| Are the people… (politics warning) 08:11 - May 9 with 1863 views | chicoazul |
…saying Starmer should go because of the result also saying Wales and Scotland should be given full independence? |  |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:20 - May 9 with 1265 views | WeWereZombies |
Err, no, that is quite clearly not what a party that believes in the United Kingdom as the best political state for eighty million people within four devolved nations are saying. Push back against over centralisation does not equate to complete break up. |  |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:22 - May 9 with 1248 views | chicoazul |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:20 - May 9 by WeWereZombies |
Err, no, that is quite clearly not what a party that believes in the United Kingdom as the best political state for eighty million people within four devolved nations are saying. Push back against over centralisation does not equate to complete break up. |
Why not? The SNP and Plaid were the big winners. If a defeat for Starmer means he has to go why doesn’t a victory for them mean they can’t? | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:22 - May 9 with 1249 views | Dubtractor |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:20 - May 9 by WeWereZombies |
Err, no, that is quite clearly not what a party that believes in the United Kingdom as the best political state for eighty million people within four devolved nations are saying. Push back against over centralisation does not equate to complete break up. |
I think he is referring to the fact that the two nationalist parties won there, will of the people being towards independence. [Post edited 9 May 8:23]
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:23 - May 9 with 1224 views | chicoazul |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:22 - May 9 by Dubtractor |
I think he is referring to the fact that the two nationalist parties won there, will of the people being towards independence. [Post edited 9 May 8:23]
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Yep. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:26 - May 9 with 1190 views | Mullet |
I think those saying Starmer should go are fundamentally wrong and misunderstand what these elections are.
They might believe in independence, certainly the "stop the boats" lot are likely to see Welsh and Scottish interests as foreign and not part of their ultra nationalism. |  |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:31 - May 9 with 1164 views | WeWereZombies |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:22 - May 9 by chicoazul |
Why not? The SNP and Plaid were the big winners. If a defeat for Starmer means he has to go why doesn’t a victory for them mean they can’t? |
The SNP are six seats down at Holyrood, not exactly winners...but whether Starmer goes or not is up to the party in power at Westminster. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:32 - May 9 with 1134 views | chicoazul |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:31 - May 9 by WeWereZombies |
The SNP are six seats down at Holyrood, not exactly winners...but whether Starmer goes or not is up to the party in power at Westminster. |
They won by miles. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:34 - May 9 with 1098 views | WeWereZombies |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:32 - May 9 by chicoazul |
They won by miles. |
They were already in power and now have less power...believe me, I was talking to some of their members and a sitting MSP just yesterday. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:37 - May 9 with 1072 views | chicoazul |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:34 - May 9 by WeWereZombies |
They were already in power and now have less power...believe me, I was talking to some of their members and a sitting MSP just yesterday. |
You’re doing your best to avoid the point with some Trust Me Bro replies. If it means the end for Starmer it also means the end of the UK. I’m interested to see anti Starmer and Reform types square this circle. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:53 - May 9 with 986 views | WeWereZombies |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:37 - May 9 by chicoazul |
You’re doing your best to avoid the point with some Trust Me Bro replies. If it means the end for Starmer it also means the end of the UK. I’m interested to see anti Starmer and Reform types square this circle. |
I'm doing my best to persuade you that getting out from behind the keyboard and talking to a range of politically active people is the best way to gauge what is really going on (I buttonholed my Lib-Dem Mp on a couple of important issues as well as I went about my business) but, true I only gave a despairing glance at the 'Reform' candidate, what would be the point of talking politics with them ? Also, wanting a change of party leader does not necessarily mean you are anti-Starmer, you might just feel that there is someone else who can do the job better. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:03 - May 9 with 945 views | BloomBlue |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:32 - May 9 by chicoazul |
They won by miles. |
I think the point people are making is Starmer and Scotland independence isnt connected. The SNP had more seats at the last election and that didn't lead to an independence vote.
Swinney, himself, also said leading up to the election that the only slim chance they had of going down the independence road was if the SNP won an overall majority, and they didn't. |  | | |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:06 - May 9 with 928 views | chicoazul |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:53 - May 9 by WeWereZombies |
I'm doing my best to persuade you that getting out from behind the keyboard and talking to a range of politically active people is the best way to gauge what is really going on (I buttonholed my Lib-Dem Mp on a couple of important issues as well as I went about my business) but, true I only gave a despairing glance at the 'Reform' candidate, what would be the point of talking politics with them ? Also, wanting a change of party leader does not necessarily mean you are anti-Starmer, you might just feel that there is someone else who can do the job better. |
So you don’t really have anything to contribute to my op beyond the usual TWTD condescension about keyboards. I am literally asking a question about politics of politically interested or active people. Reading comprehension on this board continues to dive. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:08 - May 9 with 915 views | WeWereZombies |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:06 - May 9 by chicoazul |
So you don’t really have anything to contribute to my op beyond the usual TWTD condescension about keyboards. I am literally asking a question about politics of politically interested or active people. Reading comprehension on this board continues to dive. |
You can read my contributions or imagine what you think I have typed as you wish, it's up to you. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:08 - May 9 with 914 views | chicoazul |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:03 - May 9 by BloomBlue |
I think the point people are making is Starmer and Scotland independence isnt connected. The SNP had more seats at the last election and that didn't lead to an independence vote.
Swinney, himself, also said leading up to the election that the only slim chance they had of going down the independence road was if the SNP won an overall majority, and they didn't. |
Labour gets thumped in this election - Starmer out
Pro independence parties win in Wales and Scotland in this election - well clearly it is a very nuanced question and being anti Starmer doesn’t mean you don’t like Starmer and the SNP actually said this and and and | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:10 - May 9 with 904 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:22 - May 9 by Dubtractor |
I think he is referring to the fact that the two nationalist parties won there, will of the people being towards independence. [Post edited 9 May 8:23]
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With a third in N. Ireland. It seems that English politics is being widely rejected by our proud devolved nations. |  |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:12 - May 9 with 894 views | chicoazul |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:10 - May 9 by Swansea_Blue |
With a third in N. Ireland. It seems that English politics is being widely rejected by our proud devolved nations. |
A vote for Reform is a vote for English Independence. The next 10 years in this country are going to be hilarious. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:17 - May 9 with 879 views | WeWereZombies |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:12 - May 9 by chicoazul |
A vote for Reform is a vote for English Independence. The next 10 years in this country are going to be hilarious. |
If you see 'Reform' as the party of English independence could you explain to me why they are putting candidates up in Scotland and Wales ? | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:18 - May 9 with 875 views | DJR |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 08:31 - May 9 by WeWereZombies |
The SNP are six seats down at Holyrood, not exactly winners...but whether Starmer goes or not is up to the party in power at Westminster. |
But the Scottish Greens support independence too and they have 15 seats, so there is a majority in the Scottish Parliament for independence.
Indeed, my understanding is that support for independence has held up pretty well despite SNP woes, perhaps inevitable after so long in government. And a poll I saw the other day showed 55% support.
I imagine that a UK Reform government would also increase support for independence but it is unlikely a UK government will allow another referendum.
By the way, I see that the Lib Dems won where you live. And I guess Kemi's husband's surname originates from one of the places mentioned in the constituency name. [Post edited 9 May 9:21]
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:20 - May 9 with 863 views | Dubtractor |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:12 - May 9 by chicoazul |
A vote for Reform is a vote for English Independence. The next 10 years in this country are going to be hilarious. |
Dunno about hilarious, but definitely messy. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:23 - May 9 with 844 views | WeWereZombies |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:18 - May 9 by DJR |
But the Scottish Greens support independence too and they have 15 seats, so there is a majority in the Scottish Parliament for independence.
Indeed, my understanding is that support for independence has held up pretty well despite SNP woes, perhaps inevitable after so long in government. And a poll I saw the other day showed 55% support.
I imagine that a UK Reform government would also increase support for independence but it is unlikely a UK government will allow another referendum.
By the way, I see that the Lib Dems won where you live. And I guess Kemi's husband's surname originates from one of the places mentioned in the constituency name. [Post edited 9 May 9:21]
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True, we'll have to wait and see if the SNP and the Greens kiss and make up...and stay together or fall out again. For what it is worth I expected the SNP vote to fall away further than it did and I think that the way it has held up is a testament to John Swinney's ability as a leader. | |
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:33 - May 9 with 806 views | eireblue |
Oh crikey, Chico has made an interesting point.
Obvs, Reform voters can answer for themselves.
But it does make for an interesting thought for Restore Britain. Do they start to differentiate themselves from Reform along those lines, e.g. Reform - same old Tories failing, let Scotland/Wales/NI do their thing, and Restore shift to represent England. |  | | |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:35 - May 9 with 801 views | urbanpenguin |
If I was Welsh or Scottish I suspect I would be very strongly arguing for independence. I totally understand why a nation would want to be independent. |  | | |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:41 - May 9 with 754 views | DJR |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:23 - May 9 by WeWereZombies |
True, we'll have to wait and see if the SNP and the Greens kiss and make up...and stay together or fall out again. For what it is worth I expected the SNP vote to fall away further than it did and I think that the way it has held up is a testament to John Swinney's ability as a leader. |
Yes, there does seem a particular difference when it comes to the oil and gas.
And it is interesting to see Stephen Flynn is now an MSP.
In my view, he is the most effective and articulate performer currently in Parliament, and is presentationally more in the mold of a Sturgeon or Salmond than Swinney, who is a good egg but probably doesn't want to go on for too long anyway.
EDIT: an interesting endorsement from Trump who probably doesn't realise the SNP want independence but it does suggest Swinney was right to claim some credit on whisky tariffs, despite the inevitable naysayers.
"Congratulations to John Swinney on winning his Re-Election for First Minister of Scotland. He is a good man, who worked very hard, along with the King and Queen of the United Kingdom, with respect to Tariff relief for Great Scottish Whiskey — and deserves this Big Electoral Victory!"
FURTHER EDIT; it does amaze me how well the SNP do given the Scottish media is so hostile to them. Maybe it just suggests that the average Scot is a bit more canny than those in England given the rightward sway that the media has had on politics in England for many decades. [Post edited 9 May 9:55]
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| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:44 - May 9 with 737 views | Smoresy |
Is the case being made that Starmer has a moral or democratic duty to go because the people have spoken? A mandate for him to resign, if you will. I think the case is rather being made that he ought to go to spare the party a resounding defeat at the next election, or because he's disliked by various people for various reasons. "Must" because concerned parties see an existential crisis for the party.
In respect to independence, Wales have again returned majority unionist candidates to the Sennedd. Scotland's case is stronger because they returned majority independence candidates I believe, if Scottish Green still swings the way, but voter turnout only just inched north of 50% and the SNP didn't achieve 50% of the vote in any constituency, while the overall vote share again went to unionist candidates. So not a strong case to relitigate that one presently, either. |  | | |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 10:01 - May 9 with 663 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Are the people… (politics warning) on 09:12 - May 9 by chicoazul |
A vote for Reform is a vote for English Independence. The next 10 years in this country are going to be hilarious. |
Is it? It’s certainly a nationalist vote although more for UK nationalism I thought, but feck knows. It’ll be wherever the grift takes them.
There’s a thought provoking piece from economist Richard Murphy about this question - https://www.taxresearch.org.uk | |
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