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We're in the process of trying to make Chateau ZX as self-reliant as possible when it comes to energy or, at the very least, just get off the gas supply.
We're a 2011-built house with a system boiler that feeds a 180l pressurised hot water cylinder.
We had Octopus out today to quote for one of their systems, but it all fell flat when the chap mentioned that the current cylinder is too old (they won't work with anything over twelve years old), that the airing cupboard is too small for their purposes, and that they couldn't re-site the cylinder into the loft (the only other obvious location) owing to the hatch being too small.
Is this going to kill the possibility of a heat pump for us entirely? Or is it just that Octopus tend to be particularly careful/cautious when it comes to speccing out their systems?
I'd say the latter and its their standards that are the blocker.
At the risk of stating the obvious, is there any reason why the loft hatch couldn't be widened? That's probably not something Octopus would want to get involved with, but doesn't necessarily stop you doing it.
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 10:39 - Jun 29 with 2135 views
Get a proper heating engineer round rather than a utilities company.
They should also advise you that you’ll need to upgrade radiators, pipework etc as what you currently have may not be suitable for the lower flow & return temp of an ASHP.
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 10:33 - Jun 29 by _CliveBaker_
I'd say the latter and its their standards that are the blocker.
At the risk of stating the obvious, is there any reason why the loft hatch couldn't be widened? That's probably not something Octopus would want to get involved with, but doesn't necessarily stop you doing it.
Worth being a little bit careful about sawing through structural elements in the loft, in order to widen the hatch, given the positioning of joists is likely to be the main constraint on its size.
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 10:45 - Jun 29 by Guthrum
From seeing a friend's setup, heat pump systems do need a fair bit of space for cyliders, pumps and pressure vessels.
Plus you need to check the radiators. HP water is not so hot as gas boiler, thus they need to be larger/more efficient for the same output.
i'd always assumed that traditional radiators wouldn't work. but recently had a consultant looking at a large victorian property with existing radiators. his view was you could change them, or you could retain them and run the heating for longer at the lower temperature and that in terms of efficiency not a lot would be lost.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 11:39 - Jun 29 with 1941 views
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 10:49 - Jun 29 by Guthrum
Worth being a little bit careful about sawing through structural elements in the loft, in order to widen the hatch, given the positioning of joists is likely to be the main constraint on its size.
That would be the problem.
It's a nice big modern hatch, but it's already at full width - the trusses are set at the standard 600mm centres - so there's no real scope for widening.
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 11:39 - Jun 29 by Zx1988
That would be the problem.
It's a nice big modern hatch, but it's already at full width - the trusses are set at the standard 600mm centres - so there's no real scope for widening.
I had Octopus assess mine and said they couldn't fit a tank in my loft. Got Aira round, they said no problem - though I did need to slightly widen my loft hatch. I did cut a joist, but it really isn't that hard to make it safe. A couple of cross braces and joist hangers was all that was needed.
Octopus only do very simple jobs because they do them pretty cheaply.
[Post edited 29 Jun 14:07]
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 12:11 - Jun 29 with 1813 views
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 11:29 - Jun 29 by lowhouseblue
i'd always assumed that traditional radiators wouldn't work. but recently had a consultant looking at a large victorian property with existing radiators. his view was you could change them, or you could retain them and run the heating for longer at the lower temperature and that in terms of efficiency not a lot would be lost.
Heat pumps run for much longer than a boiler anyway, they have to due to the lower heat - though the running cost is much lower than gas per minute so the extra time doesn't cost more.
But you do tend to need larger or more efficient radiators for it to work well.
If so I can heartily recommend getting in contact with Conga Ltd. They designed and installed my system when I had just about run out of options to do so
They are an Ipswich company set up by an academy award winning mechanical engineer who had become frustrated by over specced over priced systems when he looked I to it for himself.
Cant you get a bigger hatch for the loft? would have paid less than £700 for a far larger opening but ended up getting most of the whole loft boarded. Hatch completely recut in a better area (upstairs landing) and better quality fold up ladder for about £1900. was also interest free over 12 months.
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 14:15 - Jun 29 with 1522 views
Worth getting several quotes and insights. It is essential you get someone who is going to run the calcs and get an accurate HLI figure for the house. I'm sure you've seen horror stories of people paying more to run their heatpump than their boiler.
System has to be specced correctly and other upgrades such as insulation may be needed. It took me 2 years to complete the full retro on my house most of that was arguing with quotes and not being confident on what I was told. Now the house built in 2002 is A1 rated but it did cost a lot.
Check out heatgeeks youtube channel maybe their is a certified installer near you or Geoffs recommendation. There will be a solution for the cylinder piece.
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 15:32 - Jun 29 with 1423 views
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 12:13 - Jun 29 by GeoffSentence
Are you in Ipswich, or East Anglia?
If so I can heartily recommend getting in contact with Conga Ltd. They designed and installed my system when I had just about run out of options to do so
They are an Ipswich company set up by an academy award winning mechanical engineer who had become frustrated by over specced over priced systems when he looked I to it for himself.
Did your academy award winning mech engineer get his oscar for best pipework?
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 15:34 - Jun 29 with 1417 views
There is a government grant for air-air heat pumps (air conditioning) now too. Could get rid of your radiators all together and have cooling in the summer. There are some systems that do your hot water too.
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 16:39 - Jun 29 with 1294 views
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 16:30 - Jun 29 by squiz
There is a government grant for air-air heat pumps (air conditioning) now too. Could get rid of your radiators all together and have cooling in the summer. There are some systems that do your hot water too.
The idea of air to air is great - cooling and heating - but there are issues:
1) you'd have a lot of retrofitting to get the pipework in your house 2) a standard air to air pump can only heat/cool about 4 rooms of a normal house 3) you'd need a separate way of heating your water
For new builds I think the government should already be enforcing them, but that won't happen.
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 16:46 - Jun 29 with 1270 views
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 10:49 - Jun 29 by Guthrum
Worth being a little bit careful about sawing through structural elements in the loft, in order to widen the hatch, given the positioning of joists is likely to be the main constraint on its size.
It's quite doable; just would need some strengthening work to make up for the cut joists. Simple job for a carpenter and certainly should not be a nail in the coffin to the ZX's plans .
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 16:50 - Jun 29 with 1265 views
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 16:46 - Jun 29 by mellowblue
It's quite doable; just would need some strengthening work to make up for the cut joists. Simple job for a carpenter and certainly should not be a nail in the coffin to the ZX's plans .
Yep, I've done it a couple of times, really not much to it. Just don't stand on the joist after you've cut it and before you've shored it up and you'll be fine
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 17:17 - Jun 29 with 1242 views
Octopus told me the same. Seems it's their standard response, but they spent a lot of hours "surveying" the house and taking photos. They should have just looked at the existing cylinder. This was two or three years ago. I couldn't find any other local suppliers at the time who would offer alternative quotes, so unfortunately I just got a new gas boiler.
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 17:56 - Jun 29 with 1202 views
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 12:13 - Jun 29 by GeoffSentence
Are you in Ipswich, or East Anglia?
If so I can heartily recommend getting in contact with Conga Ltd. They designed and installed my system when I had just about run out of options to do so
They are an Ipswich company set up by an academy award winning mechanical engineer who had become frustrated by over specced over priced systems when he looked I to it for himself.
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 16:30 - Jun 29 by squiz
There is a government grant for air-air heat pumps (air conditioning) now too. Could get rid of your radiators all together and have cooling in the summer. There are some systems that do your hot water too.
This is the way forward. The upstairs rooms could be fed by a unit in the loft ducted to each room. Couple of small wall hung units downstairs. Solar for the HW with immersion top up.
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 22:53 - Jun 29 with 989 views
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 22:43 - Jun 29 by BlueForYou
This is the way forward. The upstairs rooms could be fed by a unit in the loft ducted to each room. Couple of small wall hung units downstairs. Solar for the HW with immersion top up.
That's what I've been pondering.
My only thought is that we're over three floors, with thirteen heated 'spaces' (sixteen if you count the hall and landings).
I imagine this would make things rather expensive, unless one could go for efficient electric panel heaters in the spaces that wouldn't require cooling in summer?
Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 22:53 - Jun 29 by Zx1988
That's what I've been pondering.
My only thought is that we're over three floors, with thirteen heated 'spaces' (sixteen if you count the hall and landings).
I imagine this would make things rather expensive, unless one could go for efficient electric panel heaters in the spaces that wouldn't require cooling in summer?
The most efficient electric heater that isn't a heat pump is 100% efficient. Electricity is 3x more expensive than gas, meaning it'll cost you a lot more to heat your house with them than a boiler or heat pump.
If you just want the cooling option for a few weeks in summer I'd probably get a normal heat pump and one or two air con units to be used when desperate.
Air to air heat pumps unfortunately have very limited ability at the moment as they can only heat or cool 4 rooms. Hopefully that will improve.
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Air-Source Heat Pumps - advice please on 16:25 - Jun 30 with 721 views
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