| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills 08:47 - Jul 21 with 3122 views | homer_123 |
funded by scrapping Dig ID.
A half decent start.... |  |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 08:52 - Jul 21 with 2552 views | Swansea_Blue |
It’s an another goal back for Team Decency. I’d call it a draw so far with two own goals (fossil fuel promotion and *Mahmood) followed by a couple of tidy finishes (rough sleeping and VAT).
I’ve no idea how much of a difference this will make to anyone, but just the optics of it should have people feeling a bit brighter). People need some hope and a feeling that they’re not being ignored almost as much as the financial support. Starmer got both of those horribly wrong, even though he did some ok things and was an excellent acting Foreign Sec.
*I suppose we could spin Mahmood and say it’s a good sign he’s going to make the party a broader church and not purge out of spite like Starmer did. Also better to keep the devil close. [Post edited 21 Jul 8:57]
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 08:55 - Jul 21 with 2507 views | homer_123 |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 08:52 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s an another goal back for Team Decency. I’d call it a draw so far with two own goals (fossil fuel promotion and *Mahmood) followed by a couple of tidy finishes (rough sleeping and VAT).
I’ve no idea how much of a difference this will make to anyone, but just the optics of it should have people feeling a bit brighter). People need some hope and a feeling that they’re not being ignored almost as much as the financial support. Starmer got both of those horribly wrong, even though he did some ok things and was an excellent acting Foreign Sec.
*I suppose we could spin Mahmood and say it’s a good sign he’s going to make the party a broader church and not purge out of spite like Starmer did. Also better to keep the devil close. [Post edited 21 Jul 8:57]
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I think I saw Vapes say it but the rough sleeping one is absolutely a good thing.
The fossil fuel - I wonder if this is more born of being slightly more self-sufficient given the geopolitical situation the world is in? Not ideal, I know but I 'kinda' get it - if that's the angle. I'd rather be greener for sure though. | |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 08:57 - Jul 21 with 2498 views | soupytwist |
Plenty of talk about the digital ID scheme not being fully funded, so unclear whether it's possible to divert enough money from that to scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills.
Either way, a good day for EV owners able to charge at home. Perhaps they'll stop bleating about road charging now. [Post edited 21 Jul 9:03]
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:10 - Jul 21 with 2361 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 08:55 - Jul 21 by homer_123 |
I think I saw Vapes say it but the rough sleeping one is absolutely a good thing.
The fossil fuel - I wonder if this is more born of being slightly more self-sufficient given the geopolitical situation the world is in? Not ideal, I know but I 'kinda' get it - if that's the angle. I'd rather be greener for sure though. |
Yeah, rough sleeping is a big plus imo too. It says a lot about a rich country if you’re prepared to leave people on the streets.
The thing about the fossil fuel stuff is I think it’s quicker to ramp up new renewables than re-start oil and gas extraction. I may be wrong on that for the existing licences in fields where there’s already some infrastructure; maybe that only applies to new fields.
It would be nuts to do anything with fossil fuels where we could do it more cheaply and quickly with renewables imo. But I suppose supply is only part of the problem and we’ve still got millions of gas boilers plus the gas electricity generation turbines to fuel somehow. As long as N Sea gas is cleaner, then I suppose it makes sense to produce rather than import. We really need to be moving away from fossil fuels at pace though.
What worries me is the environmental aspect on this is getting sidelined. We need to be mindful that the fossil fuel industry is one of the most powerful lobbies (much like tobacco was); the media aren’t challenging the claims being made. Just this morning early on 5Live there was someone trying to justify an expansion in oil and gas because it could be “the start of a sovereign wealth fund like Norway’s that we could use to fund renewables”. That’s utter bull, as we’ve already burnt 90%’of N Sea reserves and siphoned the profits off to companies. We can’t now do anything like Norway has done. That decision would have needed to be taken 50 years ago. | |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:20 - Jul 21 with 2303 views | Pinewoodblue |
Not convinced about this. Businesses offset the VAT paid on electricity against the VAT collected for goods or services they provide.
Wouldn’t it be more benefit, to everyone, if the price of electricity wasn’t linked to the price of gas? |  |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:28 - Jul 21 with 2235 views | EastTownBlue |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 08:57 - Jul 21 by soupytwist |
Plenty of talk about the digital ID scheme not being fully funded, so unclear whether it's possible to divert enough money from that to scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills.
Either way, a good day for EV owners able to charge at home. Perhaps they'll stop bleating about road charging now. [Post edited 21 Jul 9:03]
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Darren Jones would know about it being unfunded as he was responsible for digital Id until yesterday. A very awkward start policy wise and the axed Starmer cabinet members won’t be sitting quietly on the back benches.
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:30 - Jul 21 with 2204 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:10 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Yeah, rough sleeping is a big plus imo too. It says a lot about a rich country if you’re prepared to leave people on the streets.
The thing about the fossil fuel stuff is I think it’s quicker to ramp up new renewables than re-start oil and gas extraction. I may be wrong on that for the existing licences in fields where there’s already some infrastructure; maybe that only applies to new fields.
It would be nuts to do anything with fossil fuels where we could do it more cheaply and quickly with renewables imo. But I suppose supply is only part of the problem and we’ve still got millions of gas boilers plus the gas electricity generation turbines to fuel somehow. As long as N Sea gas is cleaner, then I suppose it makes sense to produce rather than import. We really need to be moving away from fossil fuels at pace though.
What worries me is the environmental aspect on this is getting sidelined. We need to be mindful that the fossil fuel industry is one of the most powerful lobbies (much like tobacco was); the media aren’t challenging the claims being made. Just this morning early on 5Live there was someone trying to justify an expansion in oil and gas because it could be “the start of a sovereign wealth fund like Norway’s that we could use to fund renewables”. That’s utter bull, as we’ve already burnt 90%’of N Sea reserves and siphoned the profits off to companies. We can’t now do anything like Norway has done. That decision would have needed to be taken 50 years ago. |
But we aren’t going to use more gas because it’s produced locally, that’s why it’s a daft and self defeating policy. It’s certainly cleaner to bring ashore than importing all the way from the US as LNG. It’s not going to replace renewable energy, it’s just going to mean we get the benefit of the tax revenues rather than a foreign government.
The Rosebank field alone could be productive for 25 years and provide billions of tax revenue (at the windfall rate which means the govt receives more of the profit than the E&P company). You could theoretically ring fence* that revenue and invest in actual state owned green assets, rather than the pathetic policy we have now of subsidising some of the most capital rich firms in the world.
*we all know it will get sucked into the black hole that is our debt, and fiscal deficit. [Post edited 21 Jul 9:36]
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:33 - Jul 21 with 2185 views | Guthrum |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:20 - Jul 21 by Pinewoodblue |
Not convinced about this. Businesses offset the VAT paid on electricity against the VAT collected for goods or services they provide.
Wouldn’t it be more benefit, to everyone, if the price of electricity wasn’t linked to the price of gas? |
It's money going out of the business either way, to HMRC via VAT paid on fuel or via the VAT collected from customers. Shouldn't make any difference to the bottom line.
Will help small businesses below the VAT threshold. |  |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:36 - Jul 21 with 2132 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:30 - Jul 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
But we aren’t going to use more gas because it’s produced locally, that’s why it’s a daft and self defeating policy. It’s certainly cleaner to bring ashore than importing all the way from the US as LNG. It’s not going to replace renewable energy, it’s just going to mean we get the benefit of the tax revenues rather than a foreign government.
The Rosebank field alone could be productive for 25 years and provide billions of tax revenue (at the windfall rate which means the govt receives more of the profit than the E&P company). You could theoretically ring fence* that revenue and invest in actual state owned green assets, rather than the pathetic policy we have now of subsidising some of the most capital rich firms in the world.
*we all know it will get sucked into the black hole that is our debt, and fiscal deficit. [Post edited 21 Jul 9:36]
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There’s a lot of ifs and buts there if we’re going to end up in a position where we do actually ramp up investments in green assets off the back of this. The fossil fuel companies will be pushing hard for investment in more oil and gas. For me, the conversation is too far skewed towards oils and gas when we need to be full steam ahead on renewables. I find it worrying.
The replacement of imports makes sense though. | |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:37 - Jul 21 with 2126 views | Guthrum |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 08:57 - Jul 21 by soupytwist |
Plenty of talk about the digital ID scheme not being fully funded, so unclear whether it's possible to divert enough money from that to scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills.
Either way, a good day for EV owners able to charge at home. Perhaps they'll stop bleating about road charging now. [Post edited 21 Jul 9:03]
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The government will get a fair chunk of the money back, as what households save is likely to be spent on other stuff which is subject to VAT at higher rates than the 5% formerly levied on electricity. | |
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| Maybe the Norway model on fossil fuel on 09:42 - Jul 21 with 2086 views | Overtheborderblue |
Maybe his going for the Norway model on fossil fuel.
Do not use them yourselves but sell to the rest of the world to fund the country financial investment, fund this country’s renewable’s , social care infrastructure construction etc | | | |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:45 - Jul 21 with 2071 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:36 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
There’s a lot of ifs and buts there if we’re going to end up in a position where we do actually ramp up investments in green assets off the back of this. The fossil fuel companies will be pushing hard for investment in more oil and gas. For me, the conversation is too far skewed towards oils and gas when we need to be full steam ahead on renewables. I find it worrying.
The replacement of imports makes sense though. |
Renewables have been massively ramped up, where we do need more investment is in storage. We are actually at a point where we have so much renewable energy that the assets have to be shut down as the grid can’t cope. We need storage so that excess energy can be captured, but also for the times where there’s little wind/solar generation. Until then we’ll still need gas to fill in, but we aren’t going to be using more of it. | | | |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:49 - Jul 21 with 2038 views | SonOfSpock |
Digital ID wasn't funded in first place and the scheme only lasts until October (?)
No doubt a flurry of new taxes to arrive soon. |  | | |
| Maybe the Norway model on fossil fuel on 09:54 - Jul 21 with 1993 views | Guthrum |
| Maybe the Norway model on fossil fuel on 09:42 - Jul 21 by Overtheborderblue |
Maybe his going for the Norway model on fossil fuel.
Do not use them yourselves but sell to the rest of the world to fund the country financial investment, fund this country’s renewable’s , social care infrastructure construction etc |
In pure practical terms, however much we may earnestly desire to be green, the country is not yet in a position to wean itself off petrochemicals. Particularly with increased demand for electricity for technology (and associated businesses). | |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:58 - Jul 21 with 1961 views | Chalk_Cheese |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:49 - Jul 21 by SonOfSpock |
Digital ID wasn't funded in first place and the scheme only lasts until October (?)
No doubt a flurry of new taxes to arrive soon. |
5% wow, that on average £45 a year, looking forward to my extra almost £1 a week.....
that will be lost in the fuel ( diesel/petrol & oil) high prices we are being mugged off with..
Digi ID didn't have a budget, so not sure where the saving has come from? oh yeah be increases in other stealth taxes |  | | |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 10:03 - Jul 21 with 1921 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 08:52 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s an another goal back for Team Decency. I’d call it a draw so far with two own goals (fossil fuel promotion and *Mahmood) followed by a couple of tidy finishes (rough sleeping and VAT).
I’ve no idea how much of a difference this will make to anyone, but just the optics of it should have people feeling a bit brighter). People need some hope and a feeling that they’re not being ignored almost as much as the financial support. Starmer got both of those horribly wrong, even though he did some ok things and was an excellent acting Foreign Sec.
*I suppose we could spin Mahmood and say it’s a good sign he’s going to make the party a broader church and not purge out of spite like Starmer did. Also better to keep the devil close. [Post edited 21 Jul 8:57]
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It makes on average a £45 a year difference. Or 12p a day.
The headline optics are far greater than the financial impact.
Edit for clarity - I support it as an early 'win' for Burnham as the papers will oversell it, but he has far bigger issues to resolve [Post edited 21 Jul 10:05]
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 10:07 - Jul 21 with 1889 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:58 - Jul 21 by Chalk_Cheese |
5% wow, that on average £45 a year, looking forward to my extra almost £1 a week.....
that will be lost in the fuel ( diesel/petrol & oil) high prices we are being mugged off with..
Digi ID didn't have a budget, so not sure where the saving has come from? oh yeah be increases in other stealth taxes |
Most of the unfunded costs would be upfront. Annual costs thereafter wouldn’t be anywhere high enough to cover the lost revenue from the 5% VAT rate.
It’s a gimmick. | |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 10:11 - Jul 21 with 1846 views | Trequartista |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:28 - Jul 21 by EastTownBlue |
Darren Jones would know about it being unfunded as he was responsible for digital Id until yesterday. A very awkward start policy wise and the axed Starmer cabinet members won’t be sitting quietly on the back benches.
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Wow unless this guy has suddenly become Leader of the Opposition he needs to concentrate on the reasons why he and his boss have been turfed out there rather than causing rifts on day 1. |  |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 10:28 - Jul 21 with 1770 views | Guthrum |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:28 - Jul 21 by EastTownBlue |
Darren Jones would know about it being unfunded as he was responsible for digital Id until yesterday. A very awkward start policy wise and the axed Starmer cabinet members won’t be sitting quietly on the back benches.
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Digital ID may have been unfunded, but they were still spending time and money on working the policy up. That's a saving there. [Post edited 21 Jul 10:29]
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 13:37 - Jul 21 with 1521 views | BloomBlue |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 10:11 - Jul 21 by Trequartista |
Wow unless this guy has suddenly become Leader of the Opposition he needs to concentrate on the reasons why he and his boss have been turfed out there rather than causing rifts on day 1. |
Although you could argue, if they had concentrated on supporting Starmer then they don't find themselves in this situation.
Anyway... Politics has been the same for centuries, if you stab someone in the back, don't be surprised when someone stabs you in the back. |  | | |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 14:26 - Jul 21 with 1442 views | Radlett_blue |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 10:07 - Jul 21 by Pinewoodblue |
Most of the unfunded costs would be upfront. Annual costs thereafter wouldn’t be anywhere high enough to cover the lost revenue from the 5% VAT rate.
It’s a gimmick. |
Indeed, Burnham wants to arrive with an eye catching but minimalist popular gesture. The real decisions are ahead of him. |  |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 15:54 - Jul 21 with 1341 views | OldFart71 |
I think the government should be looking at the profits of supermarkets and energy firms.
Don't get me wrong I have always said profit isn't a dirty word. Companies have to make profits to expand and pay increased wages.
Where i agree with Labour is that firms like water companies have taken the p*ss. Instead of the money paid for their services going into renewing and upgrading they have gorged themselves on huge wages and giving share holders massive dividends. Now we are expected to pay an extra 30% over five years to fund what should have been done anyway. | | | |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 16:01 - Jul 21 with 1304 views | Bent_double |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 09:33 - Jul 21 by Guthrum |
It's money going out of the business either way, to HMRC via VAT paid on fuel or via the VAT collected from customers. Shouldn't make any difference to the bottom line.
Will help small businesses below the VAT threshold. |
Zero benefit for me, not too bothered really, but I would like to see an earth-shattering, difference-making announcement from him - something that Starmer should have done right at the start with his massive majority.
Won't hold my breath for it though. |  |
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| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 16:39 - Jul 21 with 1226 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 15:54 - Jul 21 by OldFart71 |
I think the government should be looking at the profits of supermarkets and energy firms.
Don't get me wrong I have always said profit isn't a dirty word. Companies have to make profits to expand and pay increased wages.
Where i agree with Labour is that firms like water companies have taken the p*ss. Instead of the money paid for their services going into renewing and upgrading they have gorged themselves on huge wages and giving share holders massive dividends. Now we are expected to pay an extra 30% over five years to fund what should have been done anyway. |
Worse than that, the likes of Thames water have been paying out divi’s WITHOUT making a profit. Now the taxpayer could be left with a crumbling infrastructure and £20bn of debt.
The CMA investigated profiteering in supermarkets, and found that profit margins had remained stable, I.e. the underlying inflation in the economy was driving costs up.
https://www.gov.uk/government/
Energy firms has also been done, the windfall tax is still in place. But you can only tax profits made in your jurisdiction- I.e around 5-10pc of BP’s profit is in the UK so the rest is taxed in other domiciles. | | | |
| Scrapping VAT on domestic electricity bills on 18:09 - Jul 21 with 1154 views | DJR |
From the Guardian.
"The spokesman was asked about the scoring of the digital ID programme and which funding is to be shifted from it for the VAT cut, as the Office for Budget Responsibility previously said that money for digital ID still needed to be found.
Put to him that the cut was being funded through unidentified savings, he said: “What we’re doing is we’re funding this through the cancellation of the digital ID programme.
“Departments were going to have to fund the Digital ID programme through their existing budget reprioritisation.
“Departments will now direct these savings towards this.”
The money is thus being found from cuts to departmental budgets. Expect much more of this with Burnham's stated spending increases and Streeting's commitment today to increase defence spending to 3.5% of GDP by 2035.
Effectively this is austerity by the back door for non-protected areas but to take a recent example, schools are not being fully funded for teacher's pay increases, meaning 1 percentage point of the increase has to be found from existing school budgets with the result that schools are laying off teaching assistants and trying to remove older, more well-paid teachers, and this at a time when the government is supposed to be improving SEND support for pupils. This in turn fails pupils and puts increasing pressure on teachers, such as my daughter. [Post edited 21 Jul 18:13]
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