| ‘Two Year Kier’ 05:25 - Jun 23 with 14379 views | Benters |
Heard that one this morning  |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 13:29 - Jun 25 with 923 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 23:09 - Jun 24 by positivity |
finally! i agree with most of that, and voted for it in 2019, but millions more voted against it.
so absolutely none of it came to pass.
by compromising and taking people with you, you might stand more chance of acually changing things. centrists are by far the largest part of the electorate, you need to reach out to them, not insult them continually! |
This is all great except that the centre isn't any longer the largest part of the electorate.
That may have been true in 1997.
But not anymore. The centre has collapsed.
Hence loveless landslide, Starmer's vote share etc.
The Labour party now represents a tiny professional managerial class.
Centrism, like New Labour, has had its day. We can't keep trying to reanimate its corpse just because people who think they have good taste in kitchen design, like Elbow and fondly remember the 90s want all the noise to go away. [Post edited 25 Jun 13:30]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 13:32 - Jun 25 with 912 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 10:01 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
It isn't 'right wing rhetoric', it's an economic and social effect. There is some empirical evidence supporting it, including me!
I do like the use of Sandinavia when it suits, as if countries are comparable based on single plucked out phrases.
How about the Swedish Democrats polling 20%, a party formed from members of the SS?
Or Norway drilling for oil?
Or that they have completely abolished inheritance tax in Sweden and Norway?
Assume you are aware of these things? |
None of those things are relevant to the point made. Which is that higher taxation does not reach a point where it automatically reduces work significantly.
It is right wing rhetoric same as the nonsense about millionaires leaving. |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 13:37 - Jun 25 with 875 views | Swansea_Blue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:33 - Jun 25 by leitrimblue |
Come on  , as if people are just gonna stop working if tax is raised a bit.
'Sorry love, I know the kids are hungry but my tax as been raised by 20 quid so Im refusing to work'  |
I had a boss once who reckoned it was pointless increasing salaries or paying bonuses because you end up having to pay more tax. It’s a similar mindset. |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:00 - Jun 25 with 825 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 13:32 - Jun 25 by redrickstuhaart |
None of those things are relevant to the point made. Which is that higher taxation does not reach a point where it automatically reduces work significantly.
It is right wing rhetoric same as the nonsense about millionaires leaving. |
More millionaires are leaving. Although I wouldn’t necessarily fit a future trend or causal impact just yet
Is there data to support the tax take v rate of tax argument you are making? There will be a point where the balance tips.
People who want to pay more tax, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:08 - Jun 25 with 800 views | leitrimblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:00 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
More millionaires are leaving. Although I wouldn’t necessarily fit a future trend or causal impact just yet
Is there data to support the tax take v rate of tax argument you are making? There will be a point where the balance tips.
People who want to pay more tax, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. |
God riddance to um. If they won't live under our rules or pay their correct levels off tax their welcome to Iive somewhere else. As long as they pay the exit tax..
Personally I wouldn't allow them re-entry into the country for at east 10 years after their exit. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:13 - Jun 25 with 783 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:08 - Jun 25 by leitrimblue |
God riddance to um. If they won't live under our rules or pay their correct levels off tax their welcome to Iive somewhere else. As long as they pay the exit tax..
Personally I wouldn't allow them re-entry into the country for at east 10 years after their exit. |
It definitely helps reduce inequality. By making everyone poor. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:17 - Jun 25 with 760 views | leitrimblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:13 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
It definitely helps reduce inequality. By making everyone poor. |
Argh, come on, I'm not sure paying a little more tax is gonna leave you poor.
My condolences if it would [Post edited 25 Jun 14:18]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:21 - Jun 25 with 741 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 13:29 - Jun 25 by jasondozzell |
This is all great except that the centre isn't any longer the largest part of the electorate.
That may have been true in 1997.
But not anymore. The centre has collapsed.
Hence loveless landslide, Starmer's vote share etc.
The Labour party now represents a tiny professional managerial class.
Centrism, like New Labour, has had its day. We can't keep trying to reanimate its corpse just because people who think they have good taste in kitchen design, like Elbow and fondly remember the 90s want all the noise to go away. [Post edited 25 Jun 13:30]
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the centre is still the majority.
people are still, when push comes to shove, voting against the extremes, hence the massive vote for boris about corbyn and for burnham against reform.
corbynism, like New Labour, has had its day. we can't keep trying to reanimate its corpse just because people who think they have good taste in alfalfa sprouts, like billy bragg and fondly remember the 70s want all the noise to go away!
we need a progression that people will vote for, rather than your "perfect solution" which the majority will vote against. perfect is the enemy of good.
i'd rather have good than let in traitors like reform who will destroy our society and what british value we have left | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:27 - Jun 25 with 728 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:21 - Jun 25 by positivity |
the centre is still the majority.
people are still, when push comes to shove, voting against the extremes, hence the massive vote for boris about corbyn and for burnham against reform.
corbynism, like New Labour, has had its day. we can't keep trying to reanimate its corpse just because people who think they have good taste in alfalfa sprouts, like billy bragg and fondly remember the 70s want all the noise to go away!
we need a progression that people will vote for, rather than your "perfect solution" which the majority will vote against. perfect is the enemy of good.
i'd rather have good than let in traitors like reform who will destroy our society and what british value we have left |
You don’t know that’s what would happen if Reform got in.
Surely that is what you and your Special Branch friend accused me of spreading ‘disinformation’?
[Post edited 25 Jun 14:54]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:30 - Jun 25 with 719 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:21 - Jun 25 by positivity |
the centre is still the majority.
people are still, when push comes to shove, voting against the extremes, hence the massive vote for boris about corbyn and for burnham against reform.
corbynism, like New Labour, has had its day. we can't keep trying to reanimate its corpse just because people who think they have good taste in alfalfa sprouts, like billy bragg and fondly remember the 70s want all the noise to go away!
we need a progression that people will vote for, rather than your "perfect solution" which the majority will vote against. perfect is the enemy of good.
i'd rather have good than let in traitors like reform who will destroy our society and what british value we have left |
I enjoyed that regarding the 70’s!
Stagflation, three day week, unemployment, currency issues, uncompetitive industry.
Made all the worse by bot being able to blame Thatcher [Post edited 25 Jun 14:40]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:35 - Jun 25 with 701 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:21 - Jun 25 by positivity |
the centre is still the majority.
people are still, when push comes to shove, voting against the extremes, hence the massive vote for boris about corbyn and for burnham against reform.
corbynism, like New Labour, has had its day. we can't keep trying to reanimate its corpse just because people who think they have good taste in alfalfa sprouts, like billy bragg and fondly remember the 70s want all the noise to go away!
we need a progression that people will vote for, rather than your "perfect solution" which the majority will vote against. perfect is the enemy of good.
i'd rather have good than let in traitors like reform who will destroy our society and what british value we have left |
It's a good try, especially with the alfalfa sprouts, but I think you're even trying to convince yourself.
The return to the 70s schtick worked for a period I guess when economy boomed and end of history seemed set. But now I think people would look at it and go, hang on, their rivers were cleaner, you could support a family on one salary, houses were within reach.
I'm not advocating for a perfect solution. We just need principles. We've had two years of the same old triangulation routine and it's been a disaster.
Burnham isn't the answer. Makerfield was always going to choose him. It won't translate across the country. If people just want a more charismatic version of Starmer because they think the latter was doing a good job then I'm afraid they are going to be shocked by what happens.
Plus I'm not sure there are any British values. I mean we've become a hollowed out services industry addicted to our phones, individualism and ordering deliveroo. It's going to take some sorting out.
The centrists who threw the mother of all tantrums to get their hand back on the tiller have to decide at this crucial juncture: are we carrying on with this failed routine or are we actually gonna wake up? Because if they don't it's going only one way.
As Curtis says, do you really want change? Or do you just want the banks to be a bit nicer? | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:36 - Jun 25 with 699 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:27 - Jun 25 by Benters |
You don’t know that’s what would happen if Reform got in.
Surely that is what you and your Special Branch friend accused me of spreading ‘disinformation’?
[Post edited 25 Jun 14:54]
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all the available evidence of nige says that is exactly what will happen.
-as a public school kid he bullied jewish kids and black kids, wanted them all to be gassed or deported
-he calls for rage on the streets when someone white is attacked by someone from a minority group
-he is utterly silent when the opposite happens.
why on earth would it be different when he has power? as we've seen with trump, this kind of politician who's only in it for themself will only breed more division and hatred | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:38 - Jun 25 with 692 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:35 - Jun 25 by jasondozzell |
It's a good try, especially with the alfalfa sprouts, but I think you're even trying to convince yourself.
The return to the 70s schtick worked for a period I guess when economy boomed and end of history seemed set. But now I think people would look at it and go, hang on, their rivers were cleaner, you could support a family on one salary, houses were within reach.
I'm not advocating for a perfect solution. We just need principles. We've had two years of the same old triangulation routine and it's been a disaster.
Burnham isn't the answer. Makerfield was always going to choose him. It won't translate across the country. If people just want a more charismatic version of Starmer because they think the latter was doing a good job then I'm afraid they are going to be shocked by what happens.
Plus I'm not sure there are any British values. I mean we've become a hollowed out services industry addicted to our phones, individualism and ordering deliveroo. It's going to take some sorting out.
The centrists who threw the mother of all tantrums to get their hand back on the tiller have to decide at this crucial juncture: are we carrying on with this failed routine or are we actually gonna wake up? Because if they don't it's going only one way.
As Curtis says, do you really want change? Or do you just want the banks to be a bit nicer? |
of course we want change, we just want it to be deliverable; your utopian vision isn't going to happen in a democracy all in one go.
anyone who thinks it could is utterly naive | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:46 - Jun 25 with 684 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:36 - Jun 25 by positivity |
all the available evidence of nige says that is exactly what will happen.
-as a public school kid he bullied jewish kids and black kids, wanted them all to be gassed or deported
-he calls for rage on the streets when someone white is attacked by someone from a minority group
-he is utterly silent when the opposite happens.
why on earth would it be different when he has power? as we've seen with trump, this kind of politician who's only in it for themself will only breed more division and hatred |
Farage is a talented politician. Don't make the same mistake they made in the states with Kamala. You've got to seek to understand what it is that makes him popular. If you label all Reform voters as racist then you'll make the same mistake they made in US. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:51 - Jun 25 with 673 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:38 - Jun 25 by positivity |
of course we want change, we just want it to be deliverable; your utopian vision isn't going to happen in a democracy all in one go.
anyone who thinks it could is utterly naive |
Yes but we've wasted two decades since the crash.. The last 10 particularly egregiously because of the Mcsweeney project.
This is serious now. If it's not radical we're going under. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:56 - Jun 25 with 668 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:46 - Jun 25 by jasondozzell |
Farage is a talented politician. Don't make the same mistake they made in the states with Kamala. You've got to seek to understand what it is that makes him popular. If you label all Reform voters as racist then you'll make the same mistake they made in US. |
Ashton In 🇬🇧👍 | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:14 - Jun 25 with 622 views | J2BLUE |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:00 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
More millionaires are leaving. Although I wouldn’t necessarily fit a future trend or causal impact just yet
Is there data to support the tax take v rate of tax argument you are making? There will be a point where the balance tips.
People who want to pay more tax, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. |
We need to stop wasting so much money. We need a full breakdown of our income (in detail) and where it goes. Then they need to say we need to either cut our expenses or raise taxes because we have to pay for X, Y and Z as a matter of urgency.
That would be far better than everyone pretending it's all fine and it's going to magically sort itself out.
I think we are taxed up to the eye balls but a modest average increase of £20 per month for the 39.1m taxpayers in the UK would give us another £9.3bn per year. If we could also cut a few billion from expenses then we can start addressing problems.
11% of expenditure goes on the debt which is incredible. 12% on pensions (time to end the triple lock and give a new fair but sensible deal). 21% on welfare (i'm not anti welfare at all but that needs to shrink if possible).
If we could cut each of those by 0.25% as a share of national expenditure that would save about £9bn which could then be given to the military and NHS. I realise you can't magically lower interest but we could accept some short term pain for a better future. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:18 - Jun 25 with 613 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:46 - Jun 25 by jasondozzell |
Farage is a talented politician. Don't make the same mistake they made in the states with Kamala. You've got to seek to understand what it is that makes him popular. If you label all Reform voters as racist then you'll make the same mistake they made in US. |
i don't label all reform supporters as racist, farage on the other hand...
why do you think that a man who has sought & wrought division and hatred throughout his career, would suddenly bring society together with peace and love? [Post edited 25 Jun 15:30]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:22 - Jun 25 with 598 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:51 - Jun 25 by jasondozzell |
Yes but we've wasted two decades since the crash.. The last 10 particularly egregiously because of the Mcsweeney project.
This is serious now. If it's not radical we're going under. |
we went back decades with corbyn's acquiescence to brexit and enabling boris to win a huge majority to deliver just about the worst possible form.
we need change now, not the status quo of letting the tories/reform back in, enabled by an unelectable left | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:42 - Jun 25 with 541 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 14:27 - Jun 25 by Benters |
You don’t know that’s what would happen if Reform got in.
Surely that is what you and your Special Branch friend accused me of spreading ‘disinformation’?
[Post edited 25 Jun 14:54]
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They have outlined a number of policies which are evidence of what could happen, certainly enough to form a hypothesis. Furthermore we can expand they hypothesis by looking at the very poor job they are doing in local government.
The real issue here is that you, a Reform voter, don't know what policies they have. Past "stop the boats" you have no idea what they would actually do as many people have tried to debate it with you or ask you for policies and you never reply.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:42 - Jun 25 with 540 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:14 - Jun 25 by J2BLUE |
We need to stop wasting so much money. We need a full breakdown of our income (in detail) and where it goes. Then they need to say we need to either cut our expenses or raise taxes because we have to pay for X, Y and Z as a matter of urgency.
That would be far better than everyone pretending it's all fine and it's going to magically sort itself out.
I think we are taxed up to the eye balls but a modest average increase of £20 per month for the 39.1m taxpayers in the UK would give us another £9.3bn per year. If we could also cut a few billion from expenses then we can start addressing problems.
11% of expenditure goes on the debt which is incredible. 12% on pensions (time to end the triple lock and give a new fair but sensible deal). 21% on welfare (i'm not anti welfare at all but that needs to shrink if possible).
If we could cut each of those by 0.25% as a share of national expenditure that would save about £9bn which could then be given to the military and NHS. I realise you can't magically lower interest but we could accept some short term pain for a better future. |
There is a suggestion in your post veering towards Austerity v2?
The NHS is fundamental to this. We’ve spent significantly more since 2010 in both real terms and as a percentage of gov spending. Can we say that the service meets the ever increasing expectations?
I have very little confidence that a significant rise in taxes will improve public services in any meaningful way.
Welfare spending is the only other meaningful pot that can be cut? | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:10 - Jun 25 with 509 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:42 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
There is a suggestion in your post veering towards Austerity v2?
The NHS is fundamental to this. We’ve spent significantly more since 2010 in both real terms and as a percentage of gov spending. Can we say that the service meets the ever increasing expectations?
I have very little confidence that a significant rise in taxes will improve public services in any meaningful way.
Welfare spending is the only other meaningful pot that can be cut? |
"The NHS is fundamental to this. We’ve spent significantly more since 2010 in both real terms and as a percentage of gov spending. Can we say that the service meets the ever increasing expectations? "
What is you alternative. Saying sod it? | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:16 - Jun 25 with 488 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:10 - Jun 25 by redrickstuhaart |
"The NHS is fundamental to this. We’ve spent significantly more since 2010 in both real terms and as a percentage of gov spending. Can we say that the service meets the ever increasing expectations? "
What is you alternative. Saying sod it? |
Ah yes, because of course the only options are much more money or sod it”…
I’d probably look at much more significant private investment. The French model has appeal. It’s also a similar country in population and demographics. I’d probably ask for supplementary payments like an excess to disincentivise use. I’d maybe consider pushing hard to people the benefits of private healthcare and see it as an investment for those who can afford it. We could consider reforming access to the NHS by removing the GP bottleneck? | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:35 - Jun 25 with 433 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:16 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
Ah yes, because of course the only options are much more money or sod it”…
I’d probably look at much more significant private investment. The French model has appeal. It’s also a similar country in population and demographics. I’d probably ask for supplementary payments like an excess to disincentivise use. I’d maybe consider pushing hard to people the benefits of private healthcare and see it as an investment for those who can afford it. We could consider reforming access to the NHS by removing the GP bottleneck? |
Oh dear. So the solution is to get private companies in who need a slice of profit on top of the ever increasing costs? | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:39 - Jun 25 with 425 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:35 - Jun 25 by redrickstuhaart |
Oh dear. So the solution is to get private companies in who need a slice of profit on top of the ever increasing costs? |
Works in France, so yes
You can make the argument that a slice of money goes now to funding state run inefficiency.
The NHS already has significant private investment (accelerated by New Labour). I just think it’s the worst of both worlds.
Your ideas? | | | |
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