| Oh the irony Wes! on 11:50 - Sep 4 with 572 views | GlasgowBlue |
Getting the thread back to Wes Streeting, my view is that the privilled left despise people like Streeting. Somebody who grew up in abject poverty and now in a position of power will put practical measures they believe will help the poor above a socialist utopia and ideology that the chattering classes can afford to to experiment with. See also Alan Johnson. |  |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 12:06 - Sep 4 with 560 views | jayessess |
One likely pertinent factor in Linehan's arrest is that he's also currently charged with harassing and attacking a trans woman and destroying her phone ( http://bit.ly/3K31h94 ), which is going to inform any judgement as to whether a tweet is a genuine incitement to violence or just a turn of phrase.
Think prior to the Supreme Court decision a lot of people felt they had to dress outright hatred of trans people in some sort of 'legitimate concern', coupled with various assurances about not actually hating trans people. There's been an unwelcome shift of late where outright transphobes, people who are just plain bigots, are being held up as martyrs (see also Sandie Peggie - https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie ).
[Post edited 4 Sep 13:39]
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 12:56 - Sep 4 with 483 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
I look forward to seeing her in a Palestine Action T shirt to smash home the point. |  |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:16 - Sep 4 with 446 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 11:50 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Getting the thread back to Wes Streeting, my view is that the privilled left despise people like Streeting. Somebody who grew up in abject poverty and now in a position of power will put practical measures they believe will help the poor above a socialist utopia and ideology that the chattering classes can afford to to experiment with. See also Alan Johnson. |
I despise Streeting because although he's reaped the benefits of gay activists over the years striving against prejudice to improve the position of gay people in society, he's willing to work with the Baywater group and the LGB Alliance (both virulent anti-trans organisations) to prevent the same thing for trans people.
The (in my view) unjustified fear that has been whipped up against trans people in recent years is exactly the same fear that was whipped up in the 80s against gay men and led to Section 28 - many anti-trans gay and lesbian people today seem to forget that. |  |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:28 - Sep 4 with 358 views | lowhouseblue |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 12:06 - Sep 4 by jayessess |
One likely pertinent factor in Linehan's arrest is that he's also currently charged with harassing and attacking a trans woman and destroying her phone ( http://bit.ly/3K31h94 ), which is going to inform any judgement as to whether a tweet is a genuine incitement to violence or just a turn of phrase.
Think prior to the Supreme Court decision a lot of people felt they had to dress outright hatred of trans people in some sort of 'legitimate concern', coupled with various assurances about not actually hating trans people. There's been an unwelcome shift of late where outright transphobes, people who are just plain bigots, are being held up as martyrs (see also Sandie Peggie - https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie ).
[Post edited 4 Sep 13:39]
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he's not charged with assault. that allegation is about things he said.
probably best to wait for what the employment tribunal finds about sandie peggie. the issue there is her legal right to a single sex changing room and the resulting discrimination she encountered from her employer. if you think it's ok to compel women to change in front of males, including in this case when she was dealing with a heavy period, then you're in a minority. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:34 - Sep 4 with 335 views | lowhouseblue |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:16 - Sep 4 by Ewan_Oozami |
I despise Streeting because although he's reaped the benefits of gay activists over the years striving against prejudice to improve the position of gay people in society, he's willing to work with the Baywater group and the LGB Alliance (both virulent anti-trans organisations) to prevent the same thing for trans people.
The (in my view) unjustified fear that has been whipped up against trans people in recent years is exactly the same fear that was whipped up in the 80s against gay men and led to Section 28 - many anti-trans gay and lesbian people today seem to forget that. |
i don't think there is any fear about trans people. i think almost every one respects their right to adopt the gender expression of their choice and for them to be protected by the law in so doing. the issue where people disagree is whether someone can change their sex and in so doing claim legal rights and protections reserved to biological women. it's important to be clear about what is disputed and what isn't - otherwise you present a highly distorted and emotive version. if activists hadn't pushed the 'trans women are women" line and demanded access to women's spaces on the basis of self-id i suspect none of the current disagreements would have occurred. all sane people want to leave trans people to get on with lives within what we know to be biological realities. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:38 - Sep 4 with 336 views | bartyg |
I do wish we could have a political thread which doesn't devolve into whether trans people have the right to exist publicly
Usual suspect I see |  | | |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:40 - Sep 4 with 272 views | lowhouseblue |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:38 - Sep 4 by bartyg |
I do wish we could have a political thread which doesn't devolve into whether trans people have the right to exist publicly
Usual suspect I see |
go on, point out anything in the thread that has said trans people don't have the right to exist publicly. it's entirely dishonest distortion of what's been said. the right of trans people to exist publicly is of course fully protected by the law. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:41 - Sep 4 with 295 views | Blueschev |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:38 - Sep 4 by bartyg |
I do wish we could have a political thread which doesn't devolve into whether trans people have the right to exist publicly
Usual suspect I see |
I read that as pubicly first, which would be a real grey area. |  | | |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:45 - Sep 4 with 263 views | giant_stow |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:38 - Sep 4 by bartyg |
I do wish we could have a political thread which doesn't devolve into whether trans people have the right to exist publicly
Usual suspect I see |
Don't think Lowhouse has ever said trans people shouldn't exist. |  |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:46 - Sep 4 with 257 views | bartyg |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:41 - Sep 4 by Blueschev |
I read that as pubicly first, which would be a real grey area. |
What's between someone's legs, shaved or not, is their business | | | |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:46 - Sep 4 with 257 views | J2BLUE |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:34 - Sep 4 by lowhouseblue |
i don't think there is any fear about trans people. i think almost every one respects their right to adopt the gender expression of their choice and for them to be protected by the law in so doing. the issue where people disagree is whether someone can change their sex and in so doing claim legal rights and protections reserved to biological women. it's important to be clear about what is disputed and what isn't - otherwise you present a highly distorted and emotive version. if activists hadn't pushed the 'trans women are women" line and demanded access to women's spaces on the basis of self-id i suspect none of the current disagreements would have occurred. all sane people want to leave trans people to get on with lives within what we know to be biological realities. |
Exactly this. The previous generation of TWTD forum moral arbiters used to tell us there was a difference between gender and sex. A sensible point no one really argued with but now that position has been forgotten.
I would go out of my way to put a trans person at ease and deliberately use whatever chosen name and pronouns they have chosen as soon as possible just to make the point but biological fact isn't something anyone should be arguing about. |  |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:54 - Sep 4 with 207 views | bartyg |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:46 - Sep 4 by J2BLUE |
Exactly this. The previous generation of TWTD forum moral arbiters used to tell us there was a difference between gender and sex. A sensible point no one really argued with but now that position has been forgotten.
I would go out of my way to put a trans person at ease and deliberately use whatever chosen name and pronouns they have chosen as soon as possible just to make the point but biological fact isn't something anyone should be arguing about. |
Clearly there is a difference. Where we differ is which should affect how people are treated in public life.
From a lot of what I've seen the insistence to call trans woman "biological men" is born of hatred rather than anything else. Current legislation also basically exempts them from many public spaces, effectively legislating them out of existence.
I have LHB blocked so won't be responding to anything he has raised.
(To add, medical transition does change a lot of sexual identifiers so it's not actually cut and dry) | | | |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:56 - Sep 4 with 187 views | jayessess |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:38 - Sep 4 by bartyg |
I do wish we could have a political thread which doesn't devolve into whether trans people have the right to exist publicly
Usual suspect I see |
I think the weird thing for me is that the consensus view now seems to be the paradox that (a) trans rights are so wildly unpopular that advocating for them would be political suicide but also that (b) "transphobes", people who actually hate trans people, don't exist (or if they do exist they aren't really a problem and you shouldn't call them that).
There's dozens of stories of Linehan harassing and abusing people (including cis women!) in his obsession with trans people. You can see some in the replies and quotes on this post:
Graham Linehan once took issue with a sketch I did and tweeted about me referring to me not by name but only as to who my boyfriend was and called me an NPC ( non player character.) It was misogynistic and his “standing up for women” schtick is baloney. — Rosie Holt (@rosieisaholt.bsky.social) 2025-09-03T22:09:13.885Z
The idea he's just some innocent who's been set upon by the trans lobby and targeted by the thought police is baloney. [Post edited 4 Sep 14:01]
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:57 - Sep 4 with 182 views | J2BLUE |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:54 - Sep 4 by bartyg |
Clearly there is a difference. Where we differ is which should affect how people are treated in public life.
From a lot of what I've seen the insistence to call trans woman "biological men" is born of hatred rather than anything else. Current legislation also basically exempts them from many public spaces, effectively legislating them out of existence.
I have LHB blocked so won't be responding to anything he has raised.
(To add, medical transition does change a lot of sexual identifiers so it's not actually cut and dry) |
Surely single sex spaces are ok?
There is no doubt there is some hatred but I think a lot of the "biological men" stuff is because of this blurring of the lines. | |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 14:01 - Sep 4 with 146 views | lowhouseblue |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:54 - Sep 4 by bartyg |
Clearly there is a difference. Where we differ is which should affect how people are treated in public life.
From a lot of what I've seen the insistence to call trans woman "biological men" is born of hatred rather than anything else. Current legislation also basically exempts them from many public spaces, effectively legislating them out of existence.
I have LHB blocked so won't be responding to anything he has raised.
(To add, medical transition does change a lot of sexual identifiers so it's not actually cut and dry) |
"call trans woman "biological men" is born of hatred". no it's biological fact. it is science - the sort of thing people on here usually distain others for ignoring.
"effectively legislating them out of existence". that is not true. they can't claim the rights reserved to biological women because they are not biological women. every other form of gender expression is open to them and fully protected in law.
your arguments have no basis in science or law - having me blocked seems to be only one aspect of determinedly closed mind. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 14:04 - Sep 4 with 137 views | bartyg |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:57 - Sep 4 by J2BLUE |
Surely single sex spaces are ok?
There is no doubt there is some hatred but I think a lot of the "biological men" stuff is because of this blurring of the lines. |
Maybe in theory, but in practice they are illogical. Nobody has an answer as to how these would be policed and in practice it leads to confrontations over how feminine women present (how very feminist).
Don't get your second point. Nothing excuses bigotry I'm afraid | | | |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 14:05 - Sep 4 with 121 views | jayessess |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 13:54 - Sep 4 by bartyg |
Clearly there is a difference. Where we differ is which should affect how people are treated in public life.
From a lot of what I've seen the insistence to call trans woman "biological men" is born of hatred rather than anything else. Current legislation also basically exempts them from many public spaces, effectively legislating them out of existence.
I have LHB blocked so won't be responding to anything he has raised.
(To add, medical transition does change a lot of sexual identifiers so it's not actually cut and dry) |
Ironically one of the groups of people who'll tell you that biological sex is complicated and doesn't conform to common sense expectations are ... geneticists and biologists. [Post edited 4 Sep 14:09]
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 14:13 - Sep 4 with 55 views | DJR |
Interesting to note the provisions of section 9(1) of the Gender Recognition Act 2004.
"9(1) Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman)."
The Supreme Court decided (perhaps surprisingly) that this didn't apply to the Equality Act 2010 but it applies for all other purposes.
The Gender Recognition Act 2004 came about as a result of an ECHR judgment, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Supreme Court decision finds its way there.
For my own part, I do feel rather sorry in particular for those (not many) who have got a gender recognition certificate because the goalposts have moved from what they would have thought was the case given the clear wording of section 9(1).. [Post edited 4 Sep 14:21]
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| Oh the irony Wes! on 14:22 - Sep 4 with 13 views | J2BLUE |
| Oh the irony Wes! on 14:04 - Sep 4 by bartyg |
Maybe in theory, but in practice they are illogical. Nobody has an answer as to how these would be policed and in practice it leads to confrontations over how feminine women present (how very feminist).
Don't get your second point. Nothing excuses bigotry I'm afraid |
I've mainly seen it from women who want their own single sex spaces and they use it to highlight the point. | |
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