| Hull watch 17:51 - Sep 5 with 5523 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
While we are taking tactics on newly promoted clubs.
They are in a narrow 5-4-1, as clear as a system you will see without the ball. A lot less open space in the middle of the pitch than our games. It’s a true flat back 5 as well, the 3 CBs are than close together are going to win a lot of balls that come their way.
I just don’t see what they are going to do when they concede first goal at this level though lol.
Villa still look quite threatening.
[Post edited 5 Sep 17:53]
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| Hull watch on 19:36 - Sep 5 with 556 views | Scuzzer |
| Hull watch on 17:55 - Sep 5 by FrimleyBlue |
I do sense a villa goal soon. Theyve shown some examples of getting through that backline. |
The force is weak within you young Frimmers. [Post edited 5 Sep 19:37]
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| Hull watch on 19:38 - Sep 5 with 546 views | pointofblue |
| Hull watch on 19:30 - Sep 5 by jas0999 |
Another excellent result from Hull against a team who won a European competition last season. Liverpool didn’t.
I’m sure down voted, but Hull weren’t out of the contest after just nine minutes. I’m sure those that accuse (offensively) folk to be bed wetting will have an excuse. For me, this is how we should have performed. Congratulations to Hull. Signed a great keeper as well. Defensively good. Not a goal conceded to Villa and United.
Over to GON to not just talk the talk. But walk the walk.
Hull FOUR points from Man U and Villa - makes a mockery of the excuses for our dismal defeats on here. |
They're fluking it. Sorry, but I'm getting slightly annoyed off with the woe is us post after post on here coupled with the fellating of Hull.
Based on XP:
Town 1.74 - 0.76 Sunderland
Man Utd 4.56 - 2.01 Town
Town 0.73 - 0.66 Liverpool
Hull 1.26 - 1.81 Man Utd
Coventry 1.28 - 0.73 Hull
Hull 0.58 - 1.78 Hull
For all of Hull's superb defending and excellent low block, our xG against is better outside of the Manchester United meltdown. Teams are taking their chances against us. They're not against Hull.
I'm not saying being more solid is a bad thing. But I don't think, when looking deeper than "Oh they haven't conceded yet", Hull is necessarily the approach we should aspire to, unless we know we'll also get their fortune. |  |
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| Hull watch on 19:39 - Sep 5 with 521 views | Blue_Uprising |
| Hull watch on 19:25 - Sep 5 by ITFCSG |
Our defenders are not good enough to play a low block against PL teams week-in-week-out. We would just concede less, that's all
GON should be smart enough to use different tactics for different teams. So far I am not seeing it
N.B. Villa looked very poor today though, am interested to see how we fare against them in Nov |
I personally do feel we have defenders good enough to play the low block as well as hull. If setup to do so.
But it will certainly be a bit hairum scarum like hull and we would beeef to ride our luck. Nail biting to watch but a point is a point. |  | | |
| Hull watch on 19:40 - Sep 5 with 517 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Hull watch on 19:35 - Sep 5 by Adams |
I 100% agree on different tactics against different teams. We have much more talent than Hull, so I wouldn't want us playing 541 all season, but I expected us to be more defensive in the last 2 games. We aren't good enough to beat these teams at their own game. |
Yep, considering they came up with the worse squad in PL recent history you’ve got to give it to them really. We need to be more adaptable, every PL point is a prisoner after all. [Post edited 5 Sep 19:40]
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| Hull watch on 19:43 - Sep 5 with 484 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Hull watch on 19:38 - Sep 5 by pointofblue |
They're fluking it. Sorry, but I'm getting slightly annoyed off with the woe is us post after post on here coupled with the fellating of Hull.
Based on XP:
Town 1.74 - 0.76 Sunderland
Man Utd 4.56 - 2.01 Town
Town 0.73 - 0.66 Liverpool
Hull 1.26 - 1.81 Man Utd
Coventry 1.28 - 0.73 Hull
Hull 0.58 - 1.78 Hull
For all of Hull's superb defending and excellent low block, our xG against is better outside of the Manchester United meltdown. Teams are taking their chances against us. They're not against Hull.
I'm not saying being more solid is a bad thing. But I don't think, when looking deeper than "Oh they haven't conceded yet", Hull is necessarily the approach we should aspire to, unless we know we'll also get their fortune. |
Reminds me of other fans calling us lucky that promotion year, when it comes to the eye test Hull are way more solid than us.
I don’t want to adopt their approach every game and we haven’t brought attackers to attempt it to be honest. However, in certain games we need to try and have a more solid base. Really can’t be playing that kind of line with Greaves and Diop against CL clubs. | |
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| Hull watch on 19:43 - Sep 5 with 480 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Hull watch on 19:39 - Sep 5 by Blue_Uprising |
I personally do feel we have defenders good enough to play the low block as well as hull. If setup to do so.
But it will certainly be a bit hairum scarum like hull and we would beeef to ride our luck. Nail biting to watch but a point is a point. |
So far hulls goes have been two set pieces and a hoof from an opponents corner
If thats your outlay whilst opponents are banging on the door to your goal its not going to end well over the season. |  |
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| Hull watch on 19:45 - Sep 5 with 469 views | Adams |
| Hull watch on 19:43 - Sep 5 by FrimleyBlue |
So far hulls goes have been two set pieces and a hoof from an opponents corner
If thats your outlay whilst opponents are banging on the door to your goal its not going to end well over the season. |
Well obviously. They have the worst squad in the league. It's not really Premier League quality. No one is saying they're great, just that their tactics are making the most of what they have. They're making it hard for the top teams despite not being very good. [Post edited 5 Sep 19:46]
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| Hull watch on 19:47 - Sep 5 with 444 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Hull watch on 19:43 - Sep 5 by FrimleyBlue |
So far hulls goes have been two set pieces and a hoof from an opponents corner
If thats your outlay whilst opponents are banging on the door to your goal its not going to end well over the season. |
You’re talking nonense.
Miller missed an identical chance against Cov a few minutes earlier. Set pieces could be crucial for PL points,are you saying they’re not important goals? Even today they looked the more likely winner at the end when Villa got a bit more desperate. Two decent chances at 0-0.
Hull had then exactly where they wanted them, frustrated and out of ideas.
I’m not suggesting it’s fun to watch or that we haven’t got more talent but to say it’s all luck is stupid. [Post edited 5 Sep 19:48]
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| Hull watch on 19:49 - Sep 5 with 431 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Hull watch on 19:45 - Sep 5 by Adams |
Well obviously. They have the worst squad in the league. It's not really Premier League quality. No one is saying they're great, just that their tactics are making the most of what they have. They're making it hard for the top teams despite not being very good. [Post edited 5 Sep 19:46]
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But we are seeing that we should use the tactics because it works.
Ive no doubt we will end up with a couple of different lineups. But whilst the season is early we need to find our style. That first game and the 40 v utd.. that wins us games against most of id say the botton 10 of the league. Thats what we need so lets get that style and patterns sorted. Then work on the other side.
Hull. Theyll soon find that once that first opponent goal takes the lead.. theyre in a diffrrent world. | |
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| Hull watch on 19:50 - Sep 5 with 426 views | pointofblue |
| Hull watch on 19:43 - Sep 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Reminds me of other fans calling us lucky that promotion year, when it comes to the eye test Hull are way more solid than us.
I don’t want to adopt their approach every game and we haven’t brought attackers to attempt it to be honest. However, in certain games we need to try and have a more solid base. Really can’t be playing that kind of line with Greaves and Diop against CL clubs. |
Based on the XG table we should have finished third in 2023/24. Last season, Hull would have ended up in 18th (we should have won it, as an aside).
I'm not sure if this season's table has been updated yet but safe to say Hull are far higher than they should be in the reality. They rode their luck last season, will it continue I'm not sure. Not at this level.
As I said, I'm not against being more solid. I definitely think we should switch to a back three against the bigger sides and was slightly disappointed prior to kick off yesterday that we hadn't. I'm just not getting overly excited about or ready to praise Hull's approach for the moment. | |
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| Hull watch on 19:52 - Sep 5 with 416 views | bartyg |
Hull have been really good so far, massive credit to them considering their starting line up is still mostly champ players.
I do think the people saying "why can't we play like this" would be saying the exact opposite if we did indeed play like that. Some people are never happy.
We had the rub of the green against Sunderland, and the opposite against Man U and Liverpool. We've got the talent to play a more expansive game than Hull, and GON has shown that's what he wants to do. The next two games are going to be far better indicators of our season than the last two. |  |
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| Hull watch on 19:54 - Sep 5 with 396 views | Tonytown |
| Hull watch on 19:50 - Sep 5 by pointofblue |
Based on the XG table we should have finished third in 2023/24. Last season, Hull would have ended up in 18th (we should have won it, as an aside).
I'm not sure if this season's table has been updated yet but safe to say Hull are far higher than they should be in the reality. They rode their luck last season, will it continue I'm not sure. Not at this level.
As I said, I'm not against being more solid. I definitely think we should switch to a back three against the bigger sides and was slightly disappointed prior to kick off yesterday that we hadn't. I'm just not getting overly excited about or ready to praise Hull's approach for the moment. |
They look compact, hard to play through and have talent out wide on both sides with a beast of a centre forward.
They would beat us if we played them next week. | | | |
| Hull watch on 19:55 - Sep 5 with 391 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Hull watch on 19:50 - Sep 5 by pointofblue |
Based on the XG table we should have finished third in 2023/24. Last season, Hull would have ended up in 18th (we should have won it, as an aside).
I'm not sure if this season's table has been updated yet but safe to say Hull are far higher than they should be in the reality. They rode their luck last season, will it continue I'm not sure. Not at this level.
As I said, I'm not against being more solid. I definitely think we should switch to a back three against the bigger sides and was slightly disappointed prior to kick off yesterday that we hadn't. I'm just not getting overly excited about or ready to praise Hull's approach for the moment. |
All that data suggests really is that Hull are making a mockery of XG.
Similar to Sunderland last year, it’s not luck over an entire season IMO.
We need to realize who we are still in some of these games. In the last two we’ve conceded goals against top attacks playing a line that’s far too high with our CB pace (just as an example). [Post edited 5 Sep 19:56]
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| Hull watch on 19:56 - Sep 5 with 373 views | pointofblue |
| Hull watch on 19:54 - Sep 5 by Tonytown |
They look compact, hard to play through and have talent out wide on both sides with a beast of a centre forward.
They would beat us if we played them next week. |
Hard to play through is hugely debatable considering the data available but... | |
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| Hull watch on 19:56 - Sep 5 with 370 views | Tonytown |
| Hull watch on 19:52 - Sep 5 by bartyg |
Hull have been really good so far, massive credit to them considering their starting line up is still mostly champ players.
I do think the people saying "why can't we play like this" would be saying the exact opposite if we did indeed play like that. Some people are never happy.
We had the rub of the green against Sunderland, and the opposite against Man U and Liverpool. We've got the talent to play a more expansive game than Hull, and GON has shown that's what he wants to do. The next two games are going to be far better indicators of our season than the last two. |
Liverpool were streets ahead of us, no run of the green needed or actually happened | | | |
| Hull watch on 19:56 - Sep 5 with 368 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Hull watch on 19:47 - Sep 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
You’re talking nonense.
Miller missed an identical chance against Cov a few minutes earlier. Set pieces could be crucial for PL points,are you saying they’re not important goals? Even today they looked the more likely winner at the end when Villa got a bit more desperate. Two decent chances at 0-0.
Hull had then exactly where they wanted them, frustrated and out of ideas.
I’m not suggesting it’s fun to watch or that we haven’t got more talent but to say it’s all luck is stupid. [Post edited 5 Sep 19:48]
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Yes another counter to a coventry attack
Lets see how they do when they are 0-1 down. Which they should have been early in todays game despite their amazing defensive shape. | |
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| Hull watch on 19:56 - Sep 5 with 368 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Hull watch on 19:52 - Sep 5 by bartyg |
Hull have been really good so far, massive credit to them considering their starting line up is still mostly champ players.
I do think the people saying "why can't we play like this" would be saying the exact opposite if we did indeed play like that. Some people are never happy.
We had the rub of the green against Sunderland, and the opposite against Man U and Liverpool. We've got the talent to play a more expansive game than Hull, and GON has shown that's what he wants to do. The next two games are going to be far better indicators of our season than the last two. |
Are we allowed to say, we should adopt a bit more of this against top 4 sides? | |
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| Hull watch on 19:57 - Sep 5 with 361 views | ITFC_Essex |
| Hull watch on 19:26 - Sep 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
They don’t have the talent Sunderland did but the approach building a solid base seems to serve them well.
7 points from 9 that’s a good haul of what they’ll need over the course of the season.
I just hope we haven’t tried to run before we can walk. |
They do have the fight to get the points though, many of our supporters wrote them off, but I think of all 3 of the promoted sides they are the one more likely to stay up. |  |
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| Hull watch on 19:58 - Sep 5 with 357 views | Blue_Uprising |
| Hull watch on 19:43 - Sep 5 by FrimleyBlue |
So far hulls goes have been two set pieces and a hoof from an opponents corner
If thats your outlay whilst opponents are banging on the door to your goal its not going to end well over the season. |
I do t think hull with care too much what type of goals they have score just that they have been clinical.
I agree on balance it is likely not to work over a season. It does not have to work over a season I would hope for us with our better attacking talent we can mix it up more.
My only point has been to use it against the very best teams in the league. Where 9 times out of 10 trying to outplay them results in a loss (as it did last time we were in this league to our cost) | | | |
| Hull watch on 19:59 - Sep 5 with 353 views | pointofblue |
| Hull watch on 19:55 - Sep 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
All that data suggests really is that Hull are making a mockery of XG.
Similar to Sunderland last year, it’s not luck over an entire season IMO.
We need to realize who we are still in some of these games. In the last two we’ve conceded goals against top attacks playing a line that’s far too high with our CB pace (just as an example). [Post edited 5 Sep 19:56]
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I'm not denying that. And Sunderland make a mockery of xG last season too. I just think it's a gamble at this level. It may work out, but it's a very fine line to tread.
I do agree with your final paragraph, though. I wasn't a great fan of O'Neil's appointment when it was announced, but my one hope was more tactical flexibility and maybe a pragmatic approach against teams with attacking talent. In fairness, a forward foot approach worked against Manchester United until things went against us in quick succession though, as someone else said, perhaps we should have seen it coming at half time and adapted at that point. | |
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| Hull watch on 20:00 - Sep 5 with 346 views | bartyg |
| Hull watch on 19:56 - Sep 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Are we allowed to say, we should adopt a bit more of this against top 4 sides? |
Seemed like a personnel issue to me more than anything else. I would have preferred we had Florentino or Matusiwa in that game over Lukic for sure, but it seems Florentino still wasn't fit enough. | |
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| Hull watch on 20:01 - Sep 5 with 340 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Hull watch on 19:56 - Sep 5 by FrimleyBlue |
Yes another counter to a coventry attack
Lets see how they do when they are 0-1 down. Which they should have been early in todays game despite their amazing defensive shape. |
But they only have to pick up another 33 or so points over 35 games, so if they can do it in enough of them they’ll give themselves a chance.
I think being a hard side to beat is probably the most important thing for a promoted side tbh.
If we can get 45 points beating a loads of mid table and lower half teams then great, that will be more fun. Guess we will find out soon enough, but let’s remember some of these sides have squads streets ahead of us at the moment and we will have to deal with what comes off the bench in many of these winnable games. [Post edited 5 Sep 20:02]
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| Hull watch on 20:01 - Sep 5 with 340 views | ketton_itfc |
| Hull watch on 19:38 - Sep 5 by pointofblue |
They're fluking it. Sorry, but I'm getting slightly annoyed off with the woe is us post after post on here coupled with the fellating of Hull.
Based on XP:
Town 1.74 - 0.76 Sunderland
Man Utd 4.56 - 2.01 Town
Town 0.73 - 0.66 Liverpool
Hull 1.26 - 1.81 Man Utd
Coventry 1.28 - 0.73 Hull
Hull 0.58 - 1.78 Hull
For all of Hull's superb defending and excellent low block, our xG against is better outside of the Manchester United meltdown. Teams are taking their chances against us. They're not against Hull.
I'm not saying being more solid is a bad thing. But I don't think, when looking deeper than "Oh they haven't conceded yet", Hull is necessarily the approach we should aspire to, unless we know we'll also get their fortune. |
Exactly this! I kind of think GON wanted to use the Manure and Liverpool games as free hits continue using the 4231 rather than 5 at back etc. I think he's been proved right on a few levels even though we lost both. The underlying stats as you say have us as a lower to mid table not a relegation bound team. Of course we can't keep giving goals away and atthe end of the day points are important, lose to both Palace and Everton and things do become tougher.
Hull have done brilliantly so far and if they can keep this up for the season then they deserve to stay up. But I'm quietly confident we can have a good season frpm what I've seen. Just stop the brain fart moments. |  | | |
| Hull watch on 20:04 - Sep 5 with 322 views | Adams |
| Hull watch on 19:49 - Sep 5 by FrimleyBlue |
But we are seeing that we should use the tactics because it works.
Ive no doubt we will end up with a couple of different lineups. But whilst the season is early we need to find our style. That first game and the 40 v utd.. that wins us games against most of id say the botton 10 of the league. Thats what we need so lets get that style and patterns sorted. Then work on the other side.
Hull. Theyll soon find that once that first opponent goal takes the lead.. theyre in a diffrrent world. |
Of course Hull will. If they go behind, they will struggle as they don't have the quality. No one is claiming their tactics are magical and guarantee results.
They are, however, doing what all promoted teams have to do against the top clubs: be hard to play against. We should have been closer to Hull's tactics than the tactics we have used. Personally, I would rather have an extra midfielder than 5 at the back, but we should have been much deeper.
We didn't stand a chance with the tactics we used. | | | |
| Hull watch on 20:06 - Sep 5 with 307 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Hull watch on 20:01 - Sep 5 by ketton_itfc |
Exactly this! I kind of think GON wanted to use the Manure and Liverpool games as free hits continue using the 4231 rather than 5 at back etc. I think he's been proved right on a few levels even though we lost both. The underlying stats as you say have us as a lower to mid table not a relegation bound team. Of course we can't keep giving goals away and atthe end of the day points are important, lose to both Palace and Everton and things do become tougher.
Hull have done brilliantly so far and if they can keep this up for the season then they deserve to stay up. But I'm quietly confident we can have a good season frpm what I've seen. Just stop the brain fart moments. |
Games are not free hits, nicking points of big clubs before the season settles into rhythm could be crucial when all is said and done.
Not to mention having banked points to build from | |
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