| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. 07:41 - Mar 20 with 765 views | MattinLondon |
A possible shift in Labour trying to win back pro-EU Labour voters rather than trying to appeal to one’s who’ve switched to Reform. An over-simplification but I still found it interesting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art |  | | |  |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:04 - Mar 20 with 676 views | Herbivore |
Labour are toast I think. They've spent two years trying to appeal to people who will never vote for them and they've alienated far too many people who would naturally be Labour voters. That strategy is never going to end well and there's nobody in the parliamentary party with the talent or appeal to turn that around. |  |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:09 - Mar 20 with 663 views | DJR |
They might be upping the pro-EU rhetoric but I am not sure it makes much difference in practical terms.
They have already got into problems concerning the youth mobility scheme, with the EU demanding Uk-level tuition fees for EU students not on the youth mobility scheme.
https://inews.co.uk/news/polit
At the end of the day, the EU is in a much stronger bargaining position than the UK and has suffered much less from Brexit than the UK. And as we found out with Brexit, it isn't a case of the UK being able to obtain all of the benefits but none of the burdens.
Indeed, so long as the red lines remain (as Reeves stressed they do), it will merely be a case of tinkering at the edges. [Post edited 20 Mar 8:14]
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:28 - Mar 20 with 618 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:09 - Mar 20 by DJR |
They might be upping the pro-EU rhetoric but I am not sure it makes much difference in practical terms.
They have already got into problems concerning the youth mobility scheme, with the EU demanding Uk-level tuition fees for EU students not on the youth mobility scheme.
https://inews.co.uk/news/polit
At the end of the day, the EU is in a much stronger bargaining position than the UK and has suffered much less from Brexit than the UK. And as we found out with Brexit, it isn't a case of the UK being able to obtain all of the benefits but none of the burdens.
Indeed, so long as the red lines remain (as Reeves stressed they do), it will merely be a case of tinkering at the edges. [Post edited 20 Mar 8:14]
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Yep, I’m not convinced they’ll actually be making any headway with Leavers (which that article suggests it the aim) until they get rid of those illogical red lines. ‘Brexit is rubbish, but we’ll keep the things that makes it most rubbish’ isn’t much of a selling point. They won’t get back many of the economic benefits for the same reason either. |  |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:40 - Mar 20 with 571 views | BloomBlue |
People didn't vote for Labour because they liked them/their policies, they voted for them because they disliked the Tories and Labour was the 'other' option.
You don't win elections, you lose them.
Labour are trying to appeal to everyone at the moment and will end appealing to no one. |  | | |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 09:21 - Mar 20 with 507 views | Churchman |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:40 - Mar 20 by BloomBlue |
People didn't vote for Labour because they liked them/their policies, they voted for them because they disliked the Tories and Labour was the 'other' option.
You don't win elections, you lose them.
Labour are trying to appeal to everyone at the moment and will end appealing to no one. |
Absolutely this. It’s the same as 2019. People think Johnson was elected on ‘getting Brexit done’. I don’t believe the majority did. Most people still didn’t understand it, including Johnson.
People voted tory because Johnson was a popular personality and Corbyn with many people wasn’t. He came across as dour, unrealistic and slightly rabid. Personality was everything. Substance? Well we soon found out how much of the Johnson had.
To the present, the government are tinkering around the edges. They are trying to shore up their vote and that comes before right and wrong. Nothing new in that. It’s been going on for years with governments and frankly it’s pathetic and a primary reason why this country is in the mess it’s in.
Relationship with the EU? Of course we should seek to rejoin it, whatever the cost. Pre Brexit it was negligible - we paid in something like £13bn and received directly £9bn directly back. So a net contribution of £4bn. The Brexiteer argument ‘spend it on the NHS’! And the dimbos swallowed it. That net figure is about the same as Reeves splashed out in additional childrens’ payments in last years Benefits Budget giveaway.
Shame nobody bothered to think about the other benefits of EU membership. Everything from student swaps to ease of trade. Nobody chose to mention barriers to trade and the anchor that it’d put on business despite it being obvious. And that’s before getting to the political nightmare of N Ireland. The actual benefits of being in the EU were almost incalculable from economic to political.
Well trade with other countries! Yeah, that deal with the Faroe Islands really made a difference. The whole thing was a schoolboy debating society, idealistic nonsense (oddly with Corbyn as a supporter). It’s about time somebody was truly honest about it. Maybe Starmer as he was at the forefront of objecting to it. But like immigration it’s an untouchable subject really.
They’ll hide behind manifesto just as they’re hiding behind long gone ‘international law’ over Iran, but maybe they might do better to do what’s right. U.K. was at the forefront of developing Customs Union and Single Market. There’s a reason for that. It’s an obvious, sensible idea.
But is Labour interested in trade or the economy? Nothing in the last two years says they are. In fact everything says their energy is 100% devoted to ‘the party’, their vote and their careers, whatever the cost. So like defence, they’ll try and look business like over EU and trade, but I don’t think they’re interested.
This is nothing new. The tories weren’t interested either. We can always print money.
Strange times we live in. |  | | |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 09:26 - Mar 20 with 488 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:09 - Mar 20 by DJR |
They might be upping the pro-EU rhetoric but I am not sure it makes much difference in practical terms.
They have already got into problems concerning the youth mobility scheme, with the EU demanding Uk-level tuition fees for EU students not on the youth mobility scheme.
https://inews.co.uk/news/polit
At the end of the day, the EU is in a much stronger bargaining position than the UK and has suffered much less from Brexit than the UK. And as we found out with Brexit, it isn't a case of the UK being able to obtain all of the benefits but none of the burdens.
Indeed, so long as the red lines remain (as Reeves stressed they do), it will merely be a case of tinkering at the edges. [Post edited 20 Mar 8:14]
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The EU don't want the UK creeping into a relationship where we get all the op-outs without the corporate responsibilities - or the financial contributions. |  |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 09:38 - Mar 20 with 446 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:04 - Mar 20 by Herbivore |
Labour are toast I think. They've spent two years trying to appeal to people who will never vote for them and they've alienated far too many people who would naturally be Labour voters. That strategy is never going to end well and there's nobody in the parliamentary party with the talent or appeal to turn that around. |
That, fundamentally, is Labour's issue. Strategically I can't help but wonder who on Earth is advising the direction of the party. I think we're all left not really sure what or who Labour are standing for, and I'm not sure they know either.
In a business sense it starts to resemble clustering, with these parties seemingly all scrapping for the same vote. The issue for Labour is, unsurprisingly, parties like Reform are going to be better at appealing to bigots than they are.
It would far more valuable to Labour for them to "own" their part of the market in a non-competitive sense while strengthening their identity and prior market position. Labour's job since the emergence of parties like UKIP, Reform, and recent Tory governments should've been easy really. By intentionally and actively choosing to be good at the things they're bad at. If they go right, we go left. If they want to pull us out of the EU, we'll have a vote on re-joining. Instead we're left with a very vanilla and confused looking proposition, trying to be all things to all people and ultimately being none. You can understand why in pursuit of swing voters in an electoral system that punishes purity, but it's simply not going to end well for them. I can't help but feel they need to choose their lane and own it. |  | | |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 09:58 - Mar 20 with 394 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 09:21 - Mar 20 by Churchman |
Absolutely this. It’s the same as 2019. People think Johnson was elected on ‘getting Brexit done’. I don’t believe the majority did. Most people still didn’t understand it, including Johnson.
People voted tory because Johnson was a popular personality and Corbyn with many people wasn’t. He came across as dour, unrealistic and slightly rabid. Personality was everything. Substance? Well we soon found out how much of the Johnson had.
To the present, the government are tinkering around the edges. They are trying to shore up their vote and that comes before right and wrong. Nothing new in that. It’s been going on for years with governments and frankly it’s pathetic and a primary reason why this country is in the mess it’s in.
Relationship with the EU? Of course we should seek to rejoin it, whatever the cost. Pre Brexit it was negligible - we paid in something like £13bn and received directly £9bn directly back. So a net contribution of £4bn. The Brexiteer argument ‘spend it on the NHS’! And the dimbos swallowed it. That net figure is about the same as Reeves splashed out in additional childrens’ payments in last years Benefits Budget giveaway.
Shame nobody bothered to think about the other benefits of EU membership. Everything from student swaps to ease of trade. Nobody chose to mention barriers to trade and the anchor that it’d put on business despite it being obvious. And that’s before getting to the political nightmare of N Ireland. The actual benefits of being in the EU were almost incalculable from economic to political.
Well trade with other countries! Yeah, that deal with the Faroe Islands really made a difference. The whole thing was a schoolboy debating society, idealistic nonsense (oddly with Corbyn as a supporter). It’s about time somebody was truly honest about it. Maybe Starmer as he was at the forefront of objecting to it. But like immigration it’s an untouchable subject really.
They’ll hide behind manifesto just as they’re hiding behind long gone ‘international law’ over Iran, but maybe they might do better to do what’s right. U.K. was at the forefront of developing Customs Union and Single Market. There’s a reason for that. It’s an obvious, sensible idea.
But is Labour interested in trade or the economy? Nothing in the last two years says they are. In fact everything says their energy is 100% devoted to ‘the party’, their vote and their careers, whatever the cost. So like defence, they’ll try and look business like over EU and trade, but I don’t think they’re interested.
This is nothing new. The tories weren’t interested either. We can always print money.
Strange times we live in. |
It’s also strange to me the economic self-harm to the US, and chaos over there that there are still people in the UK that want some of that. Surely, that’s provided a great case study of why we should be closer to the EU, and part of the single market as a minimum. |  | | |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:08 - Mar 20 with 362 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 09:58 - Mar 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s also strange to me the economic self-harm to the US, and chaos over there that there are still people in the UK that want some of that. Surely, that’s provided a great case study of why we should be closer to the EU, and part of the single market as a minimum. |
The people who want some of that either don't comprehend the situation, or don't care because they think they can personally coat-tail on ultra-wealth creation. | |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:17 - Mar 20 with 339 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 09:38 - Mar 20 by _CliveBaker_ |
That, fundamentally, is Labour's issue. Strategically I can't help but wonder who on Earth is advising the direction of the party. I think we're all left not really sure what or who Labour are standing for, and I'm not sure they know either.
In a business sense it starts to resemble clustering, with these parties seemingly all scrapping for the same vote. The issue for Labour is, unsurprisingly, parties like Reform are going to be better at appealing to bigots than they are.
It would far more valuable to Labour for them to "own" their part of the market in a non-competitive sense while strengthening their identity and prior market position. Labour's job since the emergence of parties like UKIP, Reform, and recent Tory governments should've been easy really. By intentionally and actively choosing to be good at the things they're bad at. If they go right, we go left. If they want to pull us out of the EU, we'll have a vote on re-joining. Instead we're left with a very vanilla and confused looking proposition, trying to be all things to all people and ultimately being none. You can understand why in pursuit of swing voters in an electoral system that punishes purity, but it's simply not going to end well for them. I can't help but feel they need to choose their lane and own it. |
It is for the Tories to explain why the electorate shouldn’t vote Reform.
Labour should concentrate on why we should vote Labour. |  |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:32 - Mar 20 with 305 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:08 - Mar 20 by Guthrum |
The people who want some of that either don't comprehend the situation, or don't care because they think they can personally coat-tail on ultra-wealth creation. |
It’s not even ‘aspirational’ wealth, most of the wealthy will have seen their net worth decrease whilst market caps have been hit so hard, and trade barriers hitting profits, as well as tarring and commodity price driven inflation. It’s the sort of Russia style inner circle wealth which just benefits a few oligarchs.
Just hard to see the appeal! | | | |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:41 - Mar 20 with 292 views | Churchman |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 09:58 - Mar 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s also strange to me the economic self-harm to the US, and chaos over there that there are still people in the UK that want some of that. Surely, that’s provided a great case study of why we should be closer to the EU, and part of the single market as a minimum. |
Absolutely. But the Trumps and Farages of this world live off simple messages, fear and rhetoric because they know the suckers will buy that.
So what should serious politicians do? Well a bit of honesty and a little bravery might be a good start, especially as the likes of trump and Farage possess none of that. | | | |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:45 - Mar 20 with 278 views | Benters |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:41 - Mar 20 by Churchman |
Absolutely. But the Trumps and Farages of this world live off simple messages, fear and rhetoric because they know the suckers will buy that.
So what should serious politicians do? Well a bit of honesty and a little bravery might be a good start, especially as the likes of trump and Farage possess none of that. |
Morning!
That’s little old me 🇬🇧👍 |  |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:47 - Mar 20 with 273 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:32 - Mar 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s not even ‘aspirational’ wealth, most of the wealthy will have seen their net worth decrease whilst market caps have been hit so hard, and trade barriers hitting profits, as well as tarring and commodity price driven inflation. It’s the sort of Russia style inner circle wealth which just benefits a few oligarchs.
Just hard to see the appeal! |
It's part of American culture, but is also making inroads here. People are not poor, they simply haven't had their big break yet.
Thus there is no incentive to do anything about the structural causes of poverty, because it's the land of opportunity and personal riches could be just around the corner, if you only work hard and keep hoping. After all, if you don't look very hard, these wealthy people are just like you and me. This time next year we could be millionaires, Rodney (only with more desperation than endearing slapstick). | |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:48 - Mar 20 with 270 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 08:04 - Mar 20 by Herbivore |
Labour are toast I think. They've spent two years trying to appeal to people who will never vote for them and they've alienated far too many people who would naturally be Labour voters. That strategy is never going to end well and there's nobody in the parliamentary party with the talent or appeal to turn that around. |
If there’s a chink of light for him, it’ll be from the help of a war. PMs have in the past relied on wars to boost ratings, but NOT being in this war could help him. It’s been one of his few personal wins and is very much aligned with the public’s view.
It’s only the tiniest chink though; I think you’ll end up being right. Despite him doing what people want in this case, his PMship is probably a lost cause and he and the rest of Blue Labour will take that party down with them. It’ll end up being such a waste. | |
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:54 - Mar 20 with 255 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:47 - Mar 20 by Guthrum |
It's part of American culture, but is also making inroads here. People are not poor, they simply haven't had their big break yet.
Thus there is no incentive to do anything about the structural causes of poverty, because it's the land of opportunity and personal riches could be just around the corner, if you only work hard and keep hoping. After all, if you don't look very hard, these wealthy people are just like you and me. This time next year we could be millionaires, Rodney (only with more desperation than endearing slapstick). |
I guess the point was more that the current administration is the antithesis of this aspirational wealth creation - I.e wealth is earned by who you know/support, rather than on merit and a strong economy. | | | |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:59 - Mar 20 with 242 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:54 - Mar 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I guess the point was more that the current administration is the antithesis of this aspirational wealth creation - I.e wealth is earned by who you know/support, rather than on merit and a strong economy. |
Many of Trump's associates are easier to identify with - in terms of language, approach and attitudes - for you average working class or rural American than the traditional urbane Washington political class.
The VP portrays himself as a hillbilly made good. Hesketh is a Midwestern boy who's made it to the top. Trump himself enjoys golf, burgers and sticking it to the Libs, while dangling the carrot of a return to legendary prosperity for all. [Post edited 20 Mar 11:07]
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| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 12:32 - Mar 20 with 177 views | Churchman |
| Interesting article about Labours “new” relationship with the EU. on 10:48 - Mar 20 by Swansea_Blue |
If there’s a chink of light for him, it’ll be from the help of a war. PMs have in the past relied on wars to boost ratings, but NOT being in this war could help him. It’s been one of his few personal wins and is very much aligned with the public’s view.
It’s only the tiniest chink though; I think you’ll end up being right. Despite him doing what people want in this case, his PMship is probably a lost cause and he and the rest of Blue Labour will take that party down with them. It’ll end up being such a waste. |
I don’t think it’ll help him one iota. Starmer has looked weak and windy. Almost like somebody is telling him what to do (Milliband, Reeves and Cooper).
He’s been mocked and humiliated by trump after a year with his nose up the orange one’s trumpet sniffing the gas - not a good look given what an appalling creature trump is. He caved in almost immediately to Trump. B1 and a B52 bombers are not ‘defensive’ in any way shape or form.
Sending one mouldering little boat that’s bobbing about somewhere and couldn’t even manage the Bay of Biscay without a delay screams token effort, even to the dimmest.
Iran has started loudly threatening this country today as it was always going to (it was already engaged in planning bad stuff - see MI5) because it smells pitiful weakness. It knows it can do what it likes here without any cost to themselves. A free hit.
In addition Cyprus will rightly be telling this country to p£ss off when this mess is done and before the election. We couldn’t even protect it from one drone.
I know the pathetic state of this country is largely down to the criminal tories’ cuts, crashing the economy and austerity. But after nearly two years this will all fall on Starmer. I suspect Miliband will be in charge by the next election, so maybe it won’t matter.
Either way, I agree with the view that Starmer is toast. [Post edited 20 Mar 14:03]
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