| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" 17:03 - Feb 17 with 4535 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Not sure this has already been posted, but perfectly played by the Sky News reporter.
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 14:22 - Feb 18 with 678 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 14:10 - Feb 18 by nrb1985 |
Could have guessed it was the Guardian! No idea why I asked tbh.
There is absolutely no workings shown for how they arrived at that 4bn figure. Nor any reputable source like an accountancy firm quoted etc.
They say in the article he pays 110m uk tax pa. Those figures usually include corporation tax which we know is now 70m. So he pays, for arguments sake, 40m in personal tax.
So yes, they are correct, assuming he lives another 100 years he will indeed save 4bn in UK taxes… [Post edited 18 Feb 14:20]
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There are other sources too. The Times (or Sun Times can’t remember) was also one of the early outlets involved. The estimates included him and two of his exec team who all relocated. £4bn is the upper limit estimate that could be reached over time. There’s a bit more background here, but whether it’s £1BN or £4BN is probably not important - https://www.londonbusinessinsi
The bottom line is that he now avoids paying tax in the UK. Some may say that now precludes him from preaching to others. His company operations in the UK are still subject to tax of course, as you said earlier. |  |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 14:23 - Feb 18 with 674 views | Blueschev |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 13:31 - Feb 18 by nrb1985 |
Except they are thanks to him aren't they as he founded the company and therefore those tax contributions wouldn't exist if it wasn't for old racist Jim.
Think we're a getting a bit off topic here. My point was simply, he does pay a lot of UK tax and suggestions he doesn't don't do your argument (and mine, as I agree what he said was deplorable) any favours. |
He didn't pay the corporation tax himself, the company he owns shares in did. He was then handsomely rewarded with a huge dividend on their profits. Why should he be able to avoid paying tax on this vast sum of money? |  | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 14:45 - Feb 18 with 619 views | eireblue |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 13:01 - Feb 18 by Radlett_blue |
Please show me a super rich human who doesn't avoid tax.
Yes, I know once they start talking politics, they are seen as fair game. |
https://www.investopedia.com/w |  | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 14:49 - Feb 18 with 601 views | iamatractorboy |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 12:49 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
How well is that working? Pot holes everywhere, you can see a Doctor? Kitchens failing more often than not and still open just told to improve. Whilst all those things are supposed to work, do they? Do they really? |
Come on, we're all waiting for your magical solution. I'm all ears. Genuinely! |  | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 15:09 - Feb 18 with 554 views | nrb1985 |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 14:22 - Feb 18 by Swansea_Blue |
There are other sources too. The Times (or Sun Times can’t remember) was also one of the early outlets involved. The estimates included him and two of his exec team who all relocated. £4bn is the upper limit estimate that could be reached over time. There’s a bit more background here, but whether it’s £1BN or £4BN is probably not important - https://www.londonbusinessinsi
The bottom line is that he now avoids paying tax in the UK. Some may say that now precludes him from preaching to others. His company operations in the UK are still subject to tax of course, as you said earlier. |
Thanks - so they are the upper bound of estimates for his entire exec team then I’d guess which is a bit different to how the guardian presented things but there we are.
To your second point, first and foremost the thing that precludes him from preaching to others is that fact that what he said was obviously false and racist! | | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 15:21 - Feb 18 with 522 views | bluewein |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 11:44 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
Along with all on benefits, cash in hand workers, those who buy knocked off goods. Why are you so keen to pay tax? It is theft with threat of violence. |
Welcome back Paz. It's been a while... |  |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 15:57 - Feb 18 with 464 views | Guthrum |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 12:24 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
Or is the only system you know and better to stick to what you've been told is good for you. We won't agree on this particular area. But that is what makes the world go round |
I've looked into many systems over the years. All of them are vulnerable to human greed for wealth and power messing things up.
Socialism/Communism/Anarchism promise much, but require putting far more into the communal pot than our present system.
Individualism simply makes everything more expensive, as all services and protections need to be purchased individually, with no bulk discount - and are no more guaranteed to function efficiently (just look at delivery from privatised services currently). No safety nets, either. |  |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:00 - Feb 18 with 451 views | nrb1985 |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 14:23 - Feb 18 by Blueschev |
He didn't pay the corporation tax himself, the company he owns shares in did. He was then handsomely rewarded with a huge dividend on their profits. Why should he be able to avoid paying tax on this vast sum of money? |
"Why should he be able to avoid paying tax on this vast sum of money?"
The same reason anybody is allowed to move anywhere for their own financial gain.
Thankfully we live in a largely free world where people and capital can flow reasonably freely and I think the UK has been, for the most part, a large beneficiary of that.
To the point of this thread though and what Swansea said, if you do choose that path however, then you come across as a bit of t1t if you lecture the country you no longer live in. Not to mention, as we've all agreed, what he said is morally reprehensible. | | | |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:07 - Feb 18 with 443 views | bartyg |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:00 - Feb 18 by nrb1985 |
"Why should he be able to avoid paying tax on this vast sum of money?"
The same reason anybody is allowed to move anywhere for their own financial gain.
Thankfully we live in a largely free world where people and capital can flow reasonably freely and I think the UK has been, for the most part, a large beneficiary of that.
To the point of this thread though and what Swansea said, if you do choose that path however, then you come across as a bit of t1t if you lecture the country you no longer live in. Not to mention, as we've all agreed, what he said is morally reprehensible. |
It's not widely available to the working class, is it?
I note you haven't responded to either of my previous posts. |  | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:10 - Feb 18 with 430 views | Blueschev |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:00 - Feb 18 by nrb1985 |
"Why should he be able to avoid paying tax on this vast sum of money?"
The same reason anybody is allowed to move anywhere for their own financial gain.
Thankfully we live in a largely free world where people and capital can flow reasonably freely and I think the UK has been, for the most part, a large beneficiary of that.
To the point of this thread though and what Swansea said, if you do choose that path however, then you come across as a bit of t1t if you lecture the country you no longer live in. Not to mention, as we've all agreed, what he said is morally reprehensible. |
It has nothing to do with freedom, it's a significant loophole only available to the super rich. You should pay tax in the country where your earnings are made, regardless of where you live. That's not an infringement of liberty. | | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:14 - Feb 18 with 413 views | nrb1985 |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:07 - Feb 18 by bartyg |
It's not widely available to the working class, is it?
I note you haven't responded to either of my previous posts. |
I haven't responded because I disagreed with your original premise. Therefore it would seem folly to continue debating based on something which I didn't accept as correct in from the outset. Not sure that would be a productive use of either of our time.
Re it being available to the working class - whether something is openly available to the "working class" as you put it, shouldn't be a determinant in whether something is available, allowed or otherwise. By that logic you'd presumably like to close all high end restaurants, all BMW dealerships etc.
But to push back on that a little, plenty of people in what you might call "normal" jobs are currently re locating to the UAE for example. It's not all Hedge Fund managers and ex footballers who are moving there atm. I know a couple who just moved from Bury in fact - he's a PE teacher and she's a Nanny. [Post edited 18 Feb 16:19]
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:18 - Feb 18 with 397 views | nrb1985 |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:10 - Feb 18 by Blueschev |
It has nothing to do with freedom, it's a significant loophole only available to the super rich. You should pay tax in the country where your earnings are made, regardless of where you live. That's not an infringement of liberty. |
As we have discussed, INEOS pays a lot of tax in the UK and their profits and their retained earnings are presumably what pays Jim in the form of dividends etc.
Lots of country's have an exit tax, I don't know why the UK decided against it at the last budget but presumably they decided it would bring in less money than leaving things as the status quo.
I would be in favour of an exit tax but the fact there isn't one, I don't blame on the person who decides to relocate. I do however, as I've mentioned, think that you look a bit of cnt if you've left the country to avoid tax and then want to lecture said country on its immigration policy. | | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:34 - Feb 18 with 359 views | Radlett_blue |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:10 - Feb 18 by Blueschev |
It has nothing to do with freedom, it's a significant loophole only available to the super rich. You should pay tax in the country where your earnings are made, regardless of where you live. That's not an infringement of liberty. |
Ratcliffe paid around £110m in UK personal tax in 2017-18. Maybe he feels he's paid enough?
No one I know is in favour of reducing personal tax for the rich, but it's unsurprising that Ratcliffe, like many of the super rich, has relocated.
It doesn't mean he isn't entitled to have a view on immigration. |  |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:40 - Feb 18 with 353 views | Tambu |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:34 - Feb 18 by Radlett_blue |
Ratcliffe paid around £110m in UK personal tax in 2017-18. Maybe he feels he's paid enough?
No one I know is in favour of reducing personal tax for the rich, but it's unsurprising that Ratcliffe, like many of the super rich, has relocated.
It doesn't mean he isn't entitled to have a view on immigration. |
It's weird, there appear to be people who actually want to pay tax. Good luck to those. Or they say it to present some virtuous front that they do it for the greater good, but deep down resent every penny they are diminished by. I personally have never met anyone who said, yippee it's tax return time I can't wait to part with what I earned. |  | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:45 - Feb 18 with 334 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:34 - Feb 18 by Radlett_blue |
Ratcliffe paid around £110m in UK personal tax in 2017-18. Maybe he feels he's paid enough?
No one I know is in favour of reducing personal tax for the rich, but it's unsurprising that Ratcliffe, like many of the super rich, has relocated.
It doesn't mean he isn't entitled to have a view on immigration. |
The word 'colonisation' or 'being colonised' sits along side words like 'hordes' or 'swarm' when discussion immigration.
Of course he is entitled to have a view on immigration, but that doesn't mean he's entitled to lie about it and use false figures. This is especially true when a major shareholder of a football club with an estimated 1.1b fans worldwide and an estimated popularity figure in the UK of 29%.
That's quite the audience that you are using to sell a lie about immigration. | |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:48 - Feb 18 with 330 views | Radlett_blue |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:40 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
It's weird, there appear to be people who actually want to pay tax. Good luck to those. Or they say it to present some virtuous front that they do it for the greater good, but deep down resent every penny they are diminished by. I personally have never met anyone who said, yippee it's tax return time I can't wait to part with what I earned. |
I'm sure they don't particularly like it, but some British entrepreneurs are loyal to their country & more than happy to pay their share of tax & even wear it as a badge of honour. Alan sugar (hated on here by some) recently paid HMRC £186m, stemming from a £390m dividend from his business empire. | |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:52 - Feb 18 with 306 views | J2BLUE |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:40 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
It's weird, there appear to be people who actually want to pay tax. Good luck to those. Or they say it to present some virtuous front that they do it for the greater good, but deep down resent every penny they are diminished by. I personally have never met anyone who said, yippee it's tax return time I can't wait to part with what I earned. |
I don't want to pay tax. Who would want to? But it is needed to pay for all sorts of things which has been pointed out to you repeatedly.
Do you resent having to pay your water, gas and electric bills? Or do you think it's fair enough as you use those things? It's the same for the country. There are bills. If you want to live here you pay a share of your earnings as tax.
You clearly haven't thought this through at all. |  |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:53 - Feb 18 with 304 views | noggin |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:40 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
It's weird, there appear to be people who actually want to pay tax. Good luck to those. Or they say it to present some virtuous front that they do it for the greater good, but deep down resent every penny they are diminished by. I personally have never met anyone who said, yippee it's tax return time I can't wait to part with what I earned. |
If I was worth billions, I honestly think I'd be happy to pay 10s of millions in tax.
Obviously, someone earning a few tens of thousands would rather keep their hard earned money. |  |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:01 - Feb 18 with 278 views | Tambu |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 16:52 - Feb 18 by J2BLUE |
I don't want to pay tax. Who would want to? But it is needed to pay for all sorts of things which has been pointed out to you repeatedly.
Do you resent having to pay your water, gas and electric bills? Or do you think it's fair enough as you use those things? It's the same for the country. There are bills. If you want to live here you pay a share of your earnings as tax.
You clearly haven't thought this through at all. |
Paying for services is not tax. You are conflating the two. Of course I pay bills. If you don't pay for items that you are in receipt of that is theft. That isn't a good thing. Cue your well tax pays for roads etc. Yes, road tax, petrol tax, tax on the money you earned to pay those bills. Water gas and electric aren't tax bills.
As for the country's bills, you are aware of how much is squandered and pocketed by the very people demanding the tax? But if you are OK with that, carry on. | | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:07 - Feb 18 with 259 views | noggin |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:01 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
Paying for services is not tax. You are conflating the two. Of course I pay bills. If you don't pay for items that you are in receipt of that is theft. That isn't a good thing. Cue your well tax pays for roads etc. Yes, road tax, petrol tax, tax on the money you earned to pay those bills. Water gas and electric aren't tax bills.
As for the country's bills, you are aware of how much is squandered and pocketed by the very people demanding the tax? But if you are OK with that, carry on. |
"As for the country's bills, you are aware of how much is squandered and pocketed by the very people demanding the tax? But if you are OK with that, carry on."
That's a completely different argument. JR would be in a better position than me and you to stop such corruption. Actually that says it all. | |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:08 - Feb 18 with 252 views | J2BLUE |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:01 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
Paying for services is not tax. You are conflating the two. Of course I pay bills. If you don't pay for items that you are in receipt of that is theft. That isn't a good thing. Cue your well tax pays for roads etc. Yes, road tax, petrol tax, tax on the money you earned to pay those bills. Water gas and electric aren't tax bills.
As for the country's bills, you are aware of how much is squandered and pocketed by the very people demanding the tax? But if you are OK with that, carry on. |
Your taxes are used to pay for teachers, military, police, healthcare, firefighters and much more. All services.
It's like arguing with a 3 year old. You've clearly fallen down some conspiracy rabbit hole and have lost the basic ability to think. It's really not that difficult is it? If you want to argue that there should be a sensible review of budgets then great, i'm with you, but just complaining and refusing to see what we get for the money is very childish. | |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:13 - Feb 18 with 237 views | Tambu |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:08 - Feb 18 by J2BLUE |
Your taxes are used to pay for teachers, military, police, healthcare, firefighters and much more. All services.
It's like arguing with a 3 year old. You've clearly fallen down some conspiracy rabbit hole and have lost the basic ability to think. It's really not that difficult is it? If you want to argue that there should be a sensible review of budgets then great, i'm with you, but just complaining and refusing to see what we get for the money is very childish. |
Thank you again for yet another straw man and ad hominem. | | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:19 - Feb 18 with 222 views | noggin |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:13 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
Thank you again for yet another straw man and ad hominem. |
It might help if you explained yourself with some evidence. | |
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| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:23 - Feb 18 with 203 views | Tambu |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:19 - Feb 18 by noggin |
It might help if you explained yourself with some evidence. |
Evidence for what the gentleman's last post was most rhetorical in nature. What evidence was required to answer a non question? I need evidence to justify my thoughts? How peculiar. | | | |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:25 - Feb 18 with 191 views | J2BLUE |
| Jim Ratcliffe "UK Tax System Refugee" on 17:13 - Feb 18 by Tambu |
Thank you again for yet another straw man and ad hominem. |
If your ideas are so good why not tell us what they are? Why do a small group of you need to go to Mexico and talk about it? I'm sure people would love to hear your ideas if they are so good. | |
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