| No smoke without fire: on 14:25 - Nov 12 with 964 views | thebooks |
| No smoke without fire: on 12:51 - Nov 12 by J2BLUE |
The far right are welcomed by some. Plenty of us genuinely fear a Reform government and would like the likes of Polanski and Corbyn to come out with serious achievable policies. Neither should be anywhere near power but they are probably needed as part of an anti Reform alliance. At least an unofficial alliance between voters.
Corbyn wasn't helped by the media but he was never a serious option anyway. Where is someone with some of these ideas in a fully costed (and reviewed as being realistic) manifesto who doesn't come with the baggage of Corbyn and Polanski?
Rightly or wrong, the majority of the country just doesn't seem to want what many on TWTD's left seem to want. |
What's Polanksi's "baggage"?
Don't disagree on Corbyn's suitability, as we're seeing play out with Your Party.
As the country has been offered what the "TWTD left" (comrades!) wants twice in the last 46 years, hard to say it's forever unpopular. |  | |  |
| No smoke without fire: on 18:34 - Nov 12 with 835 views | DJR |
This BTL comment from the Guardian made me laugh.
"Gonna take a lot of glue to put that Ming vase back together." |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 18:37 - Nov 12 with 825 views | DJR |
| No smoke without fire: on 14:25 - Nov 12 by thebooks |
What's Polanksi's "baggage"?
Don't disagree on Corbyn's suitability, as we're seeing play out with Your Party.
As the country has been offered what the "TWTD left" (comrades!) wants twice in the last 46 years, hard to say it's forever unpopular. |
The baggage is the right wing smears which are highlighted in the following article, some of which stray into antisemitism.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/nov/10/green-party-zack-polanski- [Post edited 12 Nov 18:38]
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| No smoke without fire: on 18:40 - Nov 12 with 822 views | DJR |
| No smoke without fire: on 12:51 - Nov 12 by J2BLUE |
The far right are welcomed by some. Plenty of us genuinely fear a Reform government and would like the likes of Polanski and Corbyn to come out with serious achievable policies. Neither should be anywhere near power but they are probably needed as part of an anti Reform alliance. At least an unofficial alliance between voters.
Corbyn wasn't helped by the media but he was never a serious option anyway. Where is someone with some of these ideas in a fully costed (and reviewed as being realistic) manifesto who doesn't come with the baggage of Corbyn and Polanski?
Rightly or wrong, the majority of the country just doesn't seem to want what many on TWTD's left seem to want. |
When I was growing up, the nationalisation of the public utilities was not left wing because it was supported by both the Tories and the Labour Party. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 18:47 - Nov 12 with 807 views | DJR |
There have been references in this thread to socialist utopia.
Given the state of the public finances, and the IFS's position that both parties weren't being honest about that state, socialist utopia for me would have involved reversing the Tory's NI cuts.
I called for this at the time but instead we ended up with the damaging employers' NI increases, which have been compounded by the downgrade to productivity and the effect of Trump tariffs. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 20:49 - Nov 12 with 747 views | CoachRob |
| No smoke without fire: on 18:47 - Nov 12 by DJR |
There have been references in this thread to socialist utopia.
Given the state of the public finances, and the IFS's position that both parties weren't being honest about that state, socialist utopia for me would have involved reversing the Tory's NI cuts.
I called for this at the time but instead we ended up with the damaging employers' NI increases, which have been compounded by the downgrade to productivity and the effect of Trump tariffs. |
I have a lot of time for your posts DJR, but this not something I can agree on. This is dogmatic nonsense from the same school of economics that expects people like me to take them seriously when they say we will still have a functioning economy at the point global temperatures make eukaryotic life almost impossible. I find this stuff disrespectful to the ten of thousands of scientists that realise how grave the situation is with our climate and biosphere. Swanners made the point about most people not understanding economics. If you think can explain how government finance works, great (it's very complicated), but regurgitating this nonsense that denigrates the seriousness of the climate and ecological crisis and claims we have to wait for some magic to happen with the economy is becoming rather silly.
In the real world we have increasing GHG's heating the planet, an enhanced hydrological cycle, upwelling and enhanced winds in Antarctica melting ice shelves and sheets, potential outgassing from the Southern Ocean, ocean conveyer disruption, habitat loss, deforestation, etc. Physics couldn't give a sh1t if you ideologically favour monetary policy over fiscal policy (IFS), it just tells us to get the fck on with it. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 21:27 - Nov 12 with 713 views | reusersfreekicks |
| No smoke without fire: on 12:35 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
But it's the lumping of Corbyn in with the "far left" as though he's the second coming of Lenin rather than the kind of bog standard social democrat that's common in most other countries that is problematic. We're seeing similar with Polanski now. Anyone proposing anything vaguely progressive and/or genuinely to the left of the centre gets demonised while the far right are welcomed into mainstream political discourse with open arms. |
Spot on.
The whole political spectrum.has moved rightwards |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:16 - Nov 12 with 672 views | lowhouseblue |
| No smoke without fire: on 12:35 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
But it's the lumping of Corbyn in with the "far left" as though he's the second coming of Lenin rather than the kind of bog standard social democrat that's common in most other countries that is problematic. We're seeing similar with Polanski now. Anyone proposing anything vaguely progressive and/or genuinely to the left of the centre gets demonised while the far right are welcomed into mainstream political discourse with open arms. |
neither corbyn, polanski, or anyone of that ilk, is capable of putting together a coalition of support that would put them in government. pretending otherwise is pure fantasy. they aren't capable of engaging with the majority of the electorate and they are toxic to far more of the electorate than they could ever attract. denying this is just pretending that black is white. i'm certain you don't care because claiming to be right matters far more to you than actually ever changing anything. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| No smoke without fire: on 22:20 - Nov 12 with 663 views | jasondozzell |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:16 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
neither corbyn, polanski, or anyone of that ilk, is capable of putting together a coalition of support that would put them in government. pretending otherwise is pure fantasy. they aren't capable of engaging with the majority of the electorate and they are toxic to far more of the electorate than they could ever attract. denying this is just pretending that black is white. i'm certain you don't care because claiming to be right matters far more to you than actually ever changing anything. |
Explain 2017 then. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:21 - Nov 12 with 659 views | lowhouseblue |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:20 - Nov 12 by jasondozzell |
Explain 2017 then. |
the tories won. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| No smoke without fire: on 22:29 - Nov 12 with 643 views | jasondozzell |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:21 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
the tories won. |
In a very competitive election with biggest Labour swing since 1945.
Making it clear that a win with a moderate social democratic stance is possible.
How do you explain that? | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:41 - Nov 12 with 621 views | lowhouseblue |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:29 - Nov 12 by jasondozzell |
In a very competitive election with biggest Labour swing since 1945.
Making it clear that a win with a moderate social democratic stance is possible.
How do you explain that? |
labour lost against the weakest / most self-destructive tory campaign in memory. 2 years later he gave the tories their biggest majority in a century.
those aren't my ideas of success but each to his own. but we've done this many times. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| No smoke without fire: on 22:43 - Nov 12 with 610 views | vapour_trail |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:16 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
neither corbyn, polanski, or anyone of that ilk, is capable of putting together a coalition of support that would put them in government. pretending otherwise is pure fantasy. they aren't capable of engaging with the majority of the electorate and they are toxic to far more of the electorate than they could ever attract. denying this is just pretending that black is white. i'm certain you don't care because claiming to be right matters far more to you than actually ever changing anything. |
I can only assume you were pissing yourself laughing as you typed out the final sentence. |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 23:02 - Nov 12 with 589 views | Herbivore |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:43 - Nov 12 by vapour_trail |
I can only assume you were pissing yourself laughing as you typed out the final sentence. |
The irony meter factory blew up. |  |
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| No smoke without fire: on 08:18 - Nov 13 with 443 views | MattinLondon |
| No smoke without fire: on 22:41 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
labour lost against the weakest / most self-destructive tory campaign in memory. 2 years later he gave the tories their biggest majority in a century.
those aren't my ideas of success but each to his own. but we've done this many times. |
No matter how anyone dresses it up, Corbyn failed. Yes, he was up against it from the off but it was obvious that he would never get into power, so what was the point. Electing him as leader was ridiculous. |  | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:40 - Nov 13 with 417 views | jasondozzell |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:18 - Nov 13 by MattinLondon |
No matter how anyone dresses it up, Corbyn failed. Yes, he was up against it from the off but it was obvious that he would never get into power, so what was the point. Electing him as leader was ridiculous. |
Total nonsense and that view is going to look more and more ridiculous as the current situation plays out.
It's not 1997 and the adults are back in the room routine no longer cuts it. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:08 - Nov 13 with 379 views | MattinLondon |
| No smoke without fire: on 08:40 - Nov 13 by jasondozzell |
Total nonsense and that view is going to look more and more ridiculous as the current situation plays out.
It's not 1997 and the adults are back in the room routine no longer cuts it. |
The situation today is irrelevant to Corbyn failing. Yes he dud better than expected but he still failed. If the Labour Party had chosen someone with more appeal (can’t remember who were the other contenders) they might well have won against May. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 10:15 - Nov 13 with 330 views | jasondozzell |
| No smoke without fire: on 09:08 - Nov 13 by MattinLondon |
The situation today is irrelevant to Corbyn failing. Yes he dud better than expected but he still failed. If the Labour Party had chosen someone with more appeal (can’t remember who were the other contenders) they might well have won against May. |
We're in the situation we are today precisely because of the centrist reaction to Corbyn!
Corbyn increased the membership to record levels.
Policies polled consistently highly with public.
Biggest swing to Labour since 1945.
And he did all that with a vitriolic press monstering him for years and his own party trying to destroy him.
Look at the polling numbers when the chicken coup happened. Now compare to Starmer.
But it was never about Corbyn. It was about stopping any kind of mild democratic socialism.
The Doom loop of the idea of sensible candidates ('Starmer can chair a meeting...') is essentially a symptom of centrists having a collective breakdown because they can't face being wrong. | | | |
| No smoke without fire: on 11:16 - Nov 13 with 288 views | MattinLondon |
| No smoke without fire: on 10:15 - Nov 13 by jasondozzell |
We're in the situation we are today precisely because of the centrist reaction to Corbyn!
Corbyn increased the membership to record levels.
Policies polled consistently highly with public.
Biggest swing to Labour since 1945.
And he did all that with a vitriolic press monstering him for years and his own party trying to destroy him.
Look at the polling numbers when the chicken coup happened. Now compare to Starmer.
But it was never about Corbyn. It was about stopping any kind of mild democratic socialism.
The Doom loop of the idea of sensible candidates ('Starmer can chair a meeting...') is essentially a symptom of centrists having a collective breakdown because they can't face being wrong. |
Biggest Labour swing since 1945 - and he lost.
It’s like over-celebrating an amazing goal, turning to the opposition to take the piss and then looking to the scoreboard to see that you’re losing 4-1 as opposed to 4-0. And then the final whistle blows. | | | |
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