| Something is going down in Portsmouth… 22:54 - Sep 6 with 7679 views | SitfcB |
But it’s not yet on BBC or Sky News…?
Why? [Post edited 6 Sep 22:54]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:35 - Sep 7 with 514 views | TheMoralMajority |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:34 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
I work with a huge number of foreign nationals who have come to the UK legally, as skilled workers.
And are fantastic people to have here contributing to the country and daily life.
So if there isn't a legal route, how/why are they here? |
Because there is a difference between skilled migration and asylum seeking. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:37 - Sep 7 with 495 views | Benters |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:34 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
I work with a huge number of foreign nationals who have come to the UK legally, as skilled workers.
And are fantastic people to have here contributing to the country and daily life.
So if there isn't a legal route, how/why are they here? |
Bravo ! Back of the net ! |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:38 - Sep 7 with 495 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:30 - Sep 7 by TheMoralMajority |
Do you actually understand what an asylum seeker is? If you are genuinely seeking asylum, what you are actively trying to escape is very unlikely to give you the time and space to get your paperwork in order. |
As per previous posts. It is has been stated that 1 in 100 is legitimate asylum. That number is probably so low because genuine asylum seekers probably stay in the first 'safe' country they come to, not risk travelling across the channel in a dinghy organised by people traffickers.. |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:41 - Sep 7 with 475 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:32 - Sep 7 by Guthrum |
Illegal migrants are not a burden upon the welfare system. They have no NI number or paperwork to claim benefits. |
Let's take last nights Portsmouth situation as an example.
They were picked up in coaches, given food/ drink, clothes. Will then be provided accomodation, fed and taken care of.
If this isnt a burden on the welfare system, then who is paying for this? | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:44 - Sep 7 with 451 views | DJR |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:34 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
I work with a huge number of foreign nationals who have come to the UK legally, as skilled workers.
And are fantastic people to have here contributing to the country and daily life.
So if there isn't a legal route, how/why are they here? |
Reform, though, propose to abolish leave to remain for many people who have come to this country legally.
At the same time, they propose a new work visa with a much higher salary threshold, meaning many hundreds of thousands of people now here legally will be forced to leave the country.
https://www.reformparty.uk/pol |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:46 - Sep 7 with 440 views | Whos_blue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:08 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
I should have said this to save you from getting all excited and wetting pants in a dig at restore etc
I trust no government to solve the issue. They all talk absolute rubbish, and are untrustworthy. I dont support any party |
Although I'm mid 50s, I'm still thankfully able to maintain dry underwear and my heart rate is ticking along nicely around it's usual average, so not overly excited by our conversation.
I thought it was a reasonable question to be honest and I'm still none the wiser who you think will deliver the solution you seek, whatever that solution may actually be. |  |
| "Look, I don't wanna be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a Mod, see?" |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:54 - Sep 7 with 397 views | Whos_blue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:41 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Let's take last nights Portsmouth situation as an example.
They were picked up in coaches, given food/ drink, clothes. Will then be provided accomodation, fed and taken care of.
If this isnt a burden on the welfare system, then who is paying for this? |
How exactly do you propose they're treated once they've arrived?
I accept you don't want them here. Some here agree with you. But is it completely unacceptable to you that we give them a civilised welcome?
It may well be, but personally I'd rather see people treated as human beings rather than just considered a drain. | |
| "Look, I don't wanna be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a Mod, see?" |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:54 - Sep 7 with 394 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:38 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
As per previous posts. It is has been stated that 1 in 100 is legitimate asylum. That number is probably so low because genuine asylum seekers probably stay in the first 'safe' country they come to, not risk travelling across the channel in a dinghy organised by people traffickers.. |
But you haven't read the previous posts properly have you? I will copy and paste my previous response to the 1 in 100 claim...
This year 38% of applications were granted. Whilst no system is perfect, it's a notable decrease reflecting stricter rules being applied.
If the whistle blower is correct then you have to assume that 37 out of every 38 applications being granted are wrong for some reason. What is more likely on the information available? That the vast majority of decisions are wrong or that the completely anonymous source who offers no evidence to support the claim, is mistaken lying or biased? | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:58 - Sep 7 with 365 views | noggin |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:41 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Let's take last nights Portsmouth situation as an example.
They were picked up in coaches, given food/ drink, clothes. Will then be provided accomodation, fed and taken care of.
If this isnt a burden on the welfare system, then who is paying for this? |
So we just let them starve or freeze to death then? I honestly don't think that's what you'd want, is it? |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:59 - Sep 7 with 363 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:54 - Sep 7 by Whos_blue |
How exactly do you propose they're treated once they've arrived?
I accept you don't want them here. Some here agree with you. But is it completely unacceptable to you that we give them a civilised welcome?
It may well be, but personally I'd rather see people treated as human beings rather than just considered a drain. |
Honestly, we should not be welcoming in my opinion. Basic food and water while they are put into a basic holding centre while their claim is processed. It shouldnt seen as a butlins or all inclsuive holiday while a decision is made.
The main point is that we should not make the UK such an attractive propostion for those who will be a burden on the system. This btw does include UK born people. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:02 - Sep 7 with 354 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:41 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Let's take last nights Portsmouth situation as an example.
They were picked up in coaches, given food/ drink, clothes. Will then be provided accomodation, fed and taken care of.
If this isnt a burden on the welfare system, then who is paying for this? |
Border Force, I would presume. Or the police. But not the DWP.
With any other kind of enforcement, e.g. using the Navy, the cost would fall upon the taxpayer, too. [Post edited 7 Sep 12:04]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:03 - Sep 7 with 351 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:54 - Sep 7 by redrickstuhaart |
But you haven't read the previous posts properly have you? I will copy and paste my previous response to the 1 in 100 claim...
This year 38% of applications were granted. Whilst no system is perfect, it's a notable decrease reflecting stricter rules being applied.
If the whistle blower is correct then you have to assume that 37 out of every 38 applications being granted are wrong for some reason. What is more likely on the information available? That the vast majority of decisions are wrong or that the completely anonymous source who offers no evidence to support the claim, is mistaken lying or biased? |
I would say that most applications are not legitimate given the countries they have passed through to get here.
If the UK wasn't such an attractive proposition then they would remain in one of the countries previously passed through. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:08 - Sep 7 with 325 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:59 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Honestly, we should not be welcoming in my opinion. Basic food and water while they are put into a basic holding centre while their claim is processed. It shouldnt seen as a butlins or all inclsuive holiday while a decision is made.
The main point is that we should not make the UK such an attractive propostion for those who will be a burden on the system. This btw does include UK born people. |
It isn't a Butlin's holiday camp. It's four-to-a-room, no income and left to stew with little freedom while their cases are added to the immense backlog for the underfunded immigration services to process.
The UK will always be an attractive proposition so long as we are a prosperous and politically stable nation. Particularly when we are cutting aid budgets which might help keep people in their own countries of origin and our allies are busy trashing places and/or supporting oppressive regimes. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:09 - Sep 7 with 323 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:03 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
I would say that most applications are not legitimate given the countries they have passed through to get here.
If the UK wasn't such an attractive proposition then they would remain in one of the countries previously passed through. |
Not willing to engage with reason or facts then?
Like so many reform leaning folks, information and reason are not of interest. What is important is what you 'reckon'. Had enough of experts etc etc
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:12 - Sep 7 with 305 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:02 - Sep 7 by Guthrum |
Border Force, I would presume. Or the police. But not the DWP.
With any other kind of enforcement, e.g. using the Navy, the cost would fall upon the taxpayer, too. [Post edited 7 Sep 12:04]
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I'll continue using the same example and the response you have offered up.
If it's the Border Force, they're literally a Home Office agency, funded straight out of general taxation, so any processing they do on arrival is taxpayer money
If it's the Police, then it's still yes because they're a publicly funded, paid via council tax and central government, so if they're providing transport/escort duties that's still coming out of your (I assume) and my pocket.
The following accommodation/food/clothes, that's Home Office asylum support but still taxpayer funded, just a different pot. It's just paid through a different government department. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:14 - Sep 7 with 291 views | Billywitch |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:46 - Sep 7 by Whos_blue |
Although I'm mid 50s, I'm still thankfully able to maintain dry underwear and my heart rate is ticking along nicely around it's usual average, so not overly excited by our conversation.
I thought it was a reasonable question to be honest and I'm still none the wiser who you think will deliver the solution you seek, whatever that solution may actually be. |
I dont think any of them will.
Hope that answers it for you | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:16 - Sep 7 with 277 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:09 - Sep 7 by redrickstuhaart |
Not willing to engage with reason or facts then?
Like so many reform leaning folks, information and reason are not of interest. What is important is what you 'reckon'. Had enough of experts etc etc
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What on earth are you talking about. If we made the UK less attractive in terms of what we give away then of course we wouldnt get the same amount of people trying to arrive.
It's called 'pull factor'. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:16 - Sep 7 with 276 views | Billywitch |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:35 - Sep 7 by TheMoralMajority |
Because there is a difference between skilled migration and asylum seeking. |
Leave it as we only take in skilled workers via skilled migration then.
That way we don't need to be financially responsible for thousands of people that aren't skilled workers, or provided the country with anything.
(we can then focus on internal matters, such as getting British people into unskilled roles, creating spaces in prisons etc etc.... all things that the previous government failed to do - but this one dont seem much better)
Or is that completely unfeasible? [Post edited 7 Sep 12:20]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:19 - Sep 7 with 268 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:12 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
I'll continue using the same example and the response you have offered up.
If it's the Border Force, they're literally a Home Office agency, funded straight out of general taxation, so any processing they do on arrival is taxpayer money
If it's the Police, then it's still yes because they're a publicly funded, paid via council tax and central government, so if they're providing transport/escort duties that's still coming out of your (I assume) and my pocket.
The following accommodation/food/clothes, that's Home Office asylum support but still taxpayer funded, just a different pot. It's just paid through a different government department. |
We have a legal obligation to accept applications and assess them. I know you’d like to make their lives a misery while their claim is being processed, but thankfully we do at least offer basic shelter and food (in pretty grim conditions sometimes).
What’s the solution then if you don’t think any public funds should be spent on them? Leave them where they land? How long do you think they’d sit there? They’d be picked up by gangs and disappear in no time. So they have to be collected and processed. How do you propose that’s done without it costing any money? |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:21 - Sep 7 with 261 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:16 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
Leave it as we only take in skilled workers via skilled migration then.
That way we don't need to be financially responsible for thousands of people that aren't skilled workers, or provided the country with anything.
(we can then focus on internal matters, such as getting British people into unskilled roles, creating spaces in prisons etc etc.... all things that the previous government failed to do - but this one dont seem much better)
Or is that completely unfeasible? [Post edited 7 Sep 12:20]
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So no refugees or asylum claims at all then. In breach of all our international legal obligations? Howuch cooperation do you think we will get from the French on this if we simply dick out of long standing treaties? How would we physically send people back? | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:21 - Sep 7 with 256 views | Blueschev |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:41 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Let's take last nights Portsmouth situation as an example.
They were picked up in coaches, given food/ drink, clothes. Will then be provided accomodation, fed and taken care of.
If this isnt a burden on the welfare system, then who is paying for this? |
If they're claiming asylum, they're not illegal until such time as their application fails. Once you're classed as an "illegal immigrant", you're not entitled to work, claim any benefits and you will be deported.
I appreciate that it was pointless me typing the above, as people choose just to ignore it anyway. |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:24 - Sep 7 with 239 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:12 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
I'll continue using the same example and the response you have offered up.
If it's the Border Force, they're literally a Home Office agency, funded straight out of general taxation, so any processing they do on arrival is taxpayer money
If it's the Police, then it's still yes because they're a publicly funded, paid via council tax and central government, so if they're providing transport/escort duties that's still coming out of your (I assume) and my pocket.
The following accommodation/food/clothes, that's Home Office asylum support but still taxpayer funded, just a different pot. It's just paid through a different government department. |
Any protection of our borders will come out of the common purse, funded by taxation. That includes the Royal Navy.
Given there is no practical way of turning off global migration at source, we are going to have to spend our money on dealing with these people. Feeding, housing, processing and, where appropriate, deporting. That last also requiring significant diplomatic agreements with the countries we'd be sending them to - which may themselves cost us money (e.g. the abortive Rwanda scheme). [Post edited 7 Sep 12:25]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:25 - Sep 7 with 233 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:44 - Sep 7 by DJR |
Reform, though, propose to abolish leave to remain for many people who have come to this country legally.
At the same time, they propose a new work visa with a much higher salary threshold, meaning many hundreds of thousands of people now here legally will be forced to leave the country.
https://www.reformparty.uk/pol |
Including people who may have been here longer than they’ve lived anywhere else and/ or be married to a Brit and/or have British kids or who are performing vital jobs and/or doing volunteer work. Members of their communities in other words.
Breaking up families and communities to scratch their racism itch. Reform and their racist supporters are such small-minded, vindictive and petty people. They’re quite anti-British in some ways. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:25 - Sep 7 with 236 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:08 - Sep 7 by Guthrum |
It isn't a Butlin's holiday camp. It's four-to-a-room, no income and left to stew with little freedom while their cases are added to the immense backlog for the underfunded immigration services to process.
The UK will always be an attractive proposition so long as we are a prosperous and politically stable nation. Particularly when we are cutting aid budgets which might help keep people in their own countries of origin and our allies are busy trashing places and/or supporting oppressive regimes. |
We're spending £8m+ a day on hotels.. so I'm really hopeful conditions arent as basic as you state. Nothing wrong with repurposing old MOD bases and prisons as holding centres.
France and Germany are just as prosperous and stable, yet most are pushing through these countries to get here specifically. If political stability was a key factor then the flow of perople would stop at the first safe country, not carry on to the UK. Something else is doing the work there.
The aid cuts / allies trashing places argument, whatever's driving people from their home countries in the first place, it doesn't explain or excuse why the UK specifically gets picked over every other safe country on the route. Unless it's the Pull factor.. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:33 - Sep 7 with 203 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:25 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
We're spending £8m+ a day on hotels.. so I'm really hopeful conditions arent as basic as you state. Nothing wrong with repurposing old MOD bases and prisons as holding centres.
France and Germany are just as prosperous and stable, yet most are pushing through these countries to get here specifically. If political stability was a key factor then the flow of perople would stop at the first safe country, not carry on to the UK. Something else is doing the work there.
The aid cuts / allies trashing places argument, whatever's driving people from their home countries in the first place, it doesn't explain or excuse why the UK specifically gets picked over every other safe country on the route. Unless it's the Pull factor.. |
Conditions are that basic. Holding centres, a.k.a. dilapidated old military bases, are no improvement, nor are they really much cheaper (requiring staffing, infrastructure and supply), plus still attracting the same hostility.
France and Germany have received very large numbers of migrants themselves. What we are getting is just one stream, the overflow of what Europe has already taken. However, we cannot expect Italy, Greece and Spain (the main points of entry) to take all the immigrants, especially without financial support from those they would be shielding. | |
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