| Starmer set to resign on Monday 21:25 - Jun 20 with 6296 views | SitfcB |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 18:55 - Jun 21 with 427 views | radiogaga |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 08:36 - Jun 21 by redrickstuhaart |
This is the fascinating thing.
I genuinely don't understand what has driven so much hate for him, other than social media and the right wing press. |
I think you’ve nailed it here, with those 2 things. To think the margin for error that the same people allowed Starmer’s predecessors, I no longer have any confidence in our political system, or our electorate for that matter. |  |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 19:04 - Jun 21 with 410 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 18:01 - Jun 21 by jasondozzell |
Breathtaking!
At a certain point you have to admire the audacity of a party that told it's membership to f off but now demand that you vote for them. |
Burnham wants PR.
Labour are the only party who can keep out reform.
Choose. |  |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 19:05 - Jun 21 with 407 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 18:15 - Jun 21 by wrightsrightglove |
Banging the drum for the ‘least bad alternative to Reform’ is a crushing indictment of UK politics. Suggesting you’d blame someone for not voting for the ‘least bad alternative’ (in your opinion) is a crushing indictment of your politics. If Labour let Reform into government, there is no-one to blame other than themselves |
It may well be.
But the alternative right now is Farage.
Burnham wants PR. That is an actual solution. [Post edited 21 Jun 19:05]
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 19:22 - Jun 21 with 366 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 19:05 - Jun 21 by redrickstuhaart |
It may well be.
But the alternative right now is Farage.
Burnham wants PR. That is an actual solution. [Post edited 21 Jun 19:05]
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PR will also ensure Labour never get another majority. So he won’t be introducing PR.
Want to stop reform? Win the argument. |  |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 19:24 - Jun 21 with 375 views | NthQldITFC |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 18:01 - Jun 21 by jasondozzell |
Breathtaking!
At a certain point you have to admire the audacity of a party that told it's membership to f off but now demand that you vote for them. |
I guess it comes down to practicalities and compromise for a 'safe' way out, or sticking more rigidly to principles with a more risky outcome - risk management.
I'd certainly like Burnham to be a bit further left on some issues, but even if he turns out to be far more centrist than I hope, the fact that his personality/presentation appeals to a portion of potential Ref*rm voters (disappointing though it is that that should matter) is probably the biggest issue - and therefore I'm all for him.
The party that told its membership (effectively) to f off is no longer the same party, and even if it was it's practicalities over personal affront again for me - all the way. |  |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 19:30 - Jun 21 with 362 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 19:24 - Jun 21 by NthQldITFC |
I guess it comes down to practicalities and compromise for a 'safe' way out, or sticking more rigidly to principles with a more risky outcome - risk management.
I'd certainly like Burnham to be a bit further left on some issues, but even if he turns out to be far more centrist than I hope, the fact that his personality/presentation appeals to a portion of potential Ref*rm voters (disappointing though it is that that should matter) is probably the biggest issue - and therefore I'm all for him.
The party that told its membership (effectively) to f off is no longer the same party, and even if it was it's practicalities over personal affront again for me - all the way. |
Bad idea to extrapolate the Makerfield result. It was a unique seat and conditions favourable to Burnham. The race to watch is the Manchester mayoral election now.
I will vote for anyone with principles and policies. Personality and presentation shouldn't come into it.
And don't agree it's not the same party. It is. Josh Simons stepped aside for him! Fool me once... |  | | |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:13 - Jun 21 with 300 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 18:15 - Jun 21 by wrightsrightglove |
Banging the drum for the ‘least bad alternative to Reform’ is a crushing indictment of UK politics. Suggesting you’d blame someone for not voting for the ‘least bad alternative’ (in your opinion) is a crushing indictment of your politics. If Labour let Reform into government, there is no-one to blame other than themselves |
It's not really an "indictment of UK politics" specifically though, so much as a depressing snapshot of where the world is. I'm sure we'd all love a perfect lefty shangri-la, but currently, "UK politics" is pretty much about dispelling whatever corrupt lie the far right have seeded the internet with this week, and trying to make the gullible understand that legally accepting hospitality as an MP and declaring it correctly is not the same as being personally sponsored by crypto billionaires to further their interests first and foremost, before you even get the chance to try to win them around to your manifesto. It's not just "UK politics", it's everywhere. Hopefully it'll change over time when the bulk of the voting populace is properly educated to source-check and recognise when they're being lied to, but until then, priority #1 is surely to keep the demons out by whatever means necessary, no? | | | |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:15 - Jun 21 with 296 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:13 - Jun 21 by FoghornGleghorn |
It's not really an "indictment of UK politics" specifically though, so much as a depressing snapshot of where the world is. I'm sure we'd all love a perfect lefty shangri-la, but currently, "UK politics" is pretty much about dispelling whatever corrupt lie the far right have seeded the internet with this week, and trying to make the gullible understand that legally accepting hospitality as an MP and declaring it correctly is not the same as being personally sponsored by crypto billionaires to further their interests first and foremost, before you even get the chance to try to win them around to your manifesto. It's not just "UK politics", it's everywhere. Hopefully it'll change over time when the bulk of the voting populace is properly educated to source-check and recognise when they're being lied to, but until then, priority #1 is surely to keep the demons out by whatever means necessary, no? |
Unfortunately, personality, memes, social media et al are more influential thank facts or policies currently. | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:19 - Jun 21 with 280 views | BackToRussia |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:15 - Jun 21 by redrickstuhaart |
Unfortunately, personality, memes, social media et al are more influential thank facts or policies currently. |
With all due respect, that is utter nonsense. People are crying out for a positive, front-foot regimen of policies. What people do not respond to is blue Labour trying to play 4D chess to defeat Reform, and ending up complete non-entities. |  |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:20 - Jun 21 with 277 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:13 - Jun 21 by FoghornGleghorn |
It's not really an "indictment of UK politics" specifically though, so much as a depressing snapshot of where the world is. I'm sure we'd all love a perfect lefty shangri-la, but currently, "UK politics" is pretty much about dispelling whatever corrupt lie the far right have seeded the internet with this week, and trying to make the gullible understand that legally accepting hospitality as an MP and declaring it correctly is not the same as being personally sponsored by crypto billionaires to further their interests first and foremost, before you even get the chance to try to win them around to your manifesto. It's not just "UK politics", it's everywhere. Hopefully it'll change over time when the bulk of the voting populace is properly educated to source-check and recognise when they're being lied to, but until then, priority #1 is surely to keep the demons out by whatever means necessary, no? |
But the very people you are suggesting that will keep the demons out are the people that have cleared the way for them and will continue to do so. | | | |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:20 - Jun 21 with 274 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:19 - Jun 21 by BackToRussia |
With all due respect, that is utter nonsense. People are crying out for a positive, front-foot regimen of policies. What people do not respond to is blue Labour trying to play 4D chess to defeat Reform, and ending up complete non-entities. |
Wish I could give this 100 uppies.
Unsure how the centrists cannot see this.
It's been pretty obvious for a decade plus now. | | | |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:23 - Jun 21 with 266 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:20 - Jun 21 by jasondozzell |
But the very people you are suggesting that will keep the demons out are the people that have cleared the way for them and will continue to do so. |
You can keep saying that. But THE ALTERNATIVE IS FARAGE. You seem to think that will serve the labour centrists right. But what about our nation and the people who need protection from fascist nonsense? | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:24 - Jun 21 with 264 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:19 - Jun 21 by BackToRussia |
With all due respect, that is utter nonsense. People are crying out for a positive, front-foot regimen of policies. What people do not respond to is blue Labour trying to play 4D chess to defeat Reform, and ending up complete non-entities. |
Its not nonsense at all. It accepts and recognises what you say. But what is the alternative? | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:25 - Jun 21 with 263 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:19 - Jun 21 by BackToRussia |
With all due respect, that is utter nonsense. People are crying out for a positive, front-foot regimen of policies. What people do not respond to is blue Labour trying to play 4D chess to defeat Reform, and ending up complete non-entities. |
Data source: There are this many small boat crossings.
Reform: THIS IS A MASSIVE PROBLEM THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS FAILING TO FIX.
People: WE BELIEVE THE DATA AND WE HATE THE GOVERNMENT FOR FAILING TO FIX IT.
Government: <does stuff>
The same data source: There are 40% fewer small boat crossings than there were a year ago.
Reform: .....
People: yeah we don't believe the data | | | |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:25 - Jun 21 with 261 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:23 - Jun 21 by redrickstuhaart |
You can keep saying that. But THE ALTERNATIVE IS FARAGE. You seem to think that will serve the labour centrists right. But what about our nation and the people who need protection from fascist nonsense? |
I will not be guilt tripped into voting for a party that told me to f off and that is ghoulish.
Win my vote if you want it! | | | |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:27 - Jun 21 with 245 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:25 - Jun 21 by jasondozzell |
I will not be guilt tripped into voting for a party that told me to f off and that is ghoulish.
Win my vote if you want it! |
Then don't complain when people point out the fact that taking votes from labour is what will get Farage in. And that Burnham wants PR which will give you a much better option in future. | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:28 - Jun 21 with 240 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:25 - Jun 21 by FoghornGleghorn |
Data source: There are this many small boat crossings.
Reform: THIS IS A MASSIVE PROBLEM THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS FAILING TO FIX.
People: WE BELIEVE THE DATA AND WE HATE THE GOVERNMENT FOR FAILING TO FIX IT.
Government: <does stuff>
The same data source: There are 40% fewer small boat crossings than there were a year ago.
Reform: .....
People: yeah we don't believe the data |
The country is in crisis.
Small dashboard data improvements is very end of 90s New Labour. It's not going to cut it.
We need a politics that can imagine a different future for this country.
Competent managerialism is not enough. | | | |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:29 - Jun 21 with 231 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:27 - Jun 21 by redrickstuhaart |
Then don't complain when people point out the fact that taking votes from labour is what will get Farage in. And that Burnham wants PR which will give you a much better option in future. |
I'm not taking votes from Labour and with all due respect it's unbelievably arrogant and condescending to say that I am. My vote is my vote! | | | |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:30 - Jun 21 with 227 views | BackToRussia |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:24 - Jun 21 by redrickstuhaart |
Its not nonsense at all. It accepts and recognises what you say. But what is the alternative? |
I just suggested an alternative. A positive, proactive set of policies that give people hope and lead them away from the temptation of racist right wing parties. They clearly have not gone down that road, and instead opted for a confused mix of "pragmatic" policies that people don't even know about, and apeing right wing rhetoric without any of the charisma and pull that people like Farage et al clearly seem to have with parts of the electorate at the moment.
Starmer just sums up the whole story of the last few years, a weather vane who will go left when it suits him and then right again when it suits. People see through that! And they will probably see through Burnham pretty quickly too. | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:33 - Jun 21 with 213 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:30 - Jun 21 by BackToRussia |
I just suggested an alternative. A positive, proactive set of policies that give people hope and lead them away from the temptation of racist right wing parties. They clearly have not gone down that road, and instead opted for a confused mix of "pragmatic" policies that people don't even know about, and apeing right wing rhetoric without any of the charisma and pull that people like Farage et al clearly seem to have with parts of the electorate at the moment.
Starmer just sums up the whole story of the last few years, a weather vane who will go left when it suits him and then right again when it suits. People see through that! And they will probably see through Burnham pretty quickly too. |
But thats not happening. Though Burnham is closer to that. So what is your choice? | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:34 - Jun 21 with 208 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:29 - Jun 21 by jasondozzell |
I'm not taking votes from Labour and with all due respect it's unbelievably arrogant and condescending to say that I am. My vote is my vote! |
Of course you are. A vote for a party that cannot win, is a vote which could keep farage out. A vote for Burnham pushes PR, which means your future votes could actually mean something. | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:38 - Jun 21 with 192 views | BackToRussia |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:33 - Jun 21 by redrickstuhaart |
But thats not happening. Though Burnham is closer to that. So what is your choice? |
Green. | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:41 - Jun 21 with 186 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:38 - Jun 21 by BackToRussia |
Green. |
Which allows Farage in, quite possibly.
The left were always blind to pragmatism.
Why not Burnham, who could win and give us PR, allowing Greens to actually have influence? | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:44 - Jun 21 with 183 views | BackToRussia |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:41 - Jun 21 by redrickstuhaart |
Which allows Farage in, quite possibly.
The left were always blind to pragmatism.
Why not Burnham, who could win and give us PR, allowing Greens to actually have influence? |
It is a pretty common strategy for Labour centrists to wave the prospect as PR as a possibility when they want to get elected, and then pulling up the drawbridge once they get elected. Didn't Starmer do the same thing?
The problem with this entire strategy is that Labour have been imitating Reform, so the choice isn't actually stark any more! People will just abandon them for clearer options like Green and Reform. It's a dereliction of the basic duty of a party, to distinguish itself from others. | |
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| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:47 - Jun 21 with 168 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer set to resign on Monday on 20:44 - Jun 21 by BackToRussia |
It is a pretty common strategy for Labour centrists to wave the prospect as PR as a possibility when they want to get elected, and then pulling up the drawbridge once they get elected. Didn't Starmer do the same thing?
The problem with this entire strategy is that Labour have been imitating Reform, so the choice isn't actually stark any more! People will just abandon them for clearer options like Green and Reform. It's a dereliction of the basic duty of a party, to distinguish itself from others. |
No he didnt. Burnham has been a proponent for years.
Frankly we all need to do whatever we can to ensure that Farage cant take advantage of all the split loyalties and chaos in British politics now. Its alarming that people's tribalism sets them against that obvious goal. | |
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