| Trumps peace deals 21:36 - Sep 29 with 1540 views | nodge_blue |
Why doesn't he bother making sure Hamas has agreed to it before declaring one on the best days in the history of humanity? |  |
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| Trumps peace deals on 21:39 - Sep 29 with 1414 views | Plums |
He's too smart at making imaginary great deals to worry about such details |  |
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| Trumps peace deals on 22:10 - Sep 29 with 1320 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Trump said: “To ensure the success of this effort, my plan calls for a new international oversight body – the Board of Peace – which will be headed, not at my request … by a gentleman known as President Donald J Trump of the United States.”
The president caused uproar earlier this year when he spoke of turning Gaza into a “Riviera of the Middle East” that involved massive financial investment and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Monday’s 20-point plan does state that “a Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energise Gaza will be created by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving modern miracle cities in the Middle East”. |  |
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| Trumps peace deals on 22:17 - Sep 29 with 1297 views | Swansea_Blue |
Blair’s grubby fingerprints all over this too  |  |
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| Trumps peace deals on 22:18 - Sep 29 with 1297 views | nodge_blue |
| Trumps peace deals on 22:10 - Sep 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Trump said: “To ensure the success of this effort, my plan calls for a new international oversight body – the Board of Peace – which will be headed, not at my request … by a gentleman known as President Donald J Trump of the United States.”
The president caused uproar earlier this year when he spoke of turning Gaza into a “Riviera of the Middle East” that involved massive financial investment and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Monday’s 20-point plan does state that “a Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energise Gaza will be created by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving modern miracle cities in the Middle East”. |
Are you trying to suggest its not about peace and more about Trump towers? Dont worry i hear Tony Blair is on the peace board and hes great at sorting out Middle East problems. | |
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| Trumps peace deals on 22:29 - Sep 29 with 1261 views | ParisBlue |
His aim is to be a future Nobel Peace Prize winner. |  |
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| Trumps peace deals on 07:14 - Sep 30 with 987 views | BrandonsBlues |
| Trumps peace deals on 22:29 - Sep 29 by ParisBlue |
His aim is to be a future Nobel Peace Prize winner. |
Is it, he has not mentioned that at all |  | | |
| Trumps peace deals on 08:17 - Sep 30 with 902 views | Ftnfwest |
Most inconvenient, how are they going to continue executing their citizens in the street under any 'peace deal'? |  | | |
| Trumps peace deals on 08:19 - Sep 30 with 893 views | blueislander |
Probably because Hamas won’t accept all the conditions . | | | |
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| Trumps peace deals on 08:52 - Sep 30 with 844 views | bluejacko |
Well I hope Blair has not convinced Starmer to commit British troops to any policing of this very unlikely deal! | | | |
| Trumps peace deals on 08:57 - Sep 30 with 808 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Trumps peace deals on 08:19 - Sep 30 by blueislander |
Probably because Hamas won’t accept all the conditions . |
It seems neither side has agreed all aspects - seems pretty much as fragile as all the other ‘deals’ and ceasefires that have been ‘agreed’.
Doesn’t look like Hamas will get any part of running Gaza in the future which is obviously a good thing. Presumably some kind of neutral peacekeeping force will be needed (not that it’s been remotely effective at policing the Lebanese border). | | | |
| Trumps peace deals on 09:24 - Sep 30 with 733 views | DJR |
A few observations.
1. It was said on the World Service that Biden put forward a not dissimilar plan back in June 2024 but it is clear that Netanyahu never wanted to sign up to it.
2. As long ago as October 2024, the IDF stated that Hamas had been defeated militarily.
3. As regards Netanyahu, and with the state of Gaza, this deal appears to be a case of "heads we win, tails you lose" given he gets what he wants if Hamas sign up and that Trump has given him carte blanche if Hamas don't agree.
4. The deal is lacking in any detail, something that is crucial in peace settlements.
5. What's to prevent Netanyahu reneging on the deal at any point?
5. Overriding everything is this
"Netanyahu remains “very clear about his opposition to a Palestinian state”, Trump says."
EDIT: it is tempting to think that this deal is set up to fail especially given no attempt to involve Hamas in the process. [Post edited 30 Sep 9:37]
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| Trumps peace deals on 10:08 - Sep 30 with 625 views | Blueschev |
| Trumps peace deals on 09:24 - Sep 30 by DJR |
A few observations.
1. It was said on the World Service that Biden put forward a not dissimilar plan back in June 2024 but it is clear that Netanyahu never wanted to sign up to it.
2. As long ago as October 2024, the IDF stated that Hamas had been defeated militarily.
3. As regards Netanyahu, and with the state of Gaza, this deal appears to be a case of "heads we win, tails you lose" given he gets what he wants if Hamas sign up and that Trump has given him carte blanche if Hamas don't agree.
4. The deal is lacking in any detail, something that is crucial in peace settlements.
5. What's to prevent Netanyahu reneging on the deal at any point?
5. Overriding everything is this
"Netanyahu remains “very clear about his opposition to a Palestinian state”, Trump says."
EDIT: it is tempting to think that this deal is set up to fail especially given no attempt to involve Hamas in the process. [Post edited 30 Sep 9:37]
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I'd argue that every proposed peace agreement since the early 90's has been set up to fail. If Israel were ever serious about a peaceful resolution why does settlement construction always continue, and often increase, during the negotiations?
This "peace plan" will also fail. Israel will claim that Hamas breached the agreement no matter what happens and continue until Gaza is uninhabitable.
There will never be a Palestinian state, Israel want all of the land and always have, and they hold all of the cards. |  | | |
| Trumps peace deals on 10:21 - Sep 30 with 594 views | EuanTown |
Hamas like Ukraine do not have a say. And yes hamas started it, unlike Ukraine. As for all this talk of being one of the greatest things of all time.
Please, there is no agreement, no details in the proposal. And he stated that if hamas don't agree, Israel can carry on with his backing.
As I have said before for a business man and leader of the free world his oration is so poor. The man speaks so badly.
How much longer have we got of his abysmal politics. [Post edited 30 Sep 10:23]
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| Trumps peace deals on 10:37 - Sep 30 with 556 views | Guthrum |
The deal itself is far more even handed than I expected. It really does seem to have been put together with consideration of the views of the international community and regional stakeholders (Iran excepted). It will not please the hard-liners on either side. Can see people walking out of Natanyahu's government. Likewise Hamas splinter groups are still going to cause trouble.
From the broad outlines, it seems to ieffectively internationalise the enclave, under a regime which will likely be more benign than either Hamas or the present Israeli administration. And one with massive financial clout in terms of reconstruction*, but without any mad resettlement/expulsion schemes. There is an amnesty, plus the right to leave and return. It won't be full Palestinian statehood, but will preserve a quasi-autonomy.
Most crucially, there is an instant cessation of the killing, a withdrawal of forces, a return of hostages and a release of prisoners (including wartime detainees).
Netanyahu has been forced to accept this** and I expect Hamas will be leant upon heavily to do likewise. Iran's strength and prestige are significantly reduced, so will have less influence towards refusal.
As for Trump's language, it was a dreadful, rambling speech, full of braggadocio, which BBC radio finally got bored with and cut away to analysis. But that's just him.
* One of the biggest issues for Gaza has been its lack of economic viability (under Israeli semi-blockade), forcing people into Hamas service to earn a living.
** Make no mistake, this is far from everything he wanted. |  |
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| Trumps peace deals on 10:42 - Sep 30 with 520 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Trumps peace deals on 10:37 - Sep 30 by Guthrum |
The deal itself is far more even handed than I expected. It really does seem to have been put together with consideration of the views of the international community and regional stakeholders (Iran excepted). It will not please the hard-liners on either side. Can see people walking out of Natanyahu's government. Likewise Hamas splinter groups are still going to cause trouble.
From the broad outlines, it seems to ieffectively internationalise the enclave, under a regime which will likely be more benign than either Hamas or the present Israeli administration. And one with massive financial clout in terms of reconstruction*, but without any mad resettlement/expulsion schemes. There is an amnesty, plus the right to leave and return. It won't be full Palestinian statehood, but will preserve a quasi-autonomy.
Most crucially, there is an instant cessation of the killing, a withdrawal of forces, a return of hostages and a release of prisoners (including wartime detainees).
Netanyahu has been forced to accept this** and I expect Hamas will be leant upon heavily to do likewise. Iran's strength and prestige are significantly reduced, so will have less influence towards refusal.
As for Trump's language, it was a dreadful, rambling speech, full of braggadocio, which BBC radio finally got bored with and cut away to analysis. But that's just him.
* One of the biggest issues for Gaza has been its lack of economic viability (under Israeli semi-blockade), forcing people into Hamas service to earn a living.
** Make no mistake, this is far from everything he wanted. |
You cannot get a full settlement unless there are guarantees that Israel will cease expansion into the West Bank. |  |
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| Trumps peace deals on 10:47 - Sep 30 with 497 views | DJR |
From the Guardian.
In a video statement published on his Telegram channel discussing his visit to the US, Benjamin Netanyahu said the IDF “will remain in most of the territory” as part of the plan drawn up with Trump, and that Israel did “absolutely not” agree to a Palestinian state. Netanyahu said:
"It was a historic visit. Instead of Hamas leading to our isolation, we turned the tables and isolated Hamas. Now the entire world, including the Arab and Muslim world, is pressuring Hamas to accept the conditions we set together with President Trump: to release all our abducted – both living and dead – while the IDF remains in most of the territory."
Asked whether he had agreed to a Palestinian state during his visit, Netanyahu said:
"Absolutely not, and it is not written in the agreement either. But one thing we did say: we are firmly opposed to a Palestinian state. President Trump also said this; he said he understands our position. He also declared at the UN that such a move would be a huge reward for terror and a danger to the state of Israel. And of course, we will not agree to it." | | | |
| Trumps peace deals on 10:58 - Sep 30 with 469 views | Guthrum |
| Trumps peace deals on 10:42 - Sep 30 by Pinewoodblue |
You cannot get a full settlement unless there are guarantees that Israel will cease expansion into the West Bank. |
You can. It's been very carefully separated from anything to do with the Palestinian Authority - who have had effectively no influence in Gaza since Hamas took control there.
This is something like a three-state solution. Which, administratively, logistically and geographically, is more viable than a unified-but-fragmented Palestinian state. Even historically, the West Bank was taken by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt.
Any attempt to suppress the settler movement would have made this plan a non-starter for Netanyahu. It would pretty much ensure the fall of his government. | |
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| Trumps peace deals on 11:01 - Sep 30 with 452 views | Guthrum |
| Trumps peace deals on 10:47 - Sep 30 by DJR |
From the Guardian.
In a video statement published on his Telegram channel discussing his visit to the US, Benjamin Netanyahu said the IDF “will remain in most of the territory” as part of the plan drawn up with Trump, and that Israel did “absolutely not” agree to a Palestinian state. Netanyahu said:
"It was a historic visit. Instead of Hamas leading to our isolation, we turned the tables and isolated Hamas. Now the entire world, including the Arab and Muslim world, is pressuring Hamas to accept the conditions we set together with President Trump: to release all our abducted – both living and dead – while the IDF remains in most of the territory."
Asked whether he had agreed to a Palestinian state during his visit, Netanyahu said:
"Absolutely not, and it is not written in the agreement either. But one thing we did say: we are firmly opposed to a Palestinian state. President Trump also said this; he said he understands our position. He also declared at the UN that such a move would be a huge reward for terror and a danger to the state of Israel. And of course, we will not agree to it." |
That's not what the public outline of the plan says. But then Netanyahu would come out with this kind of stuff. He's returning to face the fury of his hard-line backers (who want Gaza and the West Bank erased from the map) and may be forced from power as a result. | |
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| Trumps peace deals on 11:14 - Sep 30 with 426 views | Guthrum |
| Trumps peace deals on 08:57 - Sep 30 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It seems neither side has agreed all aspects - seems pretty much as fragile as all the other ‘deals’ and ceasefires that have been ‘agreed’.
Doesn’t look like Hamas will get any part of running Gaza in the future which is obviously a good thing. Presumably some kind of neutral peacekeeping force will be needed (not that it’s been remotely effective at policing the Lebanese border). |
Depends upon its limits of operation and rules of engagement. The UN units on the Lebanese border are in an observation role only. They have no power (or the military strength) to impose upon either side.
Israel are never going to attack a peacekeeping force including American troops.
But the biggest thing will be if reconstruction and development money flows into Gaza. Which will give young men jobs rather than having to join foreign-funded militant groups to earn a living. | |
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| Trumps peace deals on 11:33 - Sep 30 with 378 views | bluejacko |
| Trumps peace deals on 11:14 - Sep 30 by Guthrum |
Depends upon its limits of operation and rules of engagement. The UN units on the Lebanese border are in an observation role only. They have no power (or the military strength) to impose upon either side.
Israel are never going to attack a peacekeeping force including American troops.
But the biggest thing will be if reconstruction and development money flows into Gaza. Which will give young men jobs rather than having to join foreign-funded militant groups to earn a living. |
Your right on Israel not attacking a ‘peace’ force but that won’t stop whatever Hamas hardliners that will still be about attacking one and provoking a reaction as they did on Oct 7th! | | | |
| Trumps peace deals on 11:50 - Sep 30 with 322 views | Guthrum |
| Trumps peace deals on 11:33 - Sep 30 by bluejacko |
Your right on Israel not attacking a ‘peace’ force but that won’t stop whatever Hamas hardliners that will still be about attacking one and provoking a reaction as they did on Oct 7th! |
Indeed. But hopefully reconstruction money and jobs will draw their teeth.
Hamas are not exactly a popular government. They are an authoritarian regime who haven't had an election since they came to power in a coup in 2007. They suppress any opposition and keep tight hold of the flow of patronage (largely Iranian money) in an environment with few jobs and opportunities.
Remove their teeth, provide other ways to make a living and much of their influence will evaporate.
I doubt the Gazan populace enjoys being pounded by Israel and if there was a peaceful, safe and economically satisfying alternative (subsidised by America, the West and Arab countries), I think most would take it. Tho there is the difficulty of people having grown up and lived under a certain propaganda environment. In that respect, it's interesting looking at Eastern Europe, where everyone "supported" the communist regimes, but leapt quite quickly when that was removed, only somewhat lapsing back into nostalgia when the hoped-for Capitalist prosperity faltered. | |
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| Trumps peace deals on 11:55 - Sep 30 with 305 views | DJR |
| Trumps peace deals on 11:01 - Sep 30 by Guthrum |
That's not what the public outline of the plan says. But then Netanyahu would come out with this kind of stuff. He's returning to face the fury of his hard-line backers (who want Gaza and the West Bank erased from the map) and may be forced from power as a result. |
I can see no reference in the very sketchy outline to the creation of a Palestinian state.
And to use a metaphor from a different religion, do you think that Netanyahu has suddenly had a Damascene conversion from the very strong views he expressed against a Palestine state at the UN only a few days ago, a view I believe he has always held?
As regards the presence of the IDF, there seems plenty of scope for their continued presence.
I'm off to football now, so won't be able to respond. [Post edited 30 Sep 11:57]
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| Trumps peace deals on 12:05 - Sep 30 with 277 views | Guthrum |
| Trumps peace deals on 11:55 - Sep 30 by DJR |
I can see no reference in the very sketchy outline to the creation of a Palestinian state.
And to use a metaphor from a different religion, do you think that Netanyahu has suddenly had a Damascene conversion from the very strong views he expressed against a Palestine state at the UN only a few days ago, a view I believe he has always held?
As regards the presence of the IDF, there seems plenty of scope for their continued presence.
I'm off to football now, so won't be able to respond. [Post edited 30 Sep 11:57]
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There's nothing about the creation of a Palestinian state*. That would be unacceptable to Israel. But what I've seen did mention a withdrawal of the IDF.
I don't think Netanyahu has had any kind of conversion at all, other than being leant on vey hard by Trump. He's probably still hoping that this doesn't come off at all and they can continue the war while protesting that they did everything they could. But not sure he's been given much choice.
This is, perhaps, the quid quo pro for helping out against Iran a few month ago.
I shall be at Bristol later on, looking forward to a good game and three points. Safe travels to you and all others coming across from the East.
* De facto as an international protectorate, rather than de jure. [Post edited 30 Sep 12:07]
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| Trumps peace deals on 13:12 - Sep 30 with 181 views | mutters |
From what I've scan read this morning, Israel are already saying that they won't recognise a two state solution.
Why would Hamas accept that now? Just to go back to being treated as second (or third) class citizens lorded over still by the IDF. Palestinian lives were already hard enough before this and now they have destroyed infrastructure, displaced people and a very bleak future.
When I saw the headlines I honestly had a bit of hope, but already Israel has pulled the rug out from under the feet by refusing to recognise Palestine at any point.
It's clear that Israel wants their hostages back and once they have them they will just restart the eradication process. |  |
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