to 64 has barely changed over the the past fifty years. it sits at around 75% (Office for National /statistics). So if we are getting swamped with unskilled immigrants it appears that they have no significant impact on the numbers and they find employment just as actively as established brits.
In addition they do add to the number of workers and their taxes get to help pay my pension. [Post edited 2 Jul 13:04]
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we have 1.4 million foreign nationals between 18 and 64, excluding students, who are economically inactive (also ons statistics). how does that make any sense?
in terms of your final sentence, alas that is out of date and no longer true. prior to brexit migrants were overwhelmingly young, economically active, skilled, qualified and paid as well as uk nationals. they were a net fiscal benefit (taxes paid exceeding any costs to the public purse). that is no longer the case. now on average migrants are lower skilled, a higher proportion are economically inactive, and their wages on average are below those for uk workers. on average they are a now a net fiscal draw (obr statistic). so, by your reasoning, immigration is now making it harder to keep paying your pension. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Thank God for immigrants on 15:31 - Jul 2 with 195 views | Gogs |
| Thank God for immigrants on 12:35 - Jul 2 by lowhouseblue |
excellent, we are discussing the criteria for admitting migrants. high skilled, working for the nhs a very definite yes. legitimate refugees under our international obligations a definite yes. low skilled, economically inactive, going into low paid low productivity work, it's a no from me. if we can set out the criteria for allowing migrants we then get a basis for determining numbers.
the thing about the op and the first few replies it that it again tries to frame the immigration debate as nice people who like foreigners and see the value in migrants v. nasty xenophobes who have an irrational dislike of anyone foreign. then the line goes the latter just need to be educated. in reality the debate isn't: migration yes or no, it's how many and what sort.
yes we do have emigrants from the uk - which is why the 3 million in 4 years figure i refereed to was net migration. |
Not wishing to play a game of ‘gotcha’ here but can you define what you mean by ‘low skilled, economically inactive, going into low paid low productivity work’ specifically the low skilled/paid/productivity’ parts please? Economically inactive I understand and agree with, I may or may not agree with the rest of what you say, but to my mind at least there are low skilled and low paid jobs which still need doing and I’m not sure we have a native (if that’s the right word) workforce willing or able to do it, and I don’t know how you square that circle without migrant workers |  | | |
| Thank God for immigrants on 15:34 - Jul 2 with 188 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Thank God for immigrants on 13:12 - Jul 2 by lowhouseblue |
we have 1.4 million foreign nationals between 18 and 64, excluding students, who are economically inactive (also ons statistics). how does that make any sense?
in terms of your final sentence, alas that is out of date and no longer true. prior to brexit migrants were overwhelmingly young, economically active, skilled, qualified and paid as well as uk nationals. they were a net fiscal benefit (taxes paid exceeding any costs to the public purse). that is no longer the case. now on average migrants are lower skilled, a higher proportion are economically inactive, and their wages on average are below those for uk workers. on average they are a now a net fiscal draw (obr statistic). so, by your reasoning, immigration is now making it harder to keep paying your pension. |
I think your logic is flawed. Just because a working immigrant might be lower paid does not make it harder to pay my pension. An extra worker albeit perhaps lower paid still contributes tax and national insurance.
There used to be roughly four working age individuals to every pensioner. There are now approximately three. Workers today need all the help they can get to keep me in the style to which I have grown accustomed. | | | |
| Thank God for immigrants on 15:44 - Jul 2 with 171 views | lowhouseblue |
| Thank God for immigrants on 15:34 - Jul 2 by Crawfordsboot |
I think your logic is flawed. Just because a working immigrant might be lower paid does not make it harder to pay my pension. An extra worker albeit perhaps lower paid still contributes tax and national insurance.
There used to be roughly four working age individuals to every pensioner. There are now approximately three. Workers today need all the help they can get to keep me in the style to which I have grown accustomed. |
well you need to argue with the obr. they say that on average the cost of services consumed by new migrants exceeds the tax they pay. the net fiscal contribution is negative. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Thank God for immigrants on 21:04 - Jul 2 with 79 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Thank God for immigrants on 15:44 - Jul 2 by lowhouseblue |
well you need to argue with the obr. they say that on average the cost of services consumed by new migrants exceeds the tax they pay. the net fiscal contribution is negative. |
that's to be expected in year one but they do not remain "new" immigrants for long do they! [Post edited 2 Jul 21:05]
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| Thank God for immigrants on 21:04 - Jul 2 with 72 views | lowhouseblue |
| Thank God for immigrants on 21:04 - Jul 2 by Crawfordsboot |
that's to be expected in year one but they do not remain "new" immigrants for long do they! [Post edited 2 Jul 21:05]
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the obr is a life time estimate. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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