| Insurance experts, your opinions please... 14:08 - Nov 14 with 1128 views | Bent_double |
I know there are a few on here who work/have worked in the insurance industry, would appreciate your opinions on the following please.
My property is on one corner of a 4-way road junction - one where an accident was just waiting to happen.
Well, one finally did a couple of months ago, late one Friday evening in September I heard 3 massive bangs outside, went to see what it was. Two cars had collided at the junction, with one car going on to hit a parked car opposite my property, then crashing into the wall around my property.
Luckily, it is quite a solid wall, but it's been damaged all the way along to the point of needing to be demolished and rebuilt - a process that also involves removing and re-installing the wrought-iron railings ontop of the wall. Not cheap!
So, the following Monday, I call the insurer of the car that hit my wall. Not our fault, goodbye - I was told.
Called the 2nd insurance company, they were a little better, took all my details and promised to contact me whenever a decision regarding liability had been agreed.
Two months later, I've called them several times, they're still waiting on a Police report, apparently, so still not timeframe or admission of guilt.
In the meantime, I've contacted my own insurance, send all details and quotes for the repair and they're ready to pay me (minus my excess, of course).
But I'm not happy of course, because neither my insurance company, or the broker I use, will give any guarantee about reclaimed the costs back from whichever of the 2 insured vehicles finally admits blame.
Subrogation, they call it. It may not be worth their time trying to claim a sum (<£10k), so will not even bother, leaving me with a claim against my insurance.
So I, as the innocent party, get to claim on my own insurance, and suffer the inevitable premium increases for the next few years, "because they can't be bothered"....doesn't seen right to me. Is it? Am I being badly advised?
I would like to get the wall rebuild now, rather than wait another 3-4 months - I can even pay myself without going through the insurance, but I shouldn't have to. Why don't the 2 companies involved just pay any 3rd party costs straightaway, then they can argue between themselves as much as they like?
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| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 14:55 - Nov 14 with 1029 views | badadski |
You have found the negative aspect of insurance especially proving negligence and recovery.
Simple answer is issuance companies don’t like paying out so if they can avoid admitting liability then they will, with no cctv, no neutral witnesses then it’s hard to apportion blame.
What is the estimates you have been getting for your wall repairs and what’s the excess ? Needless to say if a low amount, your insurer may try to recover it but beyond a constant calling the third party insurer in a hope that they will admit liability for their driver (doubtful unless dash cam footage, police persecution for wreckless driving etc) they won’t do much else - insurance companies very rarely threaten legal action to recover unless substantial losses and the legal fees and time spent chasing end up more than the recovery so you are left to stomach the claim.
Not want you want to hear but it’s harsh reality - at least you have insurance to claim against, even if it is your own which is a still a positive. When it comes to your renewal I wouldnt worry so much about any claim increases especially if you rarely claim and stay with the same insurer. They will look at loss ratio which is premium paid compared to claim pay out, length of time with them among other things and was it preventable or were you to blame like accidental damage. None of which is true for you so increase based on the claim would be negligible most likely. Just having to foot the excess is always the biggest bummer and reason why I always have no voluntary excess and pay higher premiums for the just incase. [Post edited 14 Nov 14:58]
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| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 15:56 - Nov 14 with 941 views | Bent_double |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 14:55 - Nov 14 by badadski |
You have found the negative aspect of insurance especially proving negligence and recovery.
Simple answer is issuance companies don’t like paying out so if they can avoid admitting liability then they will, with no cctv, no neutral witnesses then it’s hard to apportion blame.
What is the estimates you have been getting for your wall repairs and what’s the excess ? Needless to say if a low amount, your insurer may try to recover it but beyond a constant calling the third party insurer in a hope that they will admit liability for their driver (doubtful unless dash cam footage, police persecution for wreckless driving etc) they won’t do much else - insurance companies very rarely threaten legal action to recover unless substantial losses and the legal fees and time spent chasing end up more than the recovery so you are left to stomach the claim.
Not want you want to hear but it’s harsh reality - at least you have insurance to claim against, even if it is your own which is a still a positive. When it comes to your renewal I wouldnt worry so much about any claim increases especially if you rarely claim and stay with the same insurer. They will look at loss ratio which is premium paid compared to claim pay out, length of time with them among other things and was it preventable or were you to blame like accidental damage. None of which is true for you so increase based on the claim would be negligible most likely. Just having to foot the excess is always the biggest bummer and reason why I always have no voluntary excess and pay higher premiums for the just incase. [Post edited 14 Nov 14:58]
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Thanks for the reply.
It will cost around £6k to repair, my excess is £350, so I guess I just lose that if they decide not to chase the car insurers for the money.
Yeah, no cctv covering that area, but the car clearly hit my wall - thats the only thing that stopped it, and possibly prevented an injury to the occupants, as I have a basement, so a less-substancial wall would have seen the car ending up down there or buried in my house - a much more expensive repair.
The driver of one of the vehicles was taken away by Police on the night, possibly for failing a breathalizer test.
I have been with the same broker for a few years, not sure if its the same insurance company though, but hopefully what you say about the premiums turns out to be right. | |
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| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 16:13 - Nov 14 with 899 views | mellowblue |
Isn't it up to your insurer to chase for the money they will be forking out on the repair from the other side's insurer. Isn't that how it is supposed to work? In theory, hopefully, maybe. | | | |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 16:20 - Nov 14 with 878 views | SuperBobbyPetta |
They won’t guarantee recovery. If the police are involved they’ll most likely wait for the outcome of that to try and recover following the police investigation as that’ll be minimal effort for them.
If you want to get an idea of the uplift in your insurance try getting a quote from one of the aggregators with the claim in there and a reduced NCB. You can weigh that up against the cost of repairs for yourself | | | |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 16:28 - Nov 14 with 870 views | crouchendyachtclub |
Insurance companies are quite weird and archaic. They're can be very proactive about worming out of claims but outside of that they're not always great with money.
An acquaintance of mine was found guilty of using cash intended as premiums as working capital at his brokerage. Cost the insurers a few £m but they weren't bothered and did pursue it, his verdict was because the person who bought his business from him sued in a civil case instead. I have another friend who has spent his career in speciality insurance around various Lloyds brokers, the numbers bouncing between them are absolutely staggering and they're still doing work in a really backwards and manual way, doing about 3 hours of actual work followed by a long lunch and an afternoon on the course. | | | |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 17:19 - Nov 14 with 790 views | Bent_double |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 16:13 - Nov 14 by mellowblue |
Isn't it up to your insurer to chase for the money they will be forking out on the repair from the other side's insurer. Isn't that how it is supposed to work? In theory, hopefully, maybe. |
Well, you'd think so, wouldn't you!
But apparently not, if they don't think it's worth their time/effort, or that they won't win.
Probably not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things, so maybe not worth them, or me, worrying about it. | |
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| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 18:13 - Nov 14 with 702 views | waveneyblue |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 17:19 - Nov 14 by Bent_double |
Well, you'd think so, wouldn't you!
But apparently not, if they don't think it's worth their time/effort, or that they won't win.
Probably not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things, so maybe not worth them, or me, worrying about it. |
Have you got any legal expenses cover on your Home Insurance ?
If so, might be worth having a word with them.
If you've got it, it almost certainly won't be with the same insurer who covers the buildings - so they should be impartial |  | | |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 18:52 - Nov 14 with 668 views | Pendejo |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 14:55 - Nov 14 by badadski |
You have found the negative aspect of insurance especially proving negligence and recovery.
Simple answer is issuance companies don’t like paying out so if they can avoid admitting liability then they will, with no cctv, no neutral witnesses then it’s hard to apportion blame.
What is the estimates you have been getting for your wall repairs and what’s the excess ? Needless to say if a low amount, your insurer may try to recover it but beyond a constant calling the third party insurer in a hope that they will admit liability for their driver (doubtful unless dash cam footage, police persecution for wreckless driving etc) they won’t do much else - insurance companies very rarely threaten legal action to recover unless substantial losses and the legal fees and time spent chasing end up more than the recovery so you are left to stomach the claim.
Not want you want to hear but it’s harsh reality - at least you have insurance to claim against, even if it is your own which is a still a positive. When it comes to your renewal I wouldnt worry so much about any claim increases especially if you rarely claim and stay with the same insurer. They will look at loss ratio which is premium paid compared to claim pay out, length of time with them among other things and was it preventable or were you to blame like accidental damage. None of which is true for you so increase based on the claim would be negligible most likely. Just having to foot the excess is always the biggest bummer and reason why I always have no voluntary excess and pay higher premiums for the just incase. [Post edited 14 Nov 14:58]
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I used to review claims experience with a view to applying terms; our starting point was 3 claims in 2 years or less and first action was to impose higher excess.
However, my last underwriting duty was 27 years ago, and things definitely change |  |
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| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 19:21 - Nov 14 with 608 views | badadski |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 18:52 - Nov 14 by Pendejo |
I used to review claims experience with a view to applying terms; our starting point was 3 claims in 2 years or less and first action was to impose higher excess.
However, my last underwriting duty was 27 years ago, and things definitely change |
Policies I currently underwrite have a standard binder increase of 25% of premium if no more than 2 claims over 5k but less than 10k - but we still have facility at our own judgment to waive or lower based on events surrounding claim. I wouldn’t judge harshly on such as case but hopefully the amount is chunky enough for the recovery team to try and get back from any of the other policies.
Need any more info feel free to drop me a pm. Have 25 years in insurance experience, 5 years in household claims/loss adjusting, 16 years motor and 3 years property underwriting. Always happy to help out a fellow blue where I can. | | | |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 20:16 - Nov 14 with 551 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 18:13 - Nov 14 by waveneyblue |
Have you got any legal expenses cover on your Home Insurance ?
If so, might be worth having a word with them.
If you've got it, it almost certainly won't be with the same insurer who covers the buildings - so they should be impartial |
They will likely pursue it eventually, but will wait to see who ends up with liability between the cars etc. No point exposing yourself to costs until you know that. | | | |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 20:32 - Nov 14 with 536 views | Pinewoodblue |
Subrogation gives your insurer the right, should they wish to do so, to take action through the courts in your name to recovery their outlay. This doesn’t stop you from taking action yourself but you would be required to keep your insurers aware in advance.
If the Police decide to take action against either driver they will not release a Police report until the case has been dealt with in court and it is beyond appeal date. This could quite easily be six months after the incident.
Your claim is against the negligent party which may not be the driver of the car that struck your wall.
In your situation I would claim through insurance and get the repairs carried out. Frost can cause a damaged wall to become unsafe, depending of course on the degree of damage. |  |
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| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 21:32 - Nov 14 with 441 views | Bent_double |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 20:32 - Nov 14 by Pinewoodblue |
Subrogation gives your insurer the right, should they wish to do so, to take action through the courts in your name to recovery their outlay. This doesn’t stop you from taking action yourself but you would be required to keep your insurers aware in advance.
If the Police decide to take action against either driver they will not release a Police report until the case has been dealt with in court and it is beyond appeal date. This could quite easily be six months after the incident.
Your claim is against the negligent party which may not be the driver of the car that struck your wall.
In your situation I would claim through insurance and get the repairs carried out. Frost can cause a damaged wall to become unsafe, depending of course on the degree of damage. |
You're right, it was the driver of the other vehicle (not the one that hit my wall) who was arrested. Didn't realise it could take upto 6 months for a police report, wow.
Yes, really just want to get the wall rebuilt asap, not wait, don't want the problem to get worse. | |
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| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 21:59 - Nov 14 with 405 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Insurance experts, your opinions please... on 21:32 - Nov 14 by Bent_double |
You're right, it was the driver of the other vehicle (not the one that hit my wall) who was arrested. Didn't realise it could take upto 6 months for a police report, wow.
Yes, really just want to get the wall rebuilt asap, not wait, don't want the problem to get worse. |
If you are sure the driver who struck the wall is the innocent party do you havec any way of getting in contact with them. If you have vehicle details the DVLA, on payment of a fee will provide the owners details.
Insurers don’t go out of their way to invite a claim it is possible that the two motor insurers have already settled on liability.
One final thing it isn’t unheard of for a driver charged with drink driving to be free from liability for the collision. | |
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