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Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 19:24 - May 19 by tonybied
They have still been training since the semi-final defeat, they haven't been allowed to go away on holiday. In fact they probably have more of an advantage, as they know who they would be playing against. Hull would've had to plan to play either.
[Post edited 19 May 19:26]
Agreed. It doesn’t sit right with me either that Boro have had the more time to prepare for their play off final opponent.
I’d be well pissed off with this if I was a hull fan. Hopefully Hull take them apart.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:12 - May 19 by Ftnfwest
They have a six day head start on hull knowing who they’ll play. Could only have been hull
How on earth do teams cope in the knockout stages of tournaments like the World Cup when they don’t know which of two sides the’ll be playing, with similar short time-spans between …
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:26 - May 19 by Ryorry
How on earth do teams cope in the knockout stages of tournaments like the World Cup when they don’t know which of two sides the’ll be playing, with similar short time-spans between …
It's not the World Cup, it's the playoffs where the ties are played 24 hours from each other with a 10-day timeframe to prepare for the winners.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:17 - May 19 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
They'll probably miss 27 first half chances again and then cry about their defender make a stupid foul in the box, so I am not actually too sure what I am worried about.
[Post edited 19 May 20:18]
So it's going to be decided by a game of football, rather than a game of football + a load of illegal spying? Great. If Hull are better than Boro they'll win easily.
Let's just focus on Southampton, and their lack of ethical regard, which has put a game of football in such a ridiculous position, for which they are rightly being punished for.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:28 - May 19 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
It's not the World Cup, it's the playoffs where the ties are played 24 hours from each other with a 10-day timeframe to prepare for the winners.
Obviously. I still find it strange that some people think a near elite level professional football club isn’t capable of adapting to play another side in the same league within 3.5 days, when they must have had it at the back of their minds that was going to be a possibility anyway.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:30 - May 19 by BackToRussia
So it's going to be decided by a game of football, rather than a game of football + a load of illegal spying? Great. If Hull are better than Boro they'll win easily.
Let's just focus on Southampton, and their lack of ethical regard, which has put a game of football in such a ridiculous position, for which they are rightly being punished for.
A game of football that one team shouldn't be in, actually two teams shouldn't be in, hence why Hull should be promoted.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:33 - May 19 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
A game of football that one team shouldn't be in, actually two teams shouldn't be in, hence why Hull should be promoted.
I really don't get your logic. Southampton cheated to gain an advantage against Boro. They have now been found guilty of that and punished with expulsion.
It would be farcical to simply promote Hull, because the Boro-S'hampton result is now void. Boro receive a bye, because they have still earned their spot in the POs through their performance in the league. Southampton have voided their place in the playoffs by cheating and thereby promoted Boro.
What other alternative is there? You couldn't have a replay of Saints V Boro because the whole tie is tainted now by the spying. Promoting Hull essentially voids all of Boro's season through no fault of their own.
According to you, their fault is not winning against a team that was cheating. Because they clearly earned their place in the play-offs.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:38 - May 19 by BackToRussia
I really don't get your logic. Southampton cheated to gain an advantage against Boro. They have now been found guilty of that and punished with expulsion.
It would be farcical to simply promote Hull, because the Boro-S'hampton result is now void. Boro receive a bye, because they have still earned their spot in the POs through their performance in the league. Southampton have voided their place in the playoffs by cheating and thereby promoted Boro.
What other alternative is there? You couldn't have a replay of Saints V Boro because the whole tie is tainted now by the spying. Promoting Hull essentially voids all of Boro's season through no fault of their own.
According to you, their fault is not winning against a team that was cheating. Because they clearly earned their place in the play-offs.
Not for me.
They broke the rules, but I actually think they were almost at a disadvantage after they were caught and all the noise that then accompanied that fixture and the firestorm that awaited them. That was the worst metrics Southampton had in any half all season, they were rocked and Boro fluffed their lines again.
Then Saints clearly won with their better squad depth at St Mary's, that was obvious. I am not saying Southampton should play the final (although I thought they would) but I really don't think Boro deserve their place in a game which has the biggest prize in football waiting.
Hull are the only team in the competition that won and advanced and I don't think they have a credible opponent in Boro after watching the 2 legs, you may say they do by default but that would be extremely lucky to say the least. Not only that Hull have had half of their prep time ruined which is a huge dissadvtange for them.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:51 - May 19 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Not for me.
They broke the rules, but I actually think they were almost at a disadvantage after they were caught and all the noise that then accompanied that fixture and the firestorm that awaited them. That was the worst metrics Southampton had in any half all season, they were rocked and Boro fluffed their lines again.
Then Saints clearly won with their better squad depth at St Mary's, that was obvious. I am not saying Southampton should play the final (although I thought they would) but I really don't think Boro deserve their place in a game which has the biggest prize in football waiting.
Hull are the only team in the competition that won and advanced and I don't think they have a credible opponent in Boro after watching the 2 legs, you may say they do by default but that would be extremely lucky to say the least. Not only that Hull have had half of their prep time ruined which is a huge dissadvtange for them.
[Post edited 19 May 20:52]
Whether they actually gained an advantage from cheating is a moot point. If someone breaks and enters but doesn't nick anything, it's still a crime. You can easily reverse your point and say, Boro were distracted by the fact that Southampton's cheating was already public knowledge (although not proven yet) while they were playing the ties. And given Southampton won, there will always be the lingering association that they gained some sort of advantage by the spying. You can state they won down to ability, but that is precisely the point; when you cheat, you nullify any REAL achievements you may have made. It's sullied, you can't tell between what was gained by genuine merit and what was gained by deception.
Boro can consider themselves both lucky and unlucky in my opinion.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 20:56 - May 19 by BackToRussia
Whether they actually gained an advantage from cheating is a moot point. If someone breaks and enters but doesn't nick anything, it's still a crime. You can easily reverse your point and say, Boro were distracted by the fact that Southampton's cheating was already public knowledge (although not proven yet) while they were playing the ties. And given Southampton won, there will always be the lingering association that they gained some sort of advantage by the spying. You can state they won down to ability, but that is precisely the point; when you cheat, you nullify any REAL achievements you may have made. It's sullied, you can't tell between what was gained by genuine merit and what was gained by deception.
Boro can consider themselves both lucky and unlucky in my opinion.
[Post edited 19 May 21:26]
You could but the evidence does not back that up with the eye test.
How you consider Boro 'unlucky' after losing over 2 legs and having one game to get into the PL is wild to me, but I guess it's all about opinions.
Southampton have deservedly been thrown out. They’ve admitted spying on three opponents. I think the punishment is light. I’d relegate them to L1, deduct 30 points for next season and fine them their parachute money.
Middlesbrough and Hull? I’d abandon the play off final and the play offs for this season and promote Millwall who finished third and deserved promotion.
Sorted
Only joking! In all seriousness, the punishment and reinstatement of the smoggies is about right for me, even if the points deduction looks light.
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Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 21:05 - May 19 with 776 views
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 21:05 - May 19 by BackToRussia
Because their opponent cheated? Surely every team deserves a match on an equal footing, especially one of this import.
[Post edited 19 May 21:06]
Then why not suspend the first leg before a ball was kicked?
They were charged immediately, have the investigation at that point. A bye by default after losing and watching those two legs doesn’t sit right with me for multiple reason's that I outlined above, not least because it also screws Hull’s preparation.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 21:17 - May 19 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Then why not suspend the first leg before a ball was kicked?
They were charged immediately, have the investigation at that point. A bye by default after losing and watching those two legs doesn’t sit right with me for multiple reason's that I outlined above, not least because it also screws Hull’s preparation.
You can argue with the way the EFL have prosecuted this, but ultimately, the facts are Southampton cheated and they have now been punished.
And you're right, Hull are going to face the consequences, but that's what cheating does, it fvcks everything up.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 21:23 - May 19 by BackToRussia
You can argue with the way the EFL have prosecuted this, but ultimately, the facts are Southampton cheated and they have now been punished.
And you're right, Hull are going to face the consequences, but that's what cheating does, it fvcks everything up.
Yes, it does, the thing is I am not arguing you that Southampton should have a shot at PL and be punished after the fact. I agree with their expulsion, especially if they have admitted it was systemic. I am just of the opinion Boro do not deserve said shot. Hull are the only team that have won fairly in the playoff mini tournament.
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 21:43 - May 19 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Yes, it does, the thing is I am not arguing you that Southampton should have a shot at PL and be punished after the fact. I agree with their expulsion, especially if they have admitted it was systemic. I am just of the opinion Boro do not deserve said shot. Hull are the only team that have won fairly in the playoff mini tournament.
Hull are the only team to have won fairly in the POs because Middlesbrough were denied that opportunity. It’s not really a hard concept is it.
Agree it also disadvantages Hull slightly because of the prep.
Talks of bottling etc just looks like you have a personal agenda against Boro.
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Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 07:12 - May 20 with 409 views
Boro going up would be a complete farce! on 21:43 - May 19 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Yes, it does, the thing is I am not arguing you that Southampton should have a shot at PL and be punished after the fact. I agree with their expulsion, especially if they have admitted it was systemic. I am just of the opinion Boro do not deserve said shot. Hull are the only team that have won fairly in the playoff mini tournament.
I admire your determination to die on this particular hill, Joey, but I think you are wrong.
Southampton sought to gain advantage by breaking the rules. Not once either. The saddo doing it was caught in the act. That disqualifies (hopefully) Southampton. Their opponents should go through. The result of the tie is immaterial as far as I’m concerned.
There will never be a perfect solution to a situation like this, especially with something like the play offs that are inherently unfair.
For once I think the EFL have got it as near right as they can. Let’s hope they stick to it because if they don’t it’ll turn a epic mess into a farce.
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