| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration 08:13 - May 21 with 2160 views | StokieBlue |
Even though this isn't the case and net migration has fallen a lot as have the number of small boat crossings, voters across the political spectrum believe that isn't the case [1].
In the specific case of asylum seekers:
"The researchers found that people believe individuals seeking asylum account for 33% of immigration, when in reality it is about 9%."
Going to be very hard for anyone to cut through that narrative by the looks of it, especially when Farage lies about the subject:
"The party’s leader, Nigel Farage, has falsely claimed the drop in net migration was largely the result of British emigration – not the fall in overseas arrivals."
SB
[1]. https://www.theguardian.com/wo |  |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 08:21 - May 21 with 1413 views | Herbivore |
Hardly surprising when immigration has dominated media coverage and politics for years now, often based on half-truths or outright lies. When you create a moral panic over an issue it shouldn't come as a surprise when people hold distorted beliefs about an issue. That said, it's worrying that people's beliefs persist even when shown demonstrable evidence that shows those beliefs to be wrong. We see it on here fairly frequently. I would assume many of the people surveyed here simply haven't looked at the data so are going purely off feels, what's really worrying is when people continue to go off their feels when they've been shown evidence to the contrary. That's when a society is truly lost. |  |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 08:36 - May 21 with 1379 views | NthQldITFC |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 08:21 - May 21 by Herbivore |
Hardly surprising when immigration has dominated media coverage and politics for years now, often based on half-truths or outright lies. When you create a moral panic over an issue it shouldn't come as a surprise when people hold distorted beliefs about an issue. That said, it's worrying that people's beliefs persist even when shown demonstrable evidence that shows those beliefs to be wrong. We see it on here fairly frequently. I would assume many of the people surveyed here simply haven't looked at the data so are going purely off feels, what's really worrying is when people continue to go off their feels when they've been shown evidence to the contrary. That's when a society is truly lost. |
'I would assume many of the people surveyed here simply haven't looked at the data so are going purely off feels, what's really worrying is when people continue to go off their feels when they've been shown evidence to the contrary. That's when a society is truly lost.'
That's the reason underlying so many ways in which we're failing catastrophically in our societal evolution as an inventive species on a constrained planet. |  |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 09:28 - May 21 with 1282 views | Radlett_blue |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 08:21 - May 21 by Herbivore |
Hardly surprising when immigration has dominated media coverage and politics for years now, often based on half-truths or outright lies. When you create a moral panic over an issue it shouldn't come as a surprise when people hold distorted beliefs about an issue. That said, it's worrying that people's beliefs persist even when shown demonstrable evidence that shows those beliefs to be wrong. We see it on here fairly frequently. I would assume many of the people surveyed here simply haven't looked at the data so are going purely off feels, what's really worrying is when people continue to go off their feels when they've been shown evidence to the contrary. That's when a society is truly lost. |
We have become far more cynical as a society. This is actually very unhealthy for society - many people don't trust others, let alone politicians, people perceive violent crime is commonplace (it isn't) and given the clickbait nature of the internet driven media, it only seems likely to get worse. |  |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 09:33 - May 21 with 1255 views | wkj |
Sorting out something we're angry about has become more appealing than making something better for the future when it comes to politics. Whilst immigration is something that everyone should have a keen interest in for one reason or another, it really is a political smokescreen that covers up the greater issues that plague us. |  |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:05 - May 21 with 1155 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 09:28 - May 21 by Radlett_blue |
We have become far more cynical as a society. This is actually very unhealthy for society - many people don't trust others, let alone politicians, people perceive violent crime is commonplace (it isn't) and given the clickbait nature of the internet driven media, it only seems likely to get worse. |
I think a lot of people lack the capacity or will (or both) to critically analyse information. It's a skill we don't teach in school or even in sixth form anymore, kids are basically fed the information they need to pass exams but don't learn how to discern between the quality and trustworthiness of sources of information or how to understand potential bias in how information is presented to them. We have an older generation exposed to social media who are largely even worse equipped for the task of knowing what is genuine and reliable and what is absolute nonsense.
One of the problems with humanity is that we're obsessed with the next new thing without ever pausing to consider the consequences. It seems nobody ever really considered the capacity for the Internet and social media in particular to be used nefariously and to spread misinformation and disinformation. Attempts to regulate have come far too late and are likely to be ineffective, it's trying to put toothpaste back in the tube at this point. The same thing is now happening with the use of AI. We constantly want progress at all costs without stopping to consider how progress might actually lead to societal collapse. | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:11 - May 21 with 1145 views | NthQldITFC |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:05 - May 21 by Herbivore |
I think a lot of people lack the capacity or will (or both) to critically analyse information. It's a skill we don't teach in school or even in sixth form anymore, kids are basically fed the information they need to pass exams but don't learn how to discern between the quality and trustworthiness of sources of information or how to understand potential bias in how information is presented to them. We have an older generation exposed to social media who are largely even worse equipped for the task of knowing what is genuine and reliable and what is absolute nonsense.
One of the problems with humanity is that we're obsessed with the next new thing without ever pausing to consider the consequences. It seems nobody ever really considered the capacity for the Internet and social media in particular to be used nefariously and to spread misinformation and disinformation. Attempts to regulate have come far too late and are likely to be ineffective, it's trying to put toothpaste back in the tube at this point. The same thing is now happening with the use of AI. We constantly want progress at all costs without stopping to consider how progress might actually lead to societal collapse. |
It's a grim outlook, but I do think that there is scope for humanity to have a Damascene conversion (I'm not sure if that's exactly what I mean, but where the scales fall from your eyes? Not into the old religion thingy) but it might be far too late.
Regulation without strong and corruption-free enforcement (which seems never to really happen) just doesn't work particularly for information-based things, and never will.
So it comes down to whether as a species we can find a self-awareness and survival instinct which can overpower self-interest, greed and laziness. Probably not, or at least nowhere near in time.
It's nuts. | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:31 - May 21 with 1109 views | EddyJ |
The obsession with the yearly net change is the problem.
171,000 more people came to this country in 2025 than left it.
That number is lower than last year... great. But that's not really what "people who want lower migration" mean. It still means that there are more non-UK-born people in the UK in 2025 than there were in 2024, both in absolute terms and as a % of the population. |  | | |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:33 - May 21 with 1102 views | jayessess |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:05 - May 21 by Herbivore |
I think a lot of people lack the capacity or will (or both) to critically analyse information. It's a skill we don't teach in school or even in sixth form anymore, kids are basically fed the information they need to pass exams but don't learn how to discern between the quality and trustworthiness of sources of information or how to understand potential bias in how information is presented to them. We have an older generation exposed to social media who are largely even worse equipped for the task of knowing what is genuine and reliable and what is absolute nonsense.
One of the problems with humanity is that we're obsessed with the next new thing without ever pausing to consider the consequences. It seems nobody ever really considered the capacity for the Internet and social media in particular to be used nefariously and to spread misinformation and disinformation. Attempts to regulate have come far too late and are likely to be ineffective, it's trying to put toothpaste back in the tube at this point. The same thing is now happening with the use of AI. We constantly want progress at all costs without stopping to consider how progress might actually lead to societal collapse. |
I mean one of the main things going on here is that for all the guff about "legitimate concerns about the scale of immigration", there are lots of people for whom "immigration" as an issue is about their own hostility to seeing and hearing too many people they assume to be foreign. Something which isn't amenable to correction by public policy because it's just rooted in prejudice. |  |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:35 - May 21 with 1096 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:31 - May 21 by EddyJ |
The obsession with the yearly net change is the problem.
171,000 more people came to this country in 2025 than left it.
That number is lower than last year... great. But that's not really what "people who want lower migration" mean. It still means that there are more non-UK-born people in the UK in 2025 than there were in 2024, both in absolute terms and as a % of the population. |
So when people say they want lower immigration they mean they want no immigration? Maybe they should say that then.
Why is having more non-UK born people here an issue? As a percentage change it's tiny when net migration is less than 200k, that represents a change of less than half a percent. | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:35 - May 21 with 1095 views | NthQldITFC |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:31 - May 21 by EddyJ |
The obsession with the yearly net change is the problem.
171,000 more people came to this country in 2025 than left it.
That number is lower than last year... great. But that's not really what "people who want lower migration" mean. It still means that there are more non-UK-born people in the UK in 2025 than there were in 2024, both in absolute terms and as a % of the population. |
So if we can get the birth rate up you'd welcome more immigration too? | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:35 - May 21 with 1083 views | lowhouseblue |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:05 - May 21 by Herbivore |
I think a lot of people lack the capacity or will (or both) to critically analyse information. It's a skill we don't teach in school or even in sixth form anymore, kids are basically fed the information they need to pass exams but don't learn how to discern between the quality and trustworthiness of sources of information or how to understand potential bias in how information is presented to them. We have an older generation exposed to social media who are largely even worse equipped for the task of knowing what is genuine and reliable and what is absolute nonsense.
One of the problems with humanity is that we're obsessed with the next new thing without ever pausing to consider the consequences. It seems nobody ever really considered the capacity for the Internet and social media in particular to be used nefariously and to spread misinformation and disinformation. Attempts to regulate have come far too late and are likely to be ineffective, it's trying to put toothpaste back in the tube at this point. The same thing is now happening with the use of AI. We constantly want progress at all costs without stopping to consider how progress might actually lead to societal collapse. |
but funnily enough all this only ever applies to people you disagree with politically. it's a remarkable coincidence.
what i've come to realise in life, helped to some extent by twtd, is that the difference between people on the left and the right is their politics. on average, they don't differ in terms of their intellectual capacity, their empathy, their inherent goodness, or their decency. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:36 - May 21 with 1079 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:35 - May 21 by lowhouseblue |
but funnily enough all this only ever applies to people you disagree with politically. it's a remarkable coincidence.
what i've come to realise in life, helped to some extent by twtd, is that the difference between people on the left and the right is their politics. on average, they don't differ in terms of their intellectual capacity, their empathy, their inherent goodness, or their decency. |
Top independent thinking there, mate. You're a visionary. | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:39 - May 21 with 1055 views | lowhouseblue |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:36 - May 21 by Herbivore |
Top independent thinking there, mate. You're a visionary. |
you bang on about critical thinking skills - which of course people other than you lack. but one of those critical skills that have always been valued is self-awareness - ie the ability to critique one's own subjectivity. i'm not sure it's something you can really lecture others on. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:41 - May 21 with 1041 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:39 - May 21 by lowhouseblue |
you bang on about critical thinking skills - which of course people other than you lack. but one of those critical skills that have always been valued is self-awareness - ie the ability to critique one's own subjectivity. i'm not sure it's something you can really lecture others on. |
So much independent thinking. | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:43 - May 21 with 1020 views | lowhouseblue |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:41 - May 21 by Herbivore |
So much independent thinking. |
always much better than so little.  | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:48 - May 21 with 997 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:43 - May 21 by lowhouseblue |
always much better than so little. |
Anything to contribute in relation to the thread or are you just going to spend your energy wanging on about how terrible the left are as usual? | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:49 - May 21 with 995 views | EddyJ |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:35 - May 21 by Herbivore |
So when people say they want lower immigration they mean they want no immigration? Maybe they should say that then.
Why is having more non-UK born people here an issue? As a percentage change it's tiny when net migration is less than 200k, that represents a change of less than half a percent. |
People are not a homogenious group.
There will be a significant amount who want 0 migration.
There will be a significant amount who want net 0 migration.
There will be a significant amount who are happy with net 100k or 200k, but averaged over a longer period, so that the millions who came in during the Boris wave are not "forgotten" in the statistics just because they happened last year.
The arguments for and against migration have been done to death. There are strong arguments on both sides. I'm not going to get sucked into that. I'm merely saying that the measure we use to judge it is flawed. | | | |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:50 - May 21 with 986 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:49 - May 21 by EddyJ |
People are not a homogenious group.
There will be a significant amount who want 0 migration.
There will be a significant amount who want net 0 migration.
There will be a significant amount who are happy with net 100k or 200k, but averaged over a longer period, so that the millions who came in during the Boris wave are not "forgotten" in the statistics just because they happened last year.
The arguments for and against migration have been done to death. There are strong arguments on both sides. I'm not going to get sucked into that. I'm merely saying that the measure we use to judge it is flawed. |
Why is net migration a flawed way to measure the total number of people coming into and leaving the country? | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:55 - May 21 with 950 views | EddyJ |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:50 - May 21 by Herbivore |
Why is net migration a flawed way to measure the total number of people coming into and leaving the country? |
Because it forgets about the migrants that came in last year and are still here. Migration has a compounding effect.
Lets say 100,000 net is the palatable amount of net migration to the people of the UK.
If 1,000,000 people came in year 1, and 100,000 further come in year 2, that is celebrated as a success using net migration as the only metric. The number has come down and is now the ideal amount.
But its still a net migration of 1,100,000 across the two year period. Really, the net in year 2 should have been -800,000. But the year 1 number gets "forgotten" in the statistics. | | | |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:56 - May 21 with 948 views | Radlett_blue |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:49 - May 21 by EddyJ |
People are not a homogenious group.
There will be a significant amount who want 0 migration.
There will be a significant amount who want net 0 migration.
There will be a significant amount who are happy with net 100k or 200k, but averaged over a longer period, so that the millions who came in during the Boris wave are not "forgotten" in the statistics just because they happened last year.
The arguments for and against migration have been done to death. There are strong arguments on both sides. I'm not going to get sucked into that. I'm merely saying that the measure we use to judge it is flawed. |
What I hope most would agree is that maintaining a system where 100,000 people (give or take 50,000 depending on your source) are being housed in hotels/b&B/internment camps make no sense. Unfortunately, no one has a workable solution (throwing more money at the procedure is not a solution) so this situation will remain manna for anti-immigration activists. | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 12:03 - May 21 with 928 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:55 - May 21 by EddyJ |
Because it forgets about the migrants that came in last year and are still here. Migration has a compounding effect.
Lets say 100,000 net is the palatable amount of net migration to the people of the UK.
If 1,000,000 people came in year 1, and 100,000 further come in year 2, that is celebrated as a success using net migration as the only metric. The number has come down and is now the ideal amount.
But its still a net migration of 1,100,000 across the two year period. Really, the net in year 2 should have been -800,000. But the year 1 number gets "forgotten" in the statistics. |
It doesn't get forgotten, the data is all there. This kind of data is usually reported on annually, there's nothing especially unusual about that. | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 12:08 - May 21 with 890 views | EddyJ |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 12:03 - May 21 by Herbivore |
It doesn't get forgotten, the data is all there. This kind of data is usually reported on annually, there's nothing especially unusual about that. |
I’d say this thread is a testament to it being forgotten. It’s full of people saying “net migration has come down, why are people unhappy?” It’s the exact effect I described | | | |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 12:10 - May 21 with 878 views | lowhouseblue |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 11:48 - May 21 by Herbivore |
Anything to contribute in relation to the thread or are you just going to spend your energy wanging on about how terrible the left are as usual? |
i posted on the other immigration thread. this one's a bit repetitious. but the sight of you lecturing others on critical thinking skills was just too good to miss. i know, i know, everyone who disagrees with you is thick. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 12:27 - May 21 with 818 views | NthQldITFC |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 12:10 - May 21 by lowhouseblue |
i posted on the other immigration thread. this one's a bit repetitious. but the sight of you lecturing others on critical thinking skills was just too good to miss. i know, i know, everyone who disagrees with you is thick. |
Actually, this is the original. The other (which I started) is the repetition. But I thought (or felt) that sometimes repetition is the only way to get through the fog of misinformation. | |
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| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 14:01 - May 21 with 698 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting study on the public perception of UK net migration on 12:08 - May 21 by EddyJ |
I’d say this thread is a testament to it being forgotten. It’s full of people saying “net migration has come down, why are people unhappy?” It’s the exact effect I described |
But net migration has come down, that is a fact. Whether it is now at an acceptable level is something different people will hold different views about but it is true that net migration has come down. | |
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