| Why are there so many "religious" players now? 13:31 - Sep 13 with 10342 views | Meadowlark |
Do any of our players point to the sky when they walk on to the pitch?
Ive just been watching MOTD and there's quite a lot of this nonsense.
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:49 - Sep 14 with 945 views | Olcol |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:13 - Sep 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Saying atheism is a belief system is like saying not going skiing is a hobby. |
I am an atheist? But skiing is my religion. |  | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:55 - Sep 14 with 930 views | leitrimblue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:49 - Sep 14 by Olcol |
I am an atheist? But skiing is my religion. |
Its all downhill from here though mate |  | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:57 - Sep 14 with 913 views | baxterbasics |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:55 - Sep 14 by leitrimblue |
Its all downhill from here though mate |
Can be a slippery slope once you head down that path. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:58 - Sep 14 with 904 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:57 - Sep 14 by baxterbasics |
Can be a slippery slope once you head down that path. |
Yeah and then it all snowballs. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:24 - Sep 14 with 781 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 12:42 - Sep 14 by positivity |
they're preaching that everyone is equal whilst giving themselves and party members, preferential treatment. "animal farm" breaks this down in a digestible way.
every belief system has moral rules
what i'm saying is don't "other" people, and judge them differently because of how they present.
a person professing to be a jew who abuses children, should be treated equally as harshly as a person professing to be a communist who does the same crime |
para1. I don't get that you don't get the difference between that & organised religions, which are preached about & given special recognition, status and acceptance worldwide.
para 3. I do *not*, and never will, *other* people or judge them "differently". I will always callout hypocrisy though, wherever it presents.
para 4. Of course. *Obviously*. Where has anyone said they shouldn't be?
We'll just have to agree to disagree with each other, where we do, on this. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:09 - Sep 14 with 719 views | Meadowlark |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 21:36 - Sep 13 by Smoresy |
*Thank you. |
Thank you. | | | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:11 - Sep 14 with 718 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:24 - Sep 14 by Ryorry |
para1. I don't get that you don't get the difference between that & organised religions, which are preached about & given special recognition, status and acceptance worldwide.
para 3. I do *not*, and never will, *other* people or judge them "differently". I will always callout hypocrisy though, wherever it presents.
para 4. Of course. *Obviously*. Where has anyone said they shouldn't be?
We'll just have to agree to disagree with each other, where we do, on this. |
Thought I'd add that I found it very difficult to verbally explain what I mean.
After going to make a cuppa! what I was trying to say that in this country (UK) where the political system isn't communism/a dictatorship; & religion is allowed, those professing to follow a faith with a moral code are in effect claiming to live more ethically than us mere secular folk.
So when they don't, but continue preaching their faith, that comes across to me as particularly hypocritical - something that doesn't necessarily apply to those not claiming to follow any religious codes (although most would of course say they like to live ethically - not lying, stealing cheating etc. anyway). | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:32 - Sep 14 with 695 views | monty_radio |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:11 - Sep 14 by Ryorry |
Thought I'd add that I found it very difficult to verbally explain what I mean.
After going to make a cuppa! what I was trying to say that in this country (UK) where the political system isn't communism/a dictatorship; & religion is allowed, those professing to follow a faith with a moral code are in effect claiming to live more ethically than us mere secular folk.
So when they don't, but continue preaching their faith, that comes across to me as particularly hypocritical - something that doesn't necessarily apply to those not claiming to follow any religious codes (although most would of course say they like to live ethically - not lying, stealing cheating etc. anyway). |
You paint a picture of people such as Christians constantly telling others how to live. In our contemporary world there would be nothing that stood out in that. Conservationists, Vegans, Fitness devotees can be regularly found across the media telling others how they ought to proceed. The Christians that I know would shy away from telling people how to live moral lives, even according to their Biblical understanding. Indeed, much of Christian devotion is geared towards pointing up our failure to live as The Lord showed, to ask forgiveness for the same, and to direct our thoughts towards thankfulness. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:34 - Sep 14 with 692 views | positivity |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:11 - Sep 14 by Ryorry |
Thought I'd add that I found it very difficult to verbally explain what I mean.
After going to make a cuppa! what I was trying to say that in this country (UK) where the political system isn't communism/a dictatorship; & religion is allowed, those professing to follow a faith with a moral code are in effect claiming to live more ethically than us mere secular folk.
So when they don't, but continue preaching their faith, that comes across to me as particularly hypocritical - something that doesn't necessarily apply to those not claiming to follow any religious codes (although most would of course say they like to live ethically - not lying, stealing cheating etc. anyway). |
fair enough.
i see as much hypocritical self-righteousness from secular right-wing politicians, self-professed animal lovers etc etc as christians, jews or muslims, but i guess different things push different people's buttons! | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:58 - Sep 14 with 672 views | Trequartista |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 09:29 - Sep 14 by chicoazul |
Atheists really hate it when they’re correctly told their beliefs are no more or less valid than anyone else’s. Who can imagine why? |
Depends on which type of Atheist. I don't really know why we have the same word for two different sets of people.
Atheists can be people who believe there is no god, and they can be people who don't believe in a god. There's a subtle difference.
The former group are the ones you say have their own unprovable belief system - they reject any idea of a god. The latter don't reject the idea of a god, they just haven't found a god, or anything else that they believe in. They are confused with Agnostics. Agnostics are everybody, because everyone "doesn't know". [Post edited 14 Sep 17:02]
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 18:38 - Sep 14 with 594 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:58 - Sep 14 by Trequartista |
Depends on which type of Atheist. I don't really know why we have the same word for two different sets of people.
Atheists can be people who believe there is no god, and they can be people who don't believe in a god. There's a subtle difference.
The former group are the ones you say have their own unprovable belief system - they reject any idea of a god. The latter don't reject the idea of a god, they just haven't found a god, or anything else that they believe in. They are confused with Agnostics. Agnostics are everybody, because everyone "doesn't know". [Post edited 14 Sep 17:02]
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I am going to suggest there are very few of the former example, and even fewer who have actually thought it through and can discuss it. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 19:00 - Sep 14 with 572 views | Smoresy |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:11 - Sep 14 by Ryorry |
Thought I'd add that I found it very difficult to verbally explain what I mean.
After going to make a cuppa! what I was trying to say that in this country (UK) where the political system isn't communism/a dictatorship; & religion is allowed, those professing to follow a faith with a moral code are in effect claiming to live more ethically than us mere secular folk.
So when they don't, but continue preaching their faith, that comes across to me as particularly hypocritical - something that doesn't necessarily apply to those not claiming to follow any religious codes (although most would of course say they like to live ethically - not lying, stealing cheating etc. anyway). |
A good God-fearing person has the afterlife to consider in addition to their country's laws and moral compass. A good atheist removes that from their equation probably but is good nonetheless.
Believers may live more enlightened lives but would many claim to live more ethically too? Maybe they would! But from my perspective the inverse is if anything more compelling, because you have fewer reasons ultimately to behave yourself, Ryorry. Fewer ulterior motives. (I've never thought of believers or non-believers as more ethical "out of the gate" in truth.) | | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 19:01 - Sep 14 with 571 views | armchaircritic59 |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 22:26 - Sep 13 by OldFootball |
Lampard invented it |
Couldn't have done, there'd be no point(s) in it :) |  | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 20:49 - Sep 14 with 489 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:32 - Sep 14 by monty_radio |
You paint a picture of people such as Christians constantly telling others how to live. In our contemporary world there would be nothing that stood out in that. Conservationists, Vegans, Fitness devotees can be regularly found across the media telling others how they ought to proceed. The Christians that I know would shy away from telling people how to live moral lives, even according to their Biblical understanding. Indeed, much of Christian devotion is geared towards pointing up our failure to live as The Lord showed, to ask forgiveness for the same, and to direct our thoughts towards thankfulness. |
Lucky you if you haven't had Jehovah's Witnesses round!
I don't mean only people preaching at others; I also mean the way religious leaders and regular churchgoers (particularly Christians in the UK) are regularly assumed to be upstanding/outstanding people - eg "but he was a pillar of the community" (in shocked tone, after someone was uncovered & convicted as a paedophile).
Don't think people would be describing vegans or fitness gurus in those terms! | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 20:56 - Sep 14 with 485 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 19:00 - Sep 14 by Smoresy |
A good God-fearing person has the afterlife to consider in addition to their country's laws and moral compass. A good atheist removes that from their equation probably but is good nonetheless.
Believers may live more enlightened lives but would many claim to live more ethically too? Maybe they would! But from my perspective the inverse is if anything more compelling, because you have fewer reasons ultimately to behave yourself, Ryorry. Fewer ulterior motives. (I've never thought of believers or non-believers as more ethical "out of the gate" in truth.) |
I have every reason to "behave myself" thanks - I find treating others as I'd like to be treated myself, and a bit of imagination/empathy, quite sufficient - don't need a historical figure or myths about an afterlife or whatever to persuade me! | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 21:03 - Sep 14 with 469 views | grow_our_own |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:45 - Sep 13 by The_Flashing_Smile |
‘Therefore let us not stop passing to one another. Also, make up your mind to put in a tackle or block in the way of an opposition player.’
O'Neil 14:45 |
'I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger. You will know I am the Lord.'
Exequiel 15:00 |  | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 21:26 - Sep 14 with 436 views | Smoresy |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 20:56 - Sep 14 by Ryorry |
I have every reason to "behave myself" thanks - I find treating others as I'd like to be treated myself, and a bit of imagination/empathy, quite sufficient - don't need a historical figure or myths about an afterlife or whatever to persuade me! |
Indeed! 😅 | | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 23:47 - Sep 14 with 361 views | mellowblue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:58 - Sep 14 by Trequartista |
Depends on which type of Atheist. I don't really know why we have the same word for two different sets of people.
Atheists can be people who believe there is no god, and they can be people who don't believe in a god. There's a subtle difference.
The former group are the ones you say have their own unprovable belief system - they reject any idea of a god. The latter don't reject the idea of a god, they just haven't found a god, or anything else that they believe in. They are confused with Agnostics. Agnostics are everybody, because everyone "doesn't know". [Post edited 14 Sep 17:02]
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that is a fairly narrow description of agnosticism, another more usual interpretation is being not committed to believing in the existence or the nonexistence of God or any gods, ie sitting on the fence. That does not apply to everybody, not by a long chalk. | | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 23:58 - Sep 14 with 345 views | mellowblue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:11 - Sep 14 by Ryorry |
Thought I'd add that I found it very difficult to verbally explain what I mean.
After going to make a cuppa! what I was trying to say that in this country (UK) where the political system isn't communism/a dictatorship; & religion is allowed, those professing to follow a faith with a moral code are in effect claiming to live more ethically than us mere secular folk.
So when they don't, but continue preaching their faith, that comes across to me as particularly hypocritical - something that doesn't necessarily apply to those not claiming to follow any religious codes (although most would of course say they like to live ethically - not lying, stealing cheating etc. anyway). |
I don't believe that people of religion are claiming to live a more moral lifestyle than secular people, certainly not on the christian side of things (not knowing any muslims or jews). I don't think there is that level of judgementism or putting themselves on pedestals. And certainly do not accept that they think they have a monopoly on living morally good lives. I think there is a general acceptance that secular folk can have a moral compass and lead good lives too, probably proportionately the same as believers. It is a bit of a divisive statement you have made. | | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 00:28 - Sep 15 with 329 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 23:58 - Sep 14 by mellowblue |
I don't believe that people of religion are claiming to live a more moral lifestyle than secular people, certainly not on the christian side of things (not knowing any muslims or jews). I don't think there is that level of judgementism or putting themselves on pedestals. And certainly do not accept that they think they have a monopoly on living morally good lives. I think there is a general acceptance that secular folk can have a moral compass and lead good lives too, probably proportionately the same as believers. It is a bit of a divisive statement you have made. |
Sorry you think it divisive; I disagree, am going purely by what I personally have seen/experienced throughout my (now happily pretty long) life - with the qualifier that it’s only implied by *some*, not all, who practice a faith.
I’d add that I’ve met a handful of Buddhists in my time who seemed the honourable exception, all adhering very closely to their code - tiny sample size though obviously! | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:08 - Sep 15 with 261 views | WeWereZombies |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 23:47 - Sep 14 by mellowblue |
that is a fairly narrow description of agnosticism, another more usual interpretation is being not committed to believing in the existence or the nonexistence of God or any gods, ie sitting on the fence. That does not apply to everybody, not by a long chalk. |
I agree that labelling everyone as agnostic because none of us know whether there was a prime mover or not is a false description. I think it is more appropriate to say that there are those who don't know that they don't know, those who are unsure that they don't know and those who know that they don't know. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:19 - Sep 15 with 250 views | Dyland |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:08 - Sep 15 by WeWereZombies |
I agree that labelling everyone as agnostic because none of us know whether there was a prime mover or not is a false description. I think it is more appropriate to say that there are those who don't know that they don't know, those who are unsure that they don't know and those who know that they don't know. |
Agnosticism is closer to religious belief than atheism imo. I say closer, rather than the same.
Agnosticism is traditionally the position that we cannot truly know. Atheism, as discussed, is the rejection of belief in god/s based on a lack of evidence or faith. Atheists don't reject the possibility there are gods.
Agnosticism in the old sense of the term probably isn't so common these days and most 'non-believers' or people who are unsure are actually atheists even though they may not feel comfortable with the term.
People will disagree with me obviously. This is largely a semantic and etymological discussion. Which is cool. And anyway, I'm just a humanist innit. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:23 - Sep 15 with 235 views | iamatractorboy |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 23:58 - Sep 14 by mellowblue |
I don't believe that people of religion are claiming to live a more moral lifestyle than secular people, certainly not on the christian side of things (not knowing any muslims or jews). I don't think there is that level of judgementism or putting themselves on pedestals. And certainly do not accept that they think they have a monopoly on living morally good lives. I think there is a general acceptance that secular folk can have a moral compass and lead good lives too, probably proportionately the same as believers. It is a bit of a divisive statement you have made. |
Purely anecdotal this, but I have certainly met some Christians who believed they were morally superior. I went to a wedding once and was told, whilst listening to the groom's speech, believe it or not, that anyone who didn't share his belief in the Almighty was going to burn for eternity. I'm not joking. I nearly got up amd walked out in the middle of his speech. | | | |
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