| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? 18:00 - Jan 30 with 1647 views | SheffordBlue |
Was going to do this as a poll but would rather see some broader answers.
If we get a striker on a permanent we are probably looking at £10-20m and a 3-4 year deal as a minimum. What % improvement on our current strikers makes this worth doing for you?
E.g. If we can only get a 10% improvement on what we have with the money/available players then that's probably not going to be enough for the Prem so is it worth doing now?
So at what point does it become viable/worth it? |  |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 18:02 - Jan 30 with 1371 views | DarkBrandon |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 18:23 - Jan 30 with 1283 views | SheffordBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 18:02 - Jan 30 by DarkBrandon |
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Can you not be more specific ?! | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 18:41 - Jan 30 with 1204 views | OldFart71 |
I would rather say that any No, 9 coming in would need to be able to get us 10-12 goals between now and the end of the season. But I question whether that player is available. With the two new players now in place I would like to see both of them add a few goals to the team.
As we have seen tight matches can swing one way or the other based on chances created and taken.
I didn't see all the Sheffield Utd game but apparently we could have had one or two goals before they scored. That changes the whole dynamics of a game. Puts the other teams supporters on edge and can make the chasing team open more to counter attacks whereas getting in front whilst still needing to get other goals there's no need to leave yourself open. Like many fans it would be great to make that special signing but they will cost a very large amount . I am pleased we didn't go for Bamford as I don't see a player basically rejected by Leeds as someone I would want to take for another tilt at the Premier League. | | | |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 18:57 - Jan 30 with 1134 views | Illinoisblue |
Give SS to Wrexham and they give us Keiffer Moore. Run it back à la ‘24. |  |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 18:57 - Jan 30 with 1136 views | SheffordBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 18:41 - Jan 30 by OldFart71 |
I would rather say that any No, 9 coming in would need to be able to get us 10-12 goals between now and the end of the season. But I question whether that player is available. With the two new players now in place I would like to see both of them add a few goals to the team.
As we have seen tight matches can swing one way or the other based on chances created and taken.
I didn't see all the Sheffield Utd game but apparently we could have had one or two goals before they scored. That changes the whole dynamics of a game. Puts the other teams supporters on edge and can make the chasing team open more to counter attacks whereas getting in front whilst still needing to get other goals there's no need to leave yourself open. Like many fans it would be great to make that special signing but they will cost a very large amount . I am pleased we didn't go for Bamford as I don't see a player basically rejected by Leeds as someone I would want to take for another tilt at the Premier League. |
I'm pretty much where you are. Would be really easy to spend a whole lot of money without significantly improving things and finding someone much better on a deal that works for both us and the player is difficult.
Also a good chance that either Hirst/Azon/Akpom come good in the remainder of the season. Azon in particular has been unlucky as well as wasteful and the former can change even if the latter doesn't! | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:12 - Jan 30 with 982 views | Edmundo |
January window inflation + lack of quality "championship ready" strikers = not worth it |  |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:25 - Jan 30 with 943 views | FrimleyBlue |
We shouldn't have put ourselves in this position really. March time we knew delap was off, lots of time to sort a new 9 out, the azon thing was on, then off, then on without the obligation to buy so we clearly weren't overly confident on him.
3 'linked' summer strikers are in the top end of the champ scoring table, a couple of links were freebies etc too.
Dunno, we seem to have a summer issue when it comes to signing strikers.
We had hirst having to join in jan, then we had moore in jan, and now we're seeing the same. Then summer last year we were still trying to get broja and ended up left with hirst, al hamadi and moving delap central instead. |  |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:38 - Jan 30 with 923 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:25 - Jan 30 by FrimleyBlue |
We shouldn't have put ourselves in this position really. March time we knew delap was off, lots of time to sort a new 9 out, the azon thing was on, then off, then on without the obligation to buy so we clearly weren't overly confident on him.
3 'linked' summer strikers are in the top end of the champ scoring table, a couple of links were freebies etc too.
Dunno, we seem to have a summer issue when it comes to signing strikers.
We had hirst having to join in jan, then we had moore in jan, and now we're seeing the same. Then summer last year we were still trying to get broja and ended up left with hirst, al hamadi and moving delap central instead. |
This is nowhere close to an accurate recollection. It’s a bit revisionist to be honest.
Most people were excited about us signing Akpom and Azon. Sure, they haven’t clicked yet, but may well do so during the second half of the season. We know it takes time for players to ‘click’ with how KmK wants them to play. Clark and Philogene took time to ‘bed in’, with some injury interruptions to slow it up. Hutch took time too.
I’m not writing off any of the summer recruits yet. If KmK doesn’t see a number 9 as critical, I trust him. Sure, we’ve been out the lookout for one, but - as with any other new signing - they have to be a material improvement on what we already have. | | | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:44 - Jan 30 with 898 views | FrimleyBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:38 - Jan 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
This is nowhere close to an accurate recollection. It’s a bit revisionist to be honest.
Most people were excited about us signing Akpom and Azon. Sure, they haven’t clicked yet, but may well do so during the second half of the season. We know it takes time for players to ‘click’ with how KmK wants them to play. Clark and Philogene took time to ‘bed in’, with some injury interruptions to slow it up. Hutch took time too.
I’m not writing off any of the summer recruits yet. If KmK doesn’t see a number 9 as critical, I trust him. Sure, we’ve been out the lookout for one, but - as with any other new signing - they have to be a material improvement on what we already have. |
Akpom joined as a 10, some asked as the season progressed to see him as a 9, as the 10 wasn't working, but no he wasn't signed as a striker
Clearly KM does see a 9 as critical as we tried to get Bamford. | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:45 - Jan 30 with 897 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
On what metric are you basing a 10% improvement would not be worth it?
Currently we have 50 points from 28 games. With a 10% improvement in our main striker how much would that likely improve by? Maybe 55 points from 28 games? Maybe more? What does the 10% better metric really mean? Will they be 10% better at scoring or also at holding the ball up, creating chances for themselves, assisting, defending, etc, etc. 10% is a lot of a difference if it is across every metric. Think Marcus Stewart vs Pablo Counago.
To put it another way, what bracket of strikers are 10% better than Hirst and Azon? |  |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:50 - Jan 30 with 870 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:44 - Jan 30 by FrimleyBlue |
Akpom joined as a 10, some asked as the season progressed to see him as a 9, as the 10 wasn't working, but no he wasn't signed as a striker
Clearly KM does see a 9 as critical as we tried to get Bamford. |
KmK rarely buys players without an eye on versatility. Akpom has and can play no.9
You can’t conclude that KmK sees the position as critical. He’s said as much. It’s you and others who see it as critical.
Very much a case of you seeing it as ‘All grey things are elephants…’ | | | |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:51 - Jan 30 with 860 views | SheffordBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:45 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
On what metric are you basing a 10% improvement would not be worth it?
Currently we have 50 points from 28 games. With a 10% improvement in our main striker how much would that likely improve by? Maybe 55 points from 28 games? Maybe more? What does the 10% better metric really mean? Will they be 10% better at scoring or also at holding the ball up, creating chances for themselves, assisting, defending, etc, etc. 10% is a lot of a difference if it is across every metric. Think Marcus Stewart vs Pablo Counago.
To put it another way, what bracket of strikers are 10% better than Hirst and Azon? |
Agree it's a bit of an arbitrary/subjective approach - the general point I'm maybe trying to get at is we can possibly upgrade our starting striker 'a bit' but is a 'a bit' enough of a jump now to make it worth getting someone on an expensive, permanent deal. If we can do it as a loan then that's likely to be the best option in this window but that probably shrinks the pool of potential candidates even further.
Amongst quite a bit of the fanbase there seems to be a view that 'any improvement' on Hirst/Azon is worth spending on - far from convinced that's the case personally. [Post edited 30 Jan 20:52]
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:58 - Jan 30 with 831 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:51 - Jan 30 by SheffordBlue |
Agree it's a bit of an arbitrary/subjective approach - the general point I'm maybe trying to get at is we can possibly upgrade our starting striker 'a bit' but is a 'a bit' enough of a jump now to make it worth getting someone on an expensive, permanent deal. If we can do it as a loan then that's likely to be the best option in this window but that probably shrinks the pool of potential candidates even further.
Amongst quite a bit of the fanbase there seems to be a view that 'any improvement' on Hirst/Azon is worth spending on - far from convinced that's the case personally. [Post edited 30 Jan 20:52]
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Fair enough. I would just say a 10% improvement is actually a pretty big improvement. Imagine the difference winning 10% more challenges, getting 10% more shots on target, scoring 10% more of your shots on target, etc, etc would make.
I would also add that Hirst hasn't been as effective recently. If he could get back to his best or Azon can come in and find things falling for him (he has been unlucky so far), those could see good incremental improvements anyway.
I actually think the problem is that there are few players around who would make a decent improvement and most of them will be at clubs with no interest in selling them. Then you have a lot of clubs wanting those players too. It is about identifying one that we can realistically get over the line. Unfortunately we seem to have invested a lot on ones we generally can't. | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:58 - Jan 30 with 829 views | FrimleyBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:50 - Jan 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
KmK rarely buys players without an eye on versatility. Akpom has and can play no.9
You can’t conclude that KmK sees the position as critical. He’s said as much. It’s you and others who see it as critical.
Very much a case of you seeing it as ‘All grey things are elephants…’ |
lol, he's not gonna come out and say yes im desperate for a striker, Ashton better sort it out.
KM's love of a versatility is the reason we're about to sell someone to go score goals at another club because he doesn't suit our football. It's the same issue we had with Akpom and if KM was happy to play him as the 9, he'd have done it alot earlier and more than he did prior to injury.
Very much a case of you not believing the club can get things wrong. | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:01 - Jan 30 with 811 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:58 - Jan 30 by FrimleyBlue |
lol, he's not gonna come out and say yes im desperate for a striker, Ashton better sort it out.
KM's love of a versatility is the reason we're about to sell someone to go score goals at another club because he doesn't suit our football. It's the same issue we had with Akpom and if KM was happy to play him as the 9, he'd have done it alot earlier and more than he did prior to injury.
Very much a case of you not believing the club can get things wrong. |
You are confident we are about to sell Szmodics to go and score goals at Derby?
Let's see how that one plays out shall we? | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:03 - Jan 30 with 805 views | FrimleyBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:01 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
You are confident we are about to sell Szmodics to go and score goals at Derby?
Let's see how that one plays out shall we? |
It'll be as KM said to whoever pays what we ask for him.
Otherwise, imo he'll end up outside the 18 on matchdays. | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:05 - Jan 30 with 799 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 20:58 - Jan 30 by FrimleyBlue |
lol, he's not gonna come out and say yes im desperate for a striker, Ashton better sort it out.
KM's love of a versatility is the reason we're about to sell someone to go score goals at another club because he doesn't suit our football. It's the same issue we had with Akpom and if KM was happy to play him as the 9, he'd have done it alot earlier and more than he did prior to injury.
Very much a case of you not believing the club can get things wrong. |
Oh, I know the club can get things wrong, and have seen it many times. There’s not enough evidence that this is an example of ‘getting it wrong’. Time will tell, but I still say we’re not going to get a no.9 in unless it’s a material improvement on what we have available. That goes for any signing.
What you’re doing here is called projection - making your views, Keiran’s. | | | |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:07 - Jan 30 with 800 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:03 - Jan 30 by FrimleyBlue |
It'll be as KM said to whoever pays what we ask for him.
Otherwise, imo he'll end up outside the 18 on matchdays. |
Outside the 11 on matchdays? What are you on? You sound like those who were saying he was never going to play for the club again a month ago! Since returning from injury he has made 2 sub appearances scoring 1 goal and then started the last match. Why does he go from a fairly regular starter to no longer required on the bench? | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:10 - Jan 30 with 786 views | FrimleyBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:07 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Outside the 11 on matchdays? What are you on? You sound like those who were saying he was never going to play for the club again a month ago! Since returning from injury he has made 2 sub appearances scoring 1 goal and then started the last match. Why does he go from a fairly regular starter to no longer required on the bench? |
Because we wouldn't need him
Let's go forward 3 weeks
Cms
Azor
Neil
Taylor
Cajuste
So Nunez continues as the 10
Egeli
Mcateer
Burns
Clarke
Mehmeti
Nunez
Philogene
Akpom ( Obligation to buy, so not really going to drop him when he returns )
Where does Sammy fit into that on a matchday? | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:27 - Jan 30 with 752 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:10 - Jan 30 by FrimleyBlue |
Because we wouldn't need him
Let's go forward 3 weeks
Cms
Azor
Neil
Taylor
Cajuste
So Nunez continues as the 10
Egeli
Mcateer
Burns
Clarke
Mehmeti
Nunez
Philogene
Akpom ( Obligation to buy, so not really going to drop him when he returns )
Where does Sammy fit into that on a matchday? |
The obligation to buy makes no difference to whether he is picked. The team will be what McKenna decides is for the best. Unless we sell Szmodics, he is an already paid for player!
We will have injuries and suspensions. If Szmodics stays, he will be in more matchday squads than he isn't unless he is unavailable for some reason. | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:38 - Jan 30 with 722 views | FrimleyBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:27 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The obligation to buy makes no difference to whether he is picked. The team will be what McKenna decides is for the best. Unless we sell Szmodics, he is an already paid for player!
We will have injuries and suspensions. If Szmodics stays, he will be in more matchday squads than he isn't unless he is unavailable for some reason. |
disagree, if that was the plan, we wouldn't have signed Mehmeti.
As you say though we will see, but no i dont see him featuring in the squad much if he stays | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:41 - Jan 30 with 714 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:38 - Jan 30 by FrimleyBlue |
disagree, if that was the plan, we wouldn't have signed Mehmeti.
As you say though we will see, but no i dont see him featuring in the squad much if he stays |
He started ahead of Mehmeti last match. He will be on the bench if he doesn't start tomorrow (unless a transfer is arranged in the meantime or some other unavailability occurs). | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:49 - Jan 30 with 673 views | FrimleyBlue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:41 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
He started ahead of Mehmeti last match. He will be on the bench if he doesn't start tomorrow (unless a transfer is arranged in the meantime or some other unavailability occurs). |
He started ahead of Mehmeti last match.
I don't know if that's a serious point or if you're messing.
A player who'd only met the team 24 hours earlier didn't start a game......... I don't think KM has ever started a player who signed in the week of a game has he? so it's not really a shock that.
And yes he will be on the bench, as Akpom, Nunez, Philogene are all injured and unavailable. He may even start if KM decides Mehmeti isn't ready to start yet, but i'd be surprised.
Like i said when i wrote the list... in about 3 weeks time [Post edited 30 Jan 21:50]
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:59 - Jan 30 with 638 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:49 - Jan 30 by FrimleyBlue |
He started ahead of Mehmeti last match.
I don't know if that's a serious point or if you're messing.
A player who'd only met the team 24 hours earlier didn't start a game......... I don't think KM has ever started a player who signed in the week of a game has he? so it's not really a shock that.
And yes he will be on the bench, as Akpom, Nunez, Philogene are all injured and unavailable. He may even start if KM decides Mehmeti isn't ready to start yet, but i'd be surprised.
Like i said when i wrote the list... in about 3 weeks time [Post edited 30 Jan 21:50]
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Like I said, in about 3 weeks, unless he is unavailable (which includes if he is sold), he will be in our squad. We will still have injuries and unavailabilities. I doubt Philogene will be back in 3 weeks (although I hope he will be), I am not convinced Akpom will be ahead of Szmodics. Nunez, if fit, will be. I doubt McAteer makes the bench ahead of Szmodics with Walle Egeli and Burns fit. He will likely drop out when Nunez comes in (unless one of Walle Egeli or Burns is unavailable). When Philogene is fit, if Nunez, Clarke and Mehmeti are all available too, in that instance Szmodics may miss out on the squad. That isn't going to be as soon as 3 weeks, I doubt. | |
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| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 23:39 - Jan 30 with 509 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When is a deal for a new 9 not worth it? on 21:59 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Like I said, in about 3 weeks, unless he is unavailable (which includes if he is sold), he will be in our squad. We will still have injuries and unavailabilities. I doubt Philogene will be back in 3 weeks (although I hope he will be), I am not convinced Akpom will be ahead of Szmodics. Nunez, if fit, will be. I doubt McAteer makes the bench ahead of Szmodics with Walle Egeli and Burns fit. He will likely drop out when Nunez comes in (unless one of Walle Egeli or Burns is unavailable). When Philogene is fit, if Nunez, Clarke and Mehmeti are all available too, in that instance Szmodics may miss out on the squad. That isn't going to be as soon as 3 weeks, I doubt. |
” I doubt Philogene will be back in 3 weeks”
From the presser :
”Timescale on Philogene and Marcelino, one could be back Tuesday, but both definitely back for Wrexham in the league.”
That only 2 weeks until both are back. | | | |
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