| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you 18:14 - May 20 with 2274 views | eirannach_gorm |
Disgraceful treatment of people trying to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza.
Ben-Gvir is a real charmer.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ |  | | |  |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 08:47 - May 21 with 700 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 00:53 - May 21 by GlasgowBlue |
I explained this in my previous post.
“ The state of Israel was formed by Holocaust survivors as a safe haven for Jews after the Nazis exterminated 6 million of them. You could have compared the actions if the Israeli state in Gaza with Holodomor, the Cambodian Genocide, the Armenian Genocide or Rwandan Genocide, You could have compared the actions of the Israeli state with those of Assad's Syria or Saddam's Iraq. But you went straight to the antisemitic comparison with the Nazis. Why was that? Why did you use the comparison with the nazis instead of one of the others I have just listed?
When you compare the actions of the Israeli state to the Nazis, you are attacking them as Jews. That they haven't learned a moral lesson from their own history. It also trivialises the Holocaust which is is nothing like what has happened in Gaza, no matter how awful and indefensible that conflict is
Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you by GlasgowBlue 20 May 22:33What Israel has done to Gaza is indefensible. No One is defending their actions. I have stated on numerous occasions that there should be trials for war crimes. So you can knock the "defending' accusation on the head right now.
And I'm not hiding behind an article. I am linking you to the IHRA definition of Antisemitism, which states " drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis" as an example of antisemitism.
https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
The state of Israel was formed by Holocaust survivors as a safe haven for Jews after the Nazis exterminated 6 million of them. You could have compared the actions if the Israeli state in Gaza with Holodomor, the Cambodian Genocide, the Armenian Genocide or Rwandan Genocide, You could have compared the actions of the Israeli state with those of Assad's Syria or Saddam's Iraq. But you went straight to the antisemitic comparison with the Nazis. Why was that? Why did you use the comparison with the nazis instead of one of the others I have just listed?
When you compare the actions of the Israeli state to the Nazis, you are attacking them as Jews. That they haven't learned a moral lesson from their own history. It also trivialises the Holocaust which is is nothing like what has happened in Gaza, no matter how awful and indefensible that conflict is.
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“When you compare the actions of the Israeli state to the Nazis, you are attacking them as Jews”
Isn’t conflating Israel with Judaism antisemitic? Or is it not antisemitic in this case but it is antisemitic to say that history will compare two genocides? I couldn’t care less what their religion is, if you set out to exterminate an entire group of people, commit international war crimes, block aid and carry out the acts that are being seen then I don’t think you can get any lower than that so yeah, I believe those involved, and those who support their actions, will be compared to the worst humans and human acts imaginable in the future. | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 10:39 - May 21 with 598 views | giant_stow |
I must admit to not having much respect for these flotillas - until now they've seemed performative and unlikely to have any impact on people's lives. I guess its ironic that by behaving this way Ben-Gvir has given them meaning and shone a light on how Palestinian captives are probably treated away from cameras. |  |
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| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 10:55 - May 21 with 566 views | NthQldITFC |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 10:39 - May 21 by giant_stow |
I must admit to not having much respect for these flotillas - until now they've seemed performative and unlikely to have any impact on people's lives. I guess its ironic that by behaving this way Ben-Gvir has given them meaning and shone a light on how Palestinian captives are probably treated away from cameras. |
With the greatest of respect, I don't think there's any 'probably' about it.
As you say the flotillas are performative, but they bring a small degree media attention back to the atrocities carried out by Israel at a time when people are getting 'bored' with thinking about them, and are having their attention conveniently diverted away to other things. [Post edited 21 May 10:59]
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| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 11:00 - May 21 with 552 views | giant_stow |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 10:55 - May 21 by NthQldITFC |
With the greatest of respect, I don't think there's any 'probably' about it.
As you say the flotillas are performative, but they bring a small degree media attention back to the atrocities carried out by Israel at a time when people are getting 'bored' with thinking about them, and are having their attention conveniently diverted away to other things. [Post edited 21 May 10:59]
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Thats fair. I only used 'probably' because I haven't spent a lot of time looking into to form my own opinion, but you're most likely right. | |
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| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 12:45 - May 21 with 489 views | eireblue |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 08:02 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
Why shouldn’t I use the way that history looks upon the Nazis as a comparison? Why wouldn’t I? The Holocaust is one of, if not the, biggest and most well known human tragedy in history. The other genocides you mention don’t have the same historic significance as the Holocaust, so why would I use them as an example? You’ve point don’t get to decide which historic event I get to compare an ongoing genocide to.
You’ve point that “drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis” is antisemitic twice but that’s completely irrelevant to the point that I was making. I didn’t mention Israeli “policy” (are their current actions Israeli policy? Genuine question) I said that future generations will look back on them in the same way that we look back on the Nazis and ask the same questions; why did it happen, how did it happen, why didn’t people do more to stop it, how could people actively support that? I stand by that, and in no way is that antisemitic.
Trying desperately to spin something as antisemitic which is clearly not antisemitic only strips the word of its meaning |
A bit like other minority groups, they tend to tell majority groups, what they don’t like.
As GB has pointed out there are other well known genocidal acts, some carried out by the British government.
Your comparison could then be, historic examples of British actions killing and starving people in Europe, Asia, Africa, and bits of Australasia.
Why is it a minority groups problem, that you don’t have enough knowledge of other historical acts, that may have been perpetrated by your own forebears.
The choice of the majority group is to respect those wishes, and have the ability to make their points without reverting to terms that the minority group have suggested you shouldn’t do.
If the majority wish to impose something on the minority, well…we know what that is.
So if you wanted to continue to use language that overrides what a minority want, would I be okay, to point out, that you are being no different to other patronising, racist, colonist individuals that forced language on people? |  | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 13:19 - May 21 with 457 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 12:45 - May 21 by eireblue |
A bit like other minority groups, they tend to tell majority groups, what they don’t like.
As GB has pointed out there are other well known genocidal acts, some carried out by the British government.
Your comparison could then be, historic examples of British actions killing and starving people in Europe, Asia, Africa, and bits of Australasia.
Why is it a minority groups problem, that you don’t have enough knowledge of other historical acts, that may have been perpetrated by your own forebears.
The choice of the majority group is to respect those wishes, and have the ability to make their points without reverting to terms that the minority group have suggested you shouldn’t do.
If the majority wish to impose something on the minority, well…we know what that is.
So if you wanted to continue to use language that overrides what a minority want, would I be okay, to point out, that you are being no different to other patronising, racist, colonist individuals that forced language on people? |
So…
A) You’ve assumed my “group” ie. My religion and my nationality
B) Who is the minority group that you’re referring to? Who are “they”? Is it Jewish people or Israeli people or someone else?
C) I’ve explained why the Holocaust is a perfectly suitable event to suggest that there will be comparisons in the future. I’ve got plenty of knowledge of other atrocities, but the Holocaust is the most prominent event where people raise the questions that I stated, hence why I used it as an example of how future generations will compare the two. If you want to compare the current genocide with a different genocide then I’m absolutely okay with that, I don’t believe certain genocides should be protected from being compared to others
D) What on earth has “forcing language on people” got to do with my points? Is that what’s happening to the people responsible for this genocide? Or are you accusing me of forcing language onto the Israeli government?
E) Is GB an Israeli supporting the governments actions? I’ve genuinely no idea but if he’s not, why is his opinion more valid than anyone else’s? | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 13:55 - May 21 with 420 views | eireblue |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 13:19 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
So…
A) You’ve assumed my “group” ie. My religion and my nationality
B) Who is the minority group that you’re referring to? Who are “they”? Is it Jewish people or Israeli people or someone else?
C) I’ve explained why the Holocaust is a perfectly suitable event to suggest that there will be comparisons in the future. I’ve got plenty of knowledge of other atrocities, but the Holocaust is the most prominent event where people raise the questions that I stated, hence why I used it as an example of how future generations will compare the two. If you want to compare the current genocide with a different genocide then I’m absolutely okay with that, I don’t believe certain genocides should be protected from being compared to others
D) What on earth has “forcing language on people” got to do with my points? Is that what’s happening to the people responsible for this genocide? Or are you accusing me of forcing language onto the Israeli government?
E) Is GB an Israeli supporting the governments actions? I’ve genuinely no idea but if he’s not, why is his opinion more valid than anyone else’s? |
A. No, that is why I used the word could, I don’t know you.
B. Minority group is used as an abstraction.
C. Some of the people directly affected by that event, don’t want people to use that event, in that way.
D. See B.
E. See C. GB is more eloquent that virtually everyone else on this site at condemning the actions of the current Israeli Government, and manages to do that with respect to point C. | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 14:10 - May 21 with 402 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 13:55 - May 21 by eireblue |
A. No, that is why I used the word could, I don’t know you.
B. Minority group is used as an abstraction.
C. Some of the people directly affected by that event, don’t want people to use that event, in that way.
D. See B.
E. See C. GB is more eloquent that virtually everyone else on this site at condemning the actions of the current Israeli Government, and manages to do that with respect to point C. |
A) You’ve assumed I’m in a majority group, rather than the minority group, so yes, you’ve made assumptions about me
B) Why won’t you name the group you’re referring to as a minority group for clarity? Otherwise I’ve got no idea who you’re lumping into that group
C) In what way? Did you see my post that got deleted? You believe there are people who were directly impacted by the Holocaust who don’t want me to be able to suggest that parallels will be drawn by future generations as to how this was allowed to happen? See link below, if you believe that generations in 100 years time won’t be comparing the events then that’s fine, I believe that will be the case
D) Your ‘see B’ makes zero sense, can you clarify who I’m forcing language on?
E) So because a poster doesn’t think people in the future will ask the same questions about the two events that makes them right? You can argue whether they should or shouldn’t do it, but I’m so certain that it will happen
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabo | | | |
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| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 14:30 - May 21 with 384 views | eireblue |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 14:10 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
A) You’ve assumed I’m in a majority group, rather than the minority group, so yes, you’ve made assumptions about me
B) Why won’t you name the group you’re referring to as a minority group for clarity? Otherwise I’ve got no idea who you’re lumping into that group
C) In what way? Did you see my post that got deleted? You believe there are people who were directly impacted by the Holocaust who don’t want me to be able to suggest that parallels will be drawn by future generations as to how this was allowed to happen? See link below, if you believe that generations in 100 years time won’t be comparing the events then that’s fine, I believe that will be the case
D) Your ‘see B’ makes zero sense, can you clarify who I’m forcing language on?
E) So because a poster doesn’t think people in the future will ask the same questions about the two events that makes them right? You can argue whether they should or shouldn’t do it, but I’m so certain that it will happen
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabo |
If I wanted to say, you are in a minority group, I would say you are in a minority group.
You don’t seem to understand the purpose of trying to use abstraction to bring clarity. | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 14:46 - May 21 with 366 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 14:30 - May 21 by eireblue |
If I wanted to say, you are in a minority group, I would say you are in a minority group.
You don’t seem to understand the purpose of trying to use abstraction to bring clarity. |
So just for clarity, you’ve assumed I’m not in a minority group, you’ve been unable to answer any of my questions about your assertions, and you’ve offered absolutely zero input to the posts subject.
Really helpful insight | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:23 - May 21 with 333 views | eireblue |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 14:46 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
So just for clarity, you’ve assumed I’m not in a minority group, you’ve been unable to answer any of my questions about your assertions, and you’ve offered absolutely zero input to the posts subject.
Really helpful insight |
I think we have established, you don’t understand the benefit of abstraction for clarity.
And you don’t understand the word could.
Let’s try this again with a more concrete example, I could be a member of the LGBTQ+ community.
You could not be a member of that community.
You could choose to deadname me.
So a minority has asked a majority group not to use language in a certain way.
A member of the majority group decides to continue using that language anyway.
The abstract principle is a minority group, gets to decide what they find offensive.
People can choose to accept that, or ignore it.
I don’t understand why people struggle with this. | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:35 - May 21 with 320 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:23 - May 21 by eireblue |
I think we have established, you don’t understand the benefit of abstraction for clarity.
And you don’t understand the word could.
Let’s try this again with a more concrete example, I could be a member of the LGBTQ+ community.
You could not be a member of that community.
You could choose to deadname me.
So a minority has asked a majority group not to use language in a certain way.
A member of the majority group decides to continue using that language anyway.
The abstract principle is a minority group, gets to decide what they find offensive.
People can choose to accept that, or ignore it.
I don’t understand why people struggle with this. |
You’re suggesting that I want to use language that a minority group don’t want used, so you’re assuming I’m not part of that minority group no?
So you still won’t name the minority group that you think I don’t belong to, and would be offended by me suggesting that in years to come the ongoing genocide will be questioned in the same way as the Holocaust. I don’t understand why you’re so on edge about clarifying who you’re talking about?
Your example is ridiculous and has no relevance to what I said so you’re making an argument using an irrelevant example, about a post that you didn’t see, using an example that is very clear cut. Try using some direct language about what exactly your issue is, I don’t know why that’s so hard for you? Stop with the ‘abstraction for clarity’ rubbish and actually make your point explicitly. Your example once again assumes that I’m not in the same minority group.
You’ve still been unable to actually answer any of my questions, which is weird considering you jumped in to try and attack the language that I used | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:53 - May 21 with 281 views | eireblue |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:35 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
You’re suggesting that I want to use language that a minority group don’t want used, so you’re assuming I’m not part of that minority group no?
So you still won’t name the minority group that you think I don’t belong to, and would be offended by me suggesting that in years to come the ongoing genocide will be questioned in the same way as the Holocaust. I don’t understand why you’re so on edge about clarifying who you’re talking about?
Your example is ridiculous and has no relevance to what I said so you’re making an argument using an irrelevant example, about a post that you didn’t see, using an example that is very clear cut. Try using some direct language about what exactly your issue is, I don’t know why that’s so hard for you? Stop with the ‘abstraction for clarity’ rubbish and actually make your point explicitly. Your example once again assumes that I’m not in the same minority group.
You’ve still been unable to actually answer any of my questions, which is weird considering you jumped in to try and attack the language that I used |
Using abstraction for clarity, is the point.
You seem to struggle with this.
It is a common way to bring clarity, and precision in many areas, such as maths, philosophy, ethics.
You don’t seem to like that approach, fine. | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:56 - May 21 with 278 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:53 - May 21 by eireblue |
Using abstraction for clarity, is the point.
You seem to struggle with this.
It is a common way to bring clarity, and precision in many areas, such as maths, philosophy, ethics.
You don’t seem to like that approach, fine. |
But you haven’t clarified anything through abstraction have you? All you’ve done is to try and confuse the situation to make a point with zero relevance to what I said.
Really quickly, do you think the ongoing genocide will be compared to the Holocaust by historians in the future? Straight forward yes or no will do | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:08 - May 21 with 248 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:35 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
You’re suggesting that I want to use language that a minority group don’t want used, so you’re assuming I’m not part of that minority group no?
So you still won’t name the minority group that you think I don’t belong to, and would be offended by me suggesting that in years to come the ongoing genocide will be questioned in the same way as the Holocaust. I don’t understand why you’re so on edge about clarifying who you’re talking about?
Your example is ridiculous and has no relevance to what I said so you’re making an argument using an irrelevant example, about a post that you didn’t see, using an example that is very clear cut. Try using some direct language about what exactly your issue is, I don’t know why that’s so hard for you? Stop with the ‘abstraction for clarity’ rubbish and actually make your point explicitly. Your example once again assumes that I’m not in the same minority group.
You’ve still been unable to actually answer any of my questions, which is weird considering you jumped in to try and attack the language that I used |
You seem to be spending a lot of time and effort trying to justy comparing current actions by the Israeli state to those of the Nazis. Even though I have pointed out to you that this is antisemitic as per the IHRA definition of antisemitism.
Both eireblue and I have given you a list of other atrocities carried out in conflicts around the world, including those by our own government and allies that you could compare the current situation in Gaza to yet you continue to double down on your right to continue using an antisemitic trope which is extremely sensitive to Jews around the world.
I can say that the war crimes carried out by the Israeli state are war crimes, that the current actions in Gaza are com parable with the actions of Assad when he killed 450,000 Syrians, 4.8 million Syrians fled Syria as refugees, 6.3 million were internally displaced within Syria and 13.5 million required humanitarian assistance.
These hard numbers may dwarf those of Gaza but to the victims of Netanyahu's brutal war crimes they are as equally horrific.
I can say that Netanyahu should be in front of a court in the Hague, along with members of his cabinet and armed forces facing rials for war crimes.
I can say that Israel should cease all hostilities, demolish all settlements and negotiate a two state solution with the Palestinian people.
I can say all of this and more without using antisemitic language yet you
are choosing this antisemitic hill to die on? [Post edited 21 May 16:12]
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| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:23 - May 21 with 225 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 15:56 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
But you haven’t clarified anything through abstraction have you? All you’ve done is to try and confuse the situation to make a point with zero relevance to what I said.
Really quickly, do you think the ongoing genocide will be compared to the Holocaust by historians in the future? Straight forward yes or no will do |
I'll answer. No I don't.
The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million European Jews by the Nazi German regime that took place throughout Europe between 1933 and 1945.
During World War II, Nazi Germany and its allies and collaborators killed nearly two out of every three European Jews using deadly living conditions, brutal mistreatment, mass shootings and gassings, and specially designed killing centers.
As awful as the situation in Gaza is, current estimates put Palestinian casualties at 73,770+ . That number includes Hamas fighters but Hamas won't release how many of their fighters have been killed.
The population of the Gaza Strip is approximately 2.13 million people. So the pro rata casualties are no where near comparable to those of the Holocaust. The methods used in Gaza are nowhere near comparable of the methods used by the Nazis during the Holocaust.
So, and I am deeply sorry that posting hard numbers comes across as insensitive, you comparison is utter bollox. That doesn't min imise the horrors that have taken place in Gaza since late October of 2023. War crimes have been committed. People should be held accountable.
So now we have established that the comparison is wrong we should move on to other conflicts which could be considered to be comparable. But you don't want to do that. You want to attack the Israeli state as Jews rather than as war criminals.
edit. And sadly, your insurance in comparing the actions of the Israeli state to those of the Nazis is taking away from what is universal condemnation of Ben-Gvir and disgusting actions yesterday. Actions that have been condemned by worldwide Jewery [Post edited 21 May 16:27]
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| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:32 - May 21 with 212 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:08 - May 21 by GlasgowBlue |
You seem to be spending a lot of time and effort trying to justy comparing current actions by the Israeli state to those of the Nazis. Even though I have pointed out to you that this is antisemitic as per the IHRA definition of antisemitism.
Both eireblue and I have given you a list of other atrocities carried out in conflicts around the world, including those by our own government and allies that you could compare the current situation in Gaza to yet you continue to double down on your right to continue using an antisemitic trope which is extremely sensitive to Jews around the world.
I can say that the war crimes carried out by the Israeli state are war crimes, that the current actions in Gaza are com parable with the actions of Assad when he killed 450,000 Syrians, 4.8 million Syrians fled Syria as refugees, 6.3 million were internally displaced within Syria and 13.5 million required humanitarian assistance.
These hard numbers may dwarf those of Gaza but to the victims of Netanyahu's brutal war crimes they are as equally horrific.
I can say that Netanyahu should be in front of a court in the Hague, along with members of his cabinet and armed forces facing rials for war crimes.
I can say that Israel should cease all hostilities, demolish all settlements and negotiate a two state solution with the Palestinian people.
I can say all of this and more without using antisemitic language yet you
are choosing this antisemitic hill to die on? [Post edited 21 May 16:12]
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Weird that you’ve chosen not to reply to the below….
“When you compare the actions of the Israeli state to the Nazis, you are attacking them as Jews”
Isn’t conflating Israel with Judaism antisemitic? Or is it not antisemitic in this case but it is antisemitic to say that history will compare two genocides? I couldn’t care less what their religion is, if you set out to exterminate an entire group of people, commit international war crimes, block aid and carry out the acts that are being seen then I don’t think you can get any lower than that so yeah, I believe those involved, and those who support their actions, will be compared to the worst humans and human acts imaginable in the future.
I apologies to anyone directly affected by the Holocaust if they’re offended by my stating that future generations will look back on this genocide with the same level of horror that we look back at the Holocaust with but my Nan would be spinning in her grave at the thought of how much of her history is repeating itself and she wouldn’t give a damn about what people compared it to. I appreciate there are people who may give a damn though so apologies for any offence | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:36 - May 21 with 185 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:23 - May 21 by GlasgowBlue |
I'll answer. No I don't.
The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million European Jews by the Nazi German regime that took place throughout Europe between 1933 and 1945.
During World War II, Nazi Germany and its allies and collaborators killed nearly two out of every three European Jews using deadly living conditions, brutal mistreatment, mass shootings and gassings, and specially designed killing centers.
As awful as the situation in Gaza is, current estimates put Palestinian casualties at 73,770+ . That number includes Hamas fighters but Hamas won't release how many of their fighters have been killed.
The population of the Gaza Strip is approximately 2.13 million people. So the pro rata casualties are no where near comparable to those of the Holocaust. The methods used in Gaza are nowhere near comparable of the methods used by the Nazis during the Holocaust.
So, and I am deeply sorry that posting hard numbers comes across as insensitive, you comparison is utter bollox. That doesn't min imise the horrors that have taken place in Gaza since late October of 2023. War crimes have been committed. People should be held accountable.
So now we have established that the comparison is wrong we should move on to other conflicts which could be considered to be comparable. But you don't want to do that. You want to attack the Israeli state as Jews rather than as war criminals.
edit. And sadly, your insurance in comparing the actions of the Israeli state to those of the Nazis is taking away from what is universal condemnation of Ben-Gvir and disgusting actions yesterday. Actions that have been condemned by worldwide Jewery [Post edited 21 May 16:27]
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73,700 so far…
I wonder what you’d do / say if you could go back to Eastern Europe when “only” 73,700 people had been murdered by the Nazis? The situation in Gaza is still ongoing with no end in sight | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:49 - May 21 with 138 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:32 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
Weird that you’ve chosen not to reply to the below….
“When you compare the actions of the Israeli state to the Nazis, you are attacking them as Jews”
Isn’t conflating Israel with Judaism antisemitic? Or is it not antisemitic in this case but it is antisemitic to say that history will compare two genocides? I couldn’t care less what their religion is, if you set out to exterminate an entire group of people, commit international war crimes, block aid and carry out the acts that are being seen then I don’t think you can get any lower than that so yeah, I believe those involved, and those who support their actions, will be compared to the worst humans and human acts imaginable in the future.
I apologies to anyone directly affected by the Holocaust if they’re offended by my stating that future generations will look back on this genocide with the same level of horror that we look back at the Holocaust with but my Nan would be spinning in her grave at the thought of how much of her history is repeating itself and she wouldn’t give a damn about what people compared it to. I appreciate there are people who may give a damn though so apologies for any offence |
Look I have tried to be reasonable and sensibly explain this to you, but you seem either unwilling or incapable of understanding the argument.
No one is conflating Israel with Judaism. But Israel is a state formed by Jewish holocaust survivors. Nearly half of the world's Jews live in Israel. Jewish people make up approximately 73.5% to 75.8% of Israel's population.
You cannot escape Israel's Jewish identity and it's connection to the Holocaust.
So when you want to attack Israel for war crimes ist is very easy to attack them with other comparable atrocities without the need for Holocaust inversion or Holocaust distortion, which is hat the comparison does (see the figures on my previous post)
By using the Holocaust to attack Israel you are making the Israelis the new Nazis and the Palestinians the new Jews.
If you attack Israel for war crimes using any one of the list of war crimes and genocides that both eireblue and I listed then you are attacking them as war criminals and as a rogue state. Which is entirely legitimate to debate. If you use the Holocaust against Jewish people by casting the victims of Nazism as perpetrators, which inherently insults Jewish history and identity, then you are attacking them as Jews. Hence why the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism includes the example "Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Naziis" as an example of antisemitic language.
I'm going around in circles now. It's been explained to you by several posters and I don't see any benefit in engaging with you any further on the subject. | |
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| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 17:03 - May 21 with 130 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:49 - May 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Look I have tried to be reasonable and sensibly explain this to you, but you seem either unwilling or incapable of understanding the argument.
No one is conflating Israel with Judaism. But Israel is a state formed by Jewish holocaust survivors. Nearly half of the world's Jews live in Israel. Jewish people make up approximately 73.5% to 75.8% of Israel's population.
You cannot escape Israel's Jewish identity and it's connection to the Holocaust.
So when you want to attack Israel for war crimes ist is very easy to attack them with other comparable atrocities without the need for Holocaust inversion or Holocaust distortion, which is hat the comparison does (see the figures on my previous post)
By using the Holocaust to attack Israel you are making the Israelis the new Nazis and the Palestinians the new Jews.
If you attack Israel for war crimes using any one of the list of war crimes and genocides that both eireblue and I listed then you are attacking them as war criminals and as a rogue state. Which is entirely legitimate to debate. If you use the Holocaust against Jewish people by casting the victims of Nazism as perpetrators, which inherently insults Jewish history and identity, then you are attacking them as Jews. Hence why the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism includes the example "Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Naziis" as an example of antisemitic language.
I'm going around in circles now. It's been explained to you by several posters and I don't see any benefit in engaging with you any further on the subject. |
“No one is conflating Israel with Judaism” and then you go on to explain how you can’t not conflate Israel with Judaism which you’d be calling out as antisemitic if someone was blaming Jews for Israel’s war crimes. I’ve got no interest in holding Jewish people accountable for the actions of Israel, only the people who are actually responsible / actively supporting it | | | |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 17:07 - May 21 with 116 views | noggin |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:36 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
73,700 so far…
I wonder what you’d do / say if you could go back to Eastern Europe when “only” 73,700 people had been murdered by the Nazis? The situation in Gaza is still ongoing with no end in sight |
Also, persecution of a people is not just a death toll. |  |
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| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 17:30 - May 21 with 60 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Not a good look when Netanyahu reprimand you on 16:36 - May 21 by wrightsrightglove |
73,700 so far…
I wonder what you’d do / say if you could go back to Eastern Europe when “only” 73,700 people had been murdered by the Nazis? The situation in Gaza is still ongoing with no end in sight |
Palestinian civilians were being murdered by both the IDF and the Settler movement long before October 2023, so the 73,700 figure needs some work, and the revisionist view that this all started with the evil, murderous, Hamas attack on Israeli civilians needs to be challenged.
And that challenge includes:
Taking due account of the role played by the Arab League attacking Israel in 1967 and 1973, in the militarisation of Israeli society and politics.
As well as the role that the Settler Movement, and successive Israeli Governments, have played in undermining the Palestinian Authority which led to the Hamas revolution against the PA in Gaza.
And while we are at it, those of us who are British should be aware that Palestinian and other Arab peoples had promises of self-determination made to them by the British Government, in exchange for wartime support. These were broken.
The roots go very deep, and nobody has room for self-righteousness. | | | |
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