| Ivan Azon 15:26 - May 25 with 6580 views | Radlett_blue |
Como have qualified for the CL next season so hard to see him getting much of a look-in there. He's 23 & has played over 140 senior games now so I doubt he's going to become a huge predator so although he'll be on offer, I hope we steer clear. |  |
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| Ivan Azon on 15:45 - May 25 with 4163 views | jayessess |
Suspect last time's failure will have concentrated a few minds with respect to the quality level we need, so I doubt we will revisit Ivan.
Devil's advocate though:
Striker is a position where players do sometimes kick on a bit later. Chris Wood was already older than Ivan is now when he came on loan to us in 2015 and his goalscoring record was no better.
Taking chances is one of those things that fans see one way and recruitment analysts tend to see another. Varies a lot season-to-season, good runs and bad runs, think a lot of clubs judge by the other attributes (Does his movement get/make chances? Is his technical level good? Can he compete physically? Does he press well? Is he fast enough/strong enough?) because they're more reproducible season by season. |  |
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| Ivan Azon on 15:47 - May 25 with 4135 views | jas0999 |
I like Azon. Likeable character. Hope he does well.
But, if we end up signing him, it would mean we’ve failed to land our top targets and will frankly, be in trouble. Hirst, you assume, will be third choice as we look to sign two strikers … one needs to be clinical. A goal scorer. |  | | |
| Ivan Azon on 15:52 - May 25 with 4088 views | JammyDodgerrr |
I'd be disappointed if we didn't sign him, to be honest. He improved drastically over the course of the season and his movement is extremely good. A good finishing coach can be brought in to help with the negative side of his game. I like him a lot. |  |
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| Ivan Azon on 15:58 - May 25 with 4028 views | Radlett_blue |
| Ivan Azon on 15:45 - May 25 by jayessess |
Suspect last time's failure will have concentrated a few minds with respect to the quality level we need, so I doubt we will revisit Ivan.
Devil's advocate though:
Striker is a position where players do sometimes kick on a bit later. Chris Wood was already older than Ivan is now when he came on loan to us in 2015 and his goalscoring record was no better.
Taking chances is one of those things that fans see one way and recruitment analysts tend to see another. Varies a lot season-to-season, good runs and bad runs, think a lot of clubs judge by the other attributes (Does his movement get/make chances? Is his technical level good? Can he compete physically? Does he press well? Is he fast enough/strong enough?) because they're more reproducible season by season. |
McKenna was (sensibly) favouring Azon over Hirst as starting no.9 more often than not as Azon worked the channels well & held the ball up better than Hirst. However, his finishing is still a big blot. If we are to have a decent chance of staying up next season, I think we need 2 strikers who are better than Hirst (one will probably be a PL veteran like Callum Wilson). | |
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| Ivan Azon on 15:58 - May 25 with 4028 views | burnbudgiesburn |
I like him, but what was his fee supposed to be before we renegotiated it into a non-obligation loan? £10m wasn't it? Not for me at that price.
£2-3m as a project/3rd striker, sure. | | | |
| Ivan Azon on 16:04 - May 25 with 3941 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ivan Azon on 15:58 - May 25 by burnbudgiesburn |
I like him, but what was his fee supposed to be before we renegotiated it into a non-obligation loan? £10m wasn't it? Not for me at that price.
£2-3m as a project/3rd striker, sure. |
I would suggest that current fees mean any 3rd choice striker will cost in the region of £10M. A first choice is £20M generally.
Either he is worth the gamble or he isn't. For me, he is fine as a 3rd choice but, if we didn't sign someone better as well, I would be concerned. |  |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:15 - May 25 with 3873 views | Radlett_blue |
| Ivan Azon on 16:04 - May 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I would suggest that current fees mean any 3rd choice striker will cost in the region of £10M. A first choice is £20M generally.
Either he is worth the gamble or he isn't. For me, he is fine as a 3rd choice but, if we didn't sign someone better as well, I would be concerned. |
If Hirst & Azon are our 2 back up strikers next season, we will be no better off than our last attempt at PL survival, even assuming we can get someone in as good as Delap. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:15 - May 25 with 3872 views | jayessess |
| Ivan Azon on 15:58 - May 25 by Radlett_blue |
McKenna was (sensibly) favouring Azon over Hirst as starting no.9 more often than not as Azon worked the channels well & held the ball up better than Hirst. However, his finishing is still a big blot. If we are to have a decent chance of staying up next season, I think we need 2 strikers who are better than Hirst (one will probably be a PL veteran like Callum Wilson). |
Suppose it comes down to whether you take his finishing performance this season as definitive. His finishing numbers for Zaragoza last season were respectable enough - 7 goals from 48 shots. If he'd managed that this season, he'd have hit 11 for us in the equivalent of 19 full games. Could be that LaLiga2 to the Championship was a jump, could be just a bit of random variation.
Personally don't think his all-round game was *so* brilliant that you'd take a risk to find out this particular season, as a promoted club in the Premier League. Could see the case for it though. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:18 - May 25 with 3839 views | Jeff_winger |
| Ivan Azon on 16:15 - May 25 by Radlett_blue |
If Hirst & Azon are our 2 back up strikers next season, we will be no better off than our last attempt at PL survival, even assuming we can get someone in as good as Delap. |
Last time we played Ali Al hamadi , there was a spell he came on most games |  | | |
| Ivan Azon on 16:20 - May 25 with 3798 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ivan Azon on 16:15 - May 25 by Radlett_blue |
If Hirst & Azon are our 2 back up strikers next season, we will be no better off than our last attempt at PL survival, even assuming we can get someone in as good as Delap. |
I think Azon is far better already than Al Hamadi was. I also think we have far more goals in us from other areas than we had last time Hirst played. However, we do need someone of at least the level of Delap in as first choice. There is little between Hirst and Azon for me (as shown by the fact Azon was playing ahead of Hirst at the end of the season).
In an ideal world we sign two strikers significantly better than Hirst and Azon. However, considering how difficult we have found it to sign one over multiple windows now, I wouldn't hold my breath that we will. I fear that we may set our sights too high and end up with Azon being this time's version of Keiffer Moore. He would have made us far better than Al Hamadi did. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:21 - May 25 with 3813 views | Illinoisblue |
| Ivan Azon on 15:52 - May 25 by JammyDodgerrr |
I'd be disappointed if we didn't sign him, to be honest. He improved drastically over the course of the season and his movement is extremely good. A good finishing coach can be brought in to help with the negative side of his game. I like him a lot. |
But if he needs six really good chances to score one goal in the championship how we do think that ratio is going to improve with less chances in a substantially harder league? |  |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:23 - May 25 with 3777 views | NthQldITFC |
I'd be very happy to see him back. Most of his game is certainly up to backup striker standards at PL, the bits that aren't are habits rather than lack of skills, so he's got some fairly easy to fix improvements to be made and he's into our way of playing.
Add to that he seems to have an excellent attitude, constantly positive, and I'd be happy if we spent £10m or so on him, as long as we bring in at least another one too. |  |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:25 - May 25 with 3764 views | Radlett_blue |
| Ivan Azon on 16:20 - May 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I think Azon is far better already than Al Hamadi was. I also think we have far more goals in us from other areas than we had last time Hirst played. However, we do need someone of at least the level of Delap in as first choice. There is little between Hirst and Azon for me (as shown by the fact Azon was playing ahead of Hirst at the end of the season).
In an ideal world we sign two strikers significantly better than Hirst and Azon. However, considering how difficult we have found it to sign one over multiple windows now, I wouldn't hold my breath that we will. I fear that we may set our sights too high and end up with Azon being this time's version of Keiffer Moore. He would have made us far better than Al Hamadi did. |
Yes Hamadi was nowhere near up to PL standard & probably isn't even a Championship player. WE were left with him as we failed to get our main striker targets. Being close to the bottom of the food chain, this may happen again. I would love us to bring in 1 decent striker before pre season starts. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:26 - May 25 with 3735 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ivan Azon on 16:21 - May 25 by Illinoisblue |
But if he needs six really good chances to score one goal in the championship how we do think that ratio is going to improve with less chances in a substantially harder league? |
By improving his finishing judging by the comment about a good finishing coach.
I think Azon was a bit unfortunate to have as poor finishing stats as he did. As well as missing some really good chances (Hirst has done too), Azon had some fantastic saves against him.
It is funny how some players with very ordinary goalscoring records can improve no end. Murphy and McGoldrick spring to mind. The latter especially (Forest fans were scathing about him when we signed him). I think Marcus Stewart spoke about working with a psychologist improved his finishing the season we went up. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:27 - May 25 with 3742 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Ivan Azon on 15:52 - May 25 by JammyDodgerrr |
I'd be disappointed if we didn't sign him, to be honest. He improved drastically over the course of the season and his movement is extremely good. A good finishing coach can be brought in to help with the negative side of his game. I like him a lot. |
So Leeds weren’t happy going to go into the PL with Piroe but we are bringing in a finishing coach to give it a shot with Azon?
There’s been strikers that have destroyed the Champ that haven’t been able to cut it in PL, Archer is another one that comes to mind and Armstrong the last time Southampton were up there.
If Hirst or Azon get many minutes, we will be in trouble. I guess we will keep one (likely Hirst as he is our player) but they shouldn’t really be featuring much or something has gone very wrong. [Post edited 25 May 16:29]
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| Ivan Azon on 16:30 - May 25 with 3692 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ivan Azon on 16:25 - May 25 by Radlett_blue |
Yes Hamadi was nowhere near up to PL standard & probably isn't even a Championship player. WE were left with him as we failed to get our main striker targets. Being close to the bottom of the food chain, this may happen again. I would love us to bring in 1 decent striker before pre season starts. |
So, immediately Azon as third choice is an improvement on last time! | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:33 - May 25 with 3689 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Ivan Azon on 16:26 - May 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
By improving his finishing judging by the comment about a good finishing coach.
I think Azon was a bit unfortunate to have as poor finishing stats as he did. As well as missing some really good chances (Hirst has done too), Azon had some fantastic saves against him.
It is funny how some players with very ordinary goalscoring records can improve no end. Murphy and McGoldrick spring to mind. The latter especially (Forest fans were scathing about him when we signed him). I think Marcus Stewart spoke about working with a psychologist improved his finishing the season we went up. |
He’s absolutely no where near PL level. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:35 - May 25 with 3679 views | NthQldITFC |
| Ivan Azon on 16:26 - May 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
By improving his finishing judging by the comment about a good finishing coach.
I think Azon was a bit unfortunate to have as poor finishing stats as he did. As well as missing some really good chances (Hirst has done too), Azon had some fantastic saves against him.
It is funny how some players with very ordinary goalscoring records can improve no end. Murphy and McGoldrick spring to mind. The latter especially (Forest fans were scathing about him when we signed him). I think Marcus Stewart spoke about working with a psychologist improved his finishing the season we went up. |
I think you're bang on with that last paragraph. Working with a sports psychologist specifically on the moment of shooting and the stance at that point could turn Ivan into a very decent PL forward. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:39 - May 25 with 3625 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
And neither were any of those three when we signed them! Yet all of them ended up being better than third choice level in the Premier League.
Azon has potential and I would have no problem with him. But, as I said, we also need to sign better.
Do you honestly see us signing 3 strikers better than Azon (or think Hirst and/or Akpom are)? | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:41 - May 25 with 3614 views | NthQldITFC |
Incorrect. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:42 - May 25 with 3595 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Ivan Azon on 16:35 - May 25 by NthQldITFC |
I think you're bang on with that last paragraph. Working with a sports psychologist specifically on the moment of shooting and the stance at that point could turn Ivan into a very decent PL forward. |
Why on earth would we give Azon a PL contract as a third striker? Are we selling Hirst to make this happen? We already have 7M and wages allocated to Akpom that will be difficult to do anything with that provides us a favorable outcome in the immediate.
I guess he would cost another 4-5M now we went up. If you’re telling me we will keep them both as back ups and just get one more in that’s absolutely insane at PL level.
Piroe, Archer, Armstrong couldn’t make it in the PL but Azon will? | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:45 - May 25 with 3546 views | Radlett_blue |
| Ivan Azon on 16:42 - May 25 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Why on earth would we give Azon a PL contract as a third striker? Are we selling Hirst to make this happen? We already have 7M and wages allocated to Akpom that will be difficult to do anything with that provides us a favorable outcome in the immediate.
I guess he would cost another 4-5M now we went up. If you’re telling me we will keep them both as back ups and just get one more in that’s absolutely insane at PL level.
Piroe, Archer, Armstrong couldn’t make it in the PL but Azon will? |
We will sell Akpom at a loss (hard as he now has a 3 year contract) or more likely loan him out to a Championship club. Brum might fancy him still or Boro might welcome him back. Worst case is he becomes our #3 striker. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:46 - May 25 with 3511 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ivan Azon on 16:27 - May 25 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
So Leeds weren’t happy going to go into the PL with Piroe but we are bringing in a finishing coach to give it a shot with Azon?
There’s been strikers that have destroyed the Champ that haven’t been able to cut it in PL, Archer is another one that comes to mind and Armstrong the last time Southampton were up there.
If Hirst or Azon get many minutes, we will be in trouble. I guess we will keep one (likely Hirst as he is our player) but they shouldn’t really be featuring much or something has gone very wrong. [Post edited 25 May 16:29]
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That's Joel Piroe who played 14 times for Leeds in the Premier League last season?
None of us is suggesting we should look to Azon or Hirst as first choice. | |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:47 - May 25 with 3514 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ivan Azon on 15:47 - May 25 by jas0999 |
I like Azon. Likeable character. Hope he does well.
But, if we end up signing him, it would mean we’ve failed to land our top targets and will frankly, be in trouble. Hirst, you assume, will be third choice as we look to sign two strikers … one needs to be clinical. A goal scorer. |
Yes, seems like a nice chap but I'd be disappointed if we're not aiming a lot higher. He's not ideal for that lone striker role, just from the physicality side. And that's before we get on to his lack of finishing. He's not bad per se and there's something there, especially with his energy, but he's upper Championship at best at the moment. And to nail down a position at that level he'll need to improve his finishing. As he was in Spain, he's a second division player. |  |
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| Ivan Azon on 16:48 - May 25 with 3508 views | NthQldITFC |
| Ivan Azon on 16:42 - May 25 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Why on earth would we give Azon a PL contract as a third striker? Are we selling Hirst to make this happen? We already have 7M and wages allocated to Akpom that will be difficult to do anything with that provides us a favorable outcome in the immediate.
I guess he would cost another 4-5M now we went up. If you’re telling me we will keep them both as back ups and just get one more in that’s absolutely insane at PL level.
Piroe, Archer, Armstrong couldn’t make it in the PL but Azon will? |
I presume Akpom will go out on loan unless he shows really well in pre-season. Azon is ahead of Hirst for me, and still improving. He has one big weakness in his game, but it's a heat of the moment 'habit' thing rather than a specific lack of ability in his skillset.
I'd ideally like two more strikers in. Can't remember if we ever tried it, but I think Azon could potentially do a job in the 10 role too, so carrying him, Hirst (probably) plus two more would not be out of the question. | |
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