| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump 21:26 - Mar 2 with 1268 views | StokieBlue |
"The US attacked Iran “pre-emptively” on Saturday to protect US forces from retaliation after learning that Israel was going to strike, Marco Rubio told reporters on Monday.
The US secretary of state said: “There absolutely was an imminent threat. And the imminent threat was, that we knew that if Iran was attacked, and we believed that they would be attacked, that they would immediately come after us. And we were not going to sit there and absorb a blow before we responded.” [1]
That would seen to go against the narrative Trump has been putting out for days.
SB
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/wo |  | | |  |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:30 - Mar 2 with 1219 views | groovyASH |
Trumps own page changes every hour, you can't expect anyone else to be on the same page as him when he isn't even on his own same page. |  |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:34 - Mar 2 with 1187 views | Guthrum |
Rubio is talking to an international audience, Trump his domestic one.
None of these explanations particularly hold water, anyway. But they can hardly come out and say "We just wanted to thump the Iranians because we've hated them for nearly 50 years". |  |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:37 - Mar 2 with 1165 views | StokieBlue |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:34 - Mar 2 by Guthrum |
Rubio is talking to an international audience, Trump his domestic one.
None of these explanations particularly hold water, anyway. But they can hardly come out and say "We just wanted to thump the Iranians because we've hated them for nearly 50 years". |
Not sure that "we attacked because we found out Israel were going to attack" plays as well to the international audiences as you think.
SB | | | |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:38 - Mar 2 with 1147 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:34 - Mar 2 by Guthrum |
Rubio is talking to an international audience, Trump his domestic one.
None of these explanations particularly hold water, anyway. But they can hardly come out and say "We just wanted to thump the Iranians because we've hated them for nearly 50 years". |
And frankly, who gives a damn if (and it's a big if) the regime falls, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis lose their funding and decent Iranian people can lead a peaceful and democratic existence? |  |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:43 - Mar 2 with 1112 views | Guthrum |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:37 - Mar 2 by StokieBlue |
Not sure that "we attacked because we found out Israel were going to attack" plays as well to the international audiences as you think.
SB |
I don't think it does. But then they have limited understanding of and don't really care about international opinion.
Unless it's lauding Donald Trump or there's a lucrative deal involved. | |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:53 - Mar 2 with 1046 views | Guthrum |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:38 - Mar 2 by GlasgowBlue |
And frankly, who gives a damn if (and it's a big if) the regime falls, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis lose their funding and decent Iranian people can lead a peaceful and democratic existence? |
If it happens, there would be ramifications beyond that: Russia losing a significant drone supplier, China losing another source of oil, power structures shifting in the Middle East as the main counter to Saudi influence disappears.
I wouldn't shed any tears for the fall of the Ayatollas and the IRGC - brutal, repressive, troublemaking. But the effect of the ripples is uncertain. | |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:55 - Mar 2 with 1020 views | bournemouthblue |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:38 - Mar 2 by GlasgowBlue |
And frankly, who gives a damn if (and it's a big if) the regime falls, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis lose their funding and decent Iranian people can lead a peaceful and democratic existence? |
On the flip side, the people who fill the power vacuum aren't always better
In the case of Iraq, Syria and Libya for example, ISIS emerged
In Afghanistan, the Taliban came back! |  |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 22:13 - Mar 2 with 945 views | TractorWood |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:37 - Mar 2 by StokieBlue |
Not sure that "we attacked because we found out Israel were going to attack" plays as well to the international audiences as you think.
SB |
It seemed to be a self fulfilling prophecy. Trump mobilised to the region and escalated narrative and then took him out with some local intelligence.
Fwiw I think this will be over soon. Iran have limited ability to destabilise the region in the medium term. They are dysfunctional and poorly organised in terms of infrastructure but unfortunately have a few proxies. |  |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 22:14 - Mar 2 with 938 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:53 - Mar 2 by Guthrum |
If it happens, there would be ramifications beyond that: Russia losing a significant drone supplier, China losing another source of oil, power structures shifting in the Middle East as the main counter to Saudi influence disappears.
I wouldn't shed any tears for the fall of the Ayatollas and the IRGC - brutal, repressive, troublemaking. But the effect of the ripples is uncertain. |
Plus the more fundamental point that international law shouldn’t be ignored just because you think someone deserves it. There are potentially large ramifications there too. |  |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 22:17 - Mar 2 with 914 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:38 - Mar 2 by GlasgowBlue |
And frankly, who gives a damn if (and it's a big if) the regime falls, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis lose their funding and decent Iranian people can lead a peaceful and democratic existence? |
Was this your thinking on innocent Gazans as long as some evil Hamas types got wasted too? You're seriously losing the plot here GB in being a Trump/Nethanyahoo fanboy. Not sure the parents of those school kids will be following your logic.
And if the regime doesn't fall will you just console yourself with the fact they gave it a good shot? |  |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 08:16 - Mar 3 with 702 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:30 - Mar 2 by groovyASH |
Trumps own page changes every hour, you can't expect anyone else to be on the same page as him when he isn't even on his own same page. |
Meanwhile J D Vance doesn’t seem to even have a copy of the book. |  |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 08:26 - Mar 3 with 669 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:38 - Mar 2 by GlasgowBlue |
And frankly, who gives a damn if (and it's a big if) the regime falls, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis lose their funding and decent Iranian people can lead a peaceful and democratic existence? |
Somewhere in Palestine, Iran, Yemen and Lebanon there are probably some idiots saying the same thing about the countries ruled by "the great Satan".
You'll never see a world at peace with an attitude like yours. |  | | |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 08:38 - Mar 3 with 644 views | DJR |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 22:14 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Plus the more fundamental point that international law shouldn’t be ignored just because you think someone deserves it. There are potentially large ramifications there too. |
Yes, we've reached the stage where two of the three major powers have completely given up on international law.
Putting it another way, the international rules-based order, that the West used to trumpet, now lies in ruins with who knows what consequences.
At least George Dubya tried to justify the Iraq war on the basis of weapons of mass destruction.
And it has even emerged that the current conflict took place because Netanyahu didn't want a deal, and the US thought it had no option to join in if Israel were attacking. [Post edited 3 Mar 8:39]
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 08:48 - Mar 3 with 607 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 08:38 - Mar 3 by DJR |
Yes, we've reached the stage where two of the three major powers have completely given up on international law.
Putting it another way, the international rules-based order, that the West used to trumpet, now lies in ruins with who knows what consequences.
At least George Dubya tried to justify the Iraq war on the basis of weapons of mass destruction.
And it has even emerged that the current conflict took place because Netanyahu didn't want a deal, and the US thought it had no option to join in if Israel were attacking. [Post edited 3 Mar 8:39]
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The "rules-based international order" has always meant "a world order by our rules, not international law" - the conflicts of the last couple of years are very much a demonstration of the former and a collapse of the latter. | | | |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 09:00 - Mar 3 with 578 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 21:53 - Mar 2 by Guthrum |
If it happens, there would be ramifications beyond that: Russia losing a significant drone supplier, China losing another source of oil, power structures shifting in the Middle East as the main counter to Saudi influence disappears.
I wouldn't shed any tears for the fall of the Ayatollas and the IRGC - brutal, repressive, troublemaking. But the effect of the ripples is uncertain. |
China have recently diversified their oil and gas suppliers, and have very little invested in Iran. It’s thought they deemed Iran too erratic a partner so there should be few ramifications there.
I don’t think the regime will fall from air power alone, but if it were to happen there’s more chance of an end to the horrendous situation in Yemen. At least the Houthi’s without Iranian intelligence and arms may no longer control food and aid into the country by sea. |  | | |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 09:04 - Mar 3 with 544 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 08:38 - Mar 3 by DJR |
Yes, we've reached the stage where two of the three major powers have completely given up on international law.
Putting it another way, the international rules-based order, that the West used to trumpet, now lies in ruins with who knows what consequences.
At least George Dubya tried to justify the Iraq war on the basis of weapons of mass destruction.
And it has even emerged that the current conflict took place because Netanyahu didn't want a deal, and the US thought it had no option to join in if Israel were attacking. [Post edited 3 Mar 8:39]
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Secretary of war maintains US didn’t start it but will finish it.
This is copied from The Economist
▸ Donald Trump vowed retribution for a drone attack on the American embassy in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia’s capital, which caused a fire and structural damage. Earlier he suggested that war with Iran would last “four to five weeks”. Meanwhile Marco Rubio, America’s secretary of state, said his country had been forced to strike Iran because it knew Israel planned to attack and suspected Iran would retaliate by targeting American forces. | |
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:05 - Mar 3 with 430 views | DJR |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 09:00 - Mar 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
China have recently diversified their oil and gas suppliers, and have very little invested in Iran. It’s thought they deemed Iran too erratic a partner so there should be few ramifications there.
I don’t think the regime will fall from air power alone, but if it were to happen there’s more chance of an end to the horrendous situation in Yemen. At least the Houthi’s without Iranian intelligence and arms may no longer control food and aid into the country by sea. |
Interestingly, the Saudis have recently turned on the UAE when it comes to Yemen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
Yemen is complicated. [Post edited 3 Mar 11:07]
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| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:16 - Mar 3 with 396 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:05 - Mar 3 by DJR |
Interestingly, the Saudis have recently turned on the UAE when it comes to Yemen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
Yemen is complicated. [Post edited 3 Mar 11:07]
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It’s very complicated with a lot of competing factions and interests. But the most pressing problem is the 14m people going hungry, and the Houthi’s control the most important stretches of coast (and capital) and have weaponised food and aid.
Hard to see a functioning state any time soon, but I imagine Saudi and the Gulf states will turn their attentions elsewhere now! | | | |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:23 - Mar 3 with 385 views | DJR |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:16 - Mar 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s very complicated with a lot of competing factions and interests. But the most pressing problem is the 14m people going hungry, and the Houthi’s control the most important stretches of coast (and capital) and have weaponised food and aid.
Hard to see a functioning state any time soon, but I imagine Saudi and the Gulf states will turn their attentions elsewhere now! |
This suggests that no party to the conflict comes out of it well.
https://www.hrw.org/world-repo | | | |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:38 - Mar 3 with 346 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:23 - Mar 3 by DJR |
This suggests that no party to the conflict comes out of it well.
https://www.hrw.org/world-repo |
Indeed, I was merely making the point the collapse of the Houthi’s could alleviate the catastrophiv ongoing famine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
And-
Few notice the Houthis’ disdain for humanity at home. After a decade of war, the un reckons that the humanitarian crisis in Yemen is one of the world’s worst. Over half of its 33m people need aid to survive, many of them under Houthi control in the north-west. But across their realm the Houthis hinder aid flows. They insist that the un uses the Houthis’ own list of beneficiaries and lets the Houthis oversee distribution. They have barred access to international aid workers. They tax shipments, sell aid and charge customs fees at checkpoints. In sum, they treat the aid programme worth billions of dollars as a cash cow. “As in Gaza, the risk of famine is man-made,” says a former un official. “They use aid as a weapon.” | | | |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:44 - Mar 3 with 322 views | DJR |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 11:38 - Mar 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Indeed, I was merely making the point the collapse of the Houthi’s could alleviate the catastrophiv ongoing famine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
And-
Few notice the Houthis’ disdain for humanity at home. After a decade of war, the un reckons that the humanitarian crisis in Yemen is one of the world’s worst. Over half of its 33m people need aid to survive, many of them under Houthi control in the north-west. But across their realm the Houthis hinder aid flows. They insist that the un uses the Houthis’ own list of beneficiaries and lets the Houthis oversee distribution. They have barred access to international aid workers. They tax shipments, sell aid and charge customs fees at checkpoints. In sum, they treat the aid programme worth billions of dollars as a cash cow. “As in Gaza, the risk of famine is man-made,” says a former un official. “They use aid as a weapon.” |
I'm not holding my breath but that is shocking. | | | |
| Rubio doesn't seem to be on the same page as Trump on 13:01 - Mar 3 with 239 views | DJR |
I have it on good authority that Kier Starmer has been on the phone to what remains of the Iranian government asking them to hold fire.
He also stressed that we will need a few days after the decision is made in order to get the destroyer to Cyprus. 
"John Healey, the defence secretary, is considering sending Royal Navy destroyer HMS Duncan to Cyprus to help defend the Akrotiri RAF airbase from any future drone attacks.
Though a final decision has not been made, multiple sources said a deployment of the warship, currently in Portsmouth, was under discussion as a way to better protect the base in Cyprus.
HMS Duncan is specialised in counter drone operations and last month was engaged on a test exercise off the coast of Wales facing swarms of drones, before hosting a family day on Friday.
No major Navy warships are currently in or have been sent to the Middle East, even though the conflict is now in its fourth day, while concerns have been raised about the ease of which Akrotiri’s air defences were breached.
One drone, thought by Cypriot authorities to have been flown from Hezbollah controlled territory in Lebanon, crashed on to the runway at around midnight yesterday and two other drones were intercepted thereafter.
It would take several days for the HMS Duncan to reach Cyprus from Portsmouth as it travels at about 30 knots (34.5mph)." [Post edited 3 Mar 13:08]
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