| Woolfenden and Burgess 11:39 - Sep 1 with 1747 views | StevieH |
is a better CB pairing than O'Shea and Greaves.
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:14 - Sep 1 with 303 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:05 - Sep 1 by pointofblue |
Look at the style of goals we conceded. In our last Championship season it was because teams played through our midfield. This year, teams are bypassing out midfield, as it's harder to do, but our centre backs seem to be struggling with dealing with them. |
Bit wolf tinted there POB
Our centre backs are struggling to deal with them?
we have the 2nd best xGA in the league at the moment
https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:15 - Sep 1 with 294 views | BeachBlue |
Burgess has left.
Woolfenden is in his way to Coventry.
Time to move on. |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:18 - Sep 1 with 273 views | pointofblue |
And yet we're two injury time penalties from one point on the board from four games. We were defensively shocking for Derby's goals on Saturday. The mess of playing out from the back at Birmingham (Woolfenden's big strength). The panic from crosses at Preston before they scored. We look suspect aerially. A free header for Southampton. Some of that may be down to Palmer as well, but all four goals conceded this season have been imminently preventable. And all have come from pressure on the backline rather than being split open through the middle. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:22 - Sep 1 with 252 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:44 - Sep 1 by pointofblue |
I think the issue is O'Shea and Greaves really don't seem to be building an understanding, despite starting a number of games together both last season and this. That lack of understanding led to Derby's penalty on Saturday. It's not as though they haven't had time together.
O'Shea & Burgess and Woolfenden & Greaves looked much better as partnerships last season. It's another example of going from more than the sum of our parts to less. |
There's a lot of talk about their lack of 'understanding', I'm not sure I see the evidence. They split at Brum to give Palmer 2 options before he limply lofted a ball to the weakest kitten on the pitch, otherwise I thought we looked relatively robust.
Greaves thought he had turned in to peak Maldini against Southampton in the middle and lost the ball for their goal, again aside from that we weren't too troubled. We gave away a cheap pen at Preston, otherwise comfortable. Saturday O'Shea tried to take a ball on his chest for the 2nd that he could've nodded to either Cajuste or Matusiwa. The first is perhaps one where Greaves doesn't cover O'Shea well enough and we get undone by a pretty basic ball that leads to the pen.
I don't think we're routinely looking vulnerable defensively though, we've not given up loads and loads of chances, we've conceded 5 goals and at least 3 or 4 are really soft individual errors. |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:22 - Sep 1 with 250 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:18 - Sep 1 by pointofblue |
And yet we're two injury time penalties from one point on the board from four games. We were defensively shocking for Derby's goals on Saturday. The mess of playing out from the back at Birmingham (Woolfenden's big strength). The panic from crosses at Preston before they scored. We look suspect aerially. A free header for Southampton. Some of that may be down to Palmer as well, but all four goals conceded this season have been imminently preventable. And all have come from pressure on the backline rather than being split open through the middle. |
And yet we're two injury time penalties from one point on the board from four games.
Yes because we arent hitting the target
TBH Palmer offers nothing with set pieces, i;ve said this since day one with him coming in, he can save the occasional shot, but apart from that he's actually really average and terrible imo at claiming crosses.
But like most of our squad at the moment, a team full of individuals, if and when they become a team no one will be bemoaning wolfy leaving.
We arent looking weak at the back at all, nothing like the we've done in the past, a few individual errors have happened but individual errors do happen. [Post edited 1 Sep 13:24]
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:27 - Sep 1 with 240 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:01 - Sep 1 by Garv |
Did O'Shea do much wrong apart from the chest down for the second goal? |
This is part of the problem - some posters see one or two errors, and that makes the players 'bad' despite all the excellent stuff they do. Granted when the mistakes lead to a goal, it also elevates the reaction.
Added to that, the errors are current and fresh in mind, not history and blurred by time. I remember plenty of heart-in-mouth moments with both Woolfenden and Burgess. That certainly didn't make them bad players.
O'Shea and Greaves imo do the good things better, but don't yet seem quite on the same wavelength all of the time. But then again, I don't think they've had very much time as an uninterrupted pairing yet, with Greaves' injury and then intermittent involvement after he returned? | | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:29 - Sep 1 with 232 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:27 - Sep 1 by SuffolkPunchFC |
This is part of the problem - some posters see one or two errors, and that makes the players 'bad' despite all the excellent stuff they do. Granted when the mistakes lead to a goal, it also elevates the reaction.
Added to that, the errors are current and fresh in mind, not history and blurred by time. I remember plenty of heart-in-mouth moments with both Woolfenden and Burgess. That certainly didn't make them bad players.
O'Shea and Greaves imo do the good things better, but don't yet seem quite on the same wavelength all of the time. But then again, I don't think they've had very much time as an uninterrupted pairing yet, with Greaves' injury and then intermittent involvement after he returned? |
Also, playing with different fullbacks, cms etc
KM talks of patterns of play, this is the same for the cbs. | |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:30 - Sep 1 with 229 views | pointofblue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:22 - Sep 1 by FrimleyBlue |
And yet we're two injury time penalties from one point on the board from four games.
Yes because we arent hitting the target
TBH Palmer offers nothing with set pieces, i;ve said this since day one with him coming in, he can save the occasional shot, but apart from that he's actually really average and terrible imo at claiming crosses.
But like most of our squad at the moment, a team full of individuals, if and when they become a team no one will be bemoaning wolfy leaving.
We arent looking weak at the back at all, nothing like the we've done in the past, a few individual errors have happened but individual errors do happen. [Post edited 1 Sep 13:24]
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We'll have to agree to disagree. I think our weakness at the back before was due to an issue with midfield and teams cutting through us. That's not happening now but teams are finding it too easy to play the ball over the top to get to our defence.
O'Shea had a dreadful game Saturday. Not just with the errors leading to goals but generally he struggled to handle Morris. If that had been Woolfenden he would have been torn to shreds on here, with posters claiming it was a clear example of him being too weak physically and struggling in the air. | |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:40 - Sep 1 with 204 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:30 - Sep 1 by pointofblue |
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think our weakness at the back before was due to an issue with midfield and teams cutting through us. That's not happening now but teams are finding it too easy to play the ball over the top to get to our defence.
O'Shea had a dreadful game Saturday. Not just with the errors leading to goals but generally he struggled to handle Morris. If that had been Woolfenden he would have been torn to shreds on here, with posters claiming it was a clear example of him being too weak physically and struggling in the air. |
He had a tough game, but he did a solid job overall
7 out of 10 headers won
3 out of 4 ground duels won
only dribbled past once
What is interesting though is the way KM utilises him, on the ball, he only managed 5 accurate long balls from 16 attempts.
But defensively, he was solid enough | |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:41 - Sep 1 with 195 views | BeachBlue |
Butcher and Osman is better than either of them! ;-) | | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:42 - Sep 1 with 195 views | Vic |
We really have short memories don't we! Although we got promoted with them they were part of a defensive unity that was by far and away our weakest point as a team. We got promotion despite them and not because of them.
Don;t get me wrong, I liked them both, but together they weren't really up to it and KM was right to look for upgrades. I really, really like Wolfie, but have to admit that I think Burgess was the better of the two and thunk we miss him as in my opinion him and O'Shea were better than O'Shea and Grieves. But understandably he wanted more 1st team play than we were willing to promise and in a world cup year he needed to go elsewhere for that. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:45 - Sep 1 with 172 views | JammyDodgerrr |
Great. It doesn't matter. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:51 - Sep 1 with 158 views | pointofblue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:42 - Sep 1 by Vic |
We really have short memories don't we! Although we got promoted with them they were part of a defensive unity that was by far and away our weakest point as a team. We got promotion despite them and not because of them.
Don;t get me wrong, I liked them both, but together they weren't really up to it and KM was right to look for upgrades. I really, really like Wolfie, but have to admit that I think Burgess was the better of the two and thunk we miss him as in my opinion him and O'Shea were better than O'Shea and Grieves. But understandably he wanted more 1st team play than we were willing to promise and in a world cup year he needed to go elsewhere for that. |
If you want to blame the defence for conceding goals then this season is the season. I'll stand by - admittedly in the minority - belief that our issue in the last couple of seasons has been we left our defence too exposed too often. We were easy to play though via midfield. | |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 14:08 - Sep 1 with 142 views | BrockleyBlue78 |
Yup |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 14:57 - Sep 1 with 114 views | blueoutlook |
No way are O’Shea and Greaves worth that much more than Wolf and Burgess were. KM has to play them though to justify the price tags,hence wolf and Burgess got dumped. |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 15:11 - Sep 1 with 104 views | billlm |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:01 - Sep 1 by Garv |
Did O'Shea do much wrong apart from the chest down for the second goal? |
Trying to overplay in completely the wrong place jeez,
Cost us,
Him and greaves can be very sloppy hope they gel this season,
If they both have a good game on the same day we win,
Greaves was fine Saturday |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 15:19 - Sep 1 with 91 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 15:11 - Sep 1 by billlm |
Trying to overplay in completely the wrong place jeez,
Cost us,
Him and greaves can be very sloppy hope they gel this season,
If they both have a good game on the same day we win,
Greaves was fine Saturday |
wasnt really an overplay was it, 9 times out of 10 that ball bounces down and he's taken the ball up the pitch, just unlucky
easy for us to say just head it, but KM does want his players to keep the ball. | |
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| It was 25mins of good football, not excellent and not reasonable on 18:03 - Sep 1 with 47 views | unstableblue |
| A confident OShea and Greaves are far better than Wolfie/Burgess on 12:43 - Sep 1 by BlueForYou |
We saw 15 mins of reasonable football. Enough to see what we could be like. We weren't in the game for the first 30 mins. The second half was one almighty mess. |
And as you say it showed the art of the possible with this group
Ian Westlake was nailing it on the commentary to say our midfield two were on another level and Cajuste was dominating- chances were carved
We had to get that penalty. Ridiculous it wasn’t given.
Second half was a complete basket case - and I’m not sure Town could do much about it.
Total dark arts from Derby - including perhaps a red card for Travis who’d been instructed to put one on Cajuste.
Some of their injuries were clearly staged, and were orchestrated with the medical teams. Ref has to nail it. |  |
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