| Chambers and Skuse 08:44 - Sep 4 with 7998 views | itfcjoe |
Interesting stuff this in a great piece from Noel Hunt, although I'm sure some will read this and still think they only play because they are Mick's 'proper blokes' despite all the evidence to the contrary.
This is one of my concerns about why senior players need to be kept onside and worry with spiky approach so far.
http://www.the42.ie/noel-hunt-interview-4210954-Sep2018/
“That chance to go to Ipswich, it was like a saviour, like I’d gone to heaven. Mick McCarthy, TC [his assistant, Terry Connor], they were so good to me, the fans were amazing.
“I scored in the first game and the relief – I remember I was sitting on the train coming back to Leeds. I went down on the Thursday train, played on the Saturday morning on the telly live on Sky, I was crying on the train [afterwards] for about an hour. It was such relief and happiness that I proved myself. I’d proven all the doubts in my own head wrong. Even my wife, she was just so happy when I came home.
“She couldn’t stop smiling and laughing all day. It was just nice, a lovely part of football.”
Hunt credits McCarthy and others at the club for helping to rejuvenate his career.
“[Mick is] a lovely man, a simple man, played the game right – just chilled and relaxed, wanted things done like he asked.
When I went to Ipswich, it was a dressing room. You had these big characters who were the best people in football – Luke Chambers, who is underrated and not often spoke of, he’s still there now as captain. Whatever he earns in football, he deserves, and more. For what he does, the way he has the dressing room, how he conducts himself, how his teams conduct themselves.
“Cole Skuse, he’s still there, he’s another absolute diamond. Strong people and a strong dressing room is what makes a dressing room successful.
“It doesn’t matter who [else] you have, it doesn’t matter the quality of the player. If you have Mick McCarthy, TC, people like Luke Chambers, Cole Skuse, and you put in 15 average players, they will do okay for you. They will not be relegated. They will hold their own, and overachieve, because of the people that are involved.” |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 08:50 - Sep 4 with 5744 views | Deano69 |
Nice article but fully points out the issue, ‘they will do ok and not get relegated’ which is admirable but at the same time not much of a spectator sport. |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 08:54 - Sep 4 with 5714 views | Steve_M |
| Chambers and Skuse on 08:50 - Sep 4 by Deano69 |
Nice article but fully points out the issue, ‘they will do ok and not get relegated’ which is admirable but at the same time not much of a spectator sport. |
Perhaps, but there's not a lot of enjoyment to be had in being relegated either. |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:05 - Sep 4 with 5631 views | Wacko |
It's very interesting they're the only two players he names (other than his brother) but:
- it's not as if they're the only two players in world football who have strong characters
- I'm all for having a cohesive team rather than individual players (like Reading went for so disastrously as Hunt intimates), but if the players don't physically fit into the system (in terms of agility / ability) then no amount of character will solve this
- change is good
I'd love them both to be around the club for a few more years, I'm sure their experience and motivation is invaluable, but I'd prefer it if they were used tactically and sparingly |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:07 - Sep 4 with 5613 views | Steve_M |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:05 - Sep 4 by Wacko |
It's very interesting they're the only two players he names (other than his brother) but:
- it's not as if they're the only two players in world football who have strong characters
- I'm all for having a cohesive team rather than individual players (like Reading went for so disastrously as Hunt intimates), but if the players don't physically fit into the system (in terms of agility / ability) then no amount of character will solve this
- change is good
I'd love them both to be around the club for a few more years, I'm sure their experience and motivation is invaluable, but I'd prefer it if they were used tactically and sparingly |
You did read the bit about Reading where he talked about the club bringing players in on big money who didn't fit the ethos of the squad that got promoted? | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:16 - Sep 4 with 5550 views | Bluefish |
The strange thing is he is confirming the things that normal people on here have been saying for years. As I've said before I've been lucky enough to be in the dressing room on a match day and chambers influence is enormous, spend any time at all with chambers and skuse and you get see what great blokes they are. Both a pleasure to be around, They are also both massively underrated as players |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:24 - Sep 4 with 5493 views | Wacko |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:07 - Sep 4 by Steve_M |
You did read the bit about Reading where he talked about the club bringing players in on big money who didn't fit the ethos of the squad that got promoted? |
You did read the bit where I mentioned Reading?
The fact is character means nothing if performances aren't good enough, in the same way that ability means nothing without character (like these big money Reading players clearly lacked).
The dream is finding big characters like Deeney or Murray but who still lead by example on the pitch in terms of performances and consistency | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:31 - Sep 4 with 5451 views | Guthrum |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:16 - Sep 4 by Bluefish |
The strange thing is he is confirming the things that normal people on here have been saying for years. As I've said before I've been lucky enough to be in the dressing room on a match day and chambers influence is enormous, spend any time at all with chambers and skuse and you get see what great blokes they are. Both a pleasure to be around, They are also both massively underrated as players |
Was very impressed with Skuse when he came to speak to the South West supporters group in Bristol. Switched on bloke. |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:33 - Sep 4 with 5429 views | unstableblue |
Whilst I think it's a good article.
The minority on the board who are beginning to reminisce about Mick and use it to question Hurst's methods is just a little misguided in my humble opinion.
Yes our league is bad, yes the concerns on attacking threat are valid. But I like a lot of what's going on, I like a lot of the players that have been brought in, and in a number of matches including villa and 20mins against we've played good stuff.
You can't escape the standard of football in the last two seasons, it was very very poor. It has improved this term, but without the results.
Noel Hunt last played for Ipswich in 2014/15, that's when he was playing for Mick, and when Micks system and training was still paying some dividends on the pitch. That's when he was playing with Chambo and Skuse. He only played for us 11 times. It's hardly a yard stick for life under Hurst.
Chambo and Bart have cost us goals. Hurst clearly rates Chambo as a leader, Skuse is a preferred starter on merit.
Give Hurst the benefit of the doubt, give him September, then perhaps compare. But don't use the last two seasons under Mick as the comparator. [Post edited 4 Sep 2018 9:44]
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:33 - Sep 4 with 5425 views | Guthrum |
| Chambers and Skuse on 08:50 - Sep 4 by Deano69 |
Nice article but fully points out the issue, ‘they will do ok and not get relegated’ which is admirable but at the same time not much of a spectator sport. |
You have to not get relegated in order to mount a promotion push. | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:33 - Sep 4 with 5424 views | Superfrans |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:16 - Sep 4 by Bluefish |
The strange thing is he is confirming the things that normal people on here have been saying for years. As I've said before I've been lucky enough to be in the dressing room on a match day and chambers influence is enormous, spend any time at all with chambers and skuse and you get see what great blokes they are. Both a pleasure to be around, They are also both massively underrated as players |
It baffles me that people continue to not understand this, or do they choose not to? I'm not sure.
Of course, there are other leaders at other clubs. But there is a chemistry when the right players come together. That is not easy to capture, at all. You only have to look at the team/squad attitude under Jewell and how it changed very quickly in the early years of you know who.
We should appreciate what we have with Skuse and Chambers. Walters is a similar type, I would say.
You can have as many Celinas, Lawrences, Gios as you like (and they are important players to have in the mix, of course) but someone has to knit them together with the rest of the team/squad.
People like Skuse, Chambers and Walters are the glue for a team like ours. |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:43 - Sep 4 with 5332 views | Guthrum |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:33 - Sep 4 by unstableblue |
Whilst I think it's a good article.
The minority on the board who are beginning to reminisce about Mick and use it to question Hurst's methods is just a little misguided in my humble opinion.
Yes our league is bad, yes the concerns on attacking threat are valid. But I like a lot of what's going on, I like a lot of the players that have been brought in, and in a number of matches including villa and 20mins against we've played good stuff.
You can't escape the standard of football in the last two seasons, it was very very poor. It has improved this term, but without the results.
Noel Hunt last played for Ipswich in 2014/15, that's when he was playing for Mick, and when Micks system and training was still paying some dividends on the pitch. That's when he was playing with Chambo and Skuse. He only played for us 11 times. It's hardly a yard stick for life under Hurst.
Chambo and Bart have cost us goals. Hurst clearly rates Chambo as a leader, Skuse is a preferred starter on merit.
Give Hurst the benefit of the doubt, give him September, then perhaps compare. But don't use the last two seasons under Mick as the comparator. [Post edited 4 Sep 2018 9:44]
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It's possible to take on board what Hunt says without using it as a stick to beat Hurst.
After all, the players he mentions are still an integral part of the current team. And McCarthy being a good manager doesn't make Hurst a bad one, it's not a binary situation. | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:48 - Sep 4 with 5293 views | itfcjoe |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:33 - Sep 4 by unstableblue |
Whilst I think it's a good article.
The minority on the board who are beginning to reminisce about Mick and use it to question Hurst's methods is just a little misguided in my humble opinion.
Yes our league is bad, yes the concerns on attacking threat are valid. But I like a lot of what's going on, I like a lot of the players that have been brought in, and in a number of matches including villa and 20mins against we've played good stuff.
You can't escape the standard of football in the last two seasons, it was very very poor. It has improved this term, but without the results.
Noel Hunt last played for Ipswich in 2014/15, that's when he was playing for Mick, and when Micks system and training was still paying some dividends on the pitch. That's when he was playing with Chambo and Skuse. He only played for us 11 times. It's hardly a yard stick for life under Hurst.
Chambo and Bart have cost us goals. Hurst clearly rates Chambo as a leader, Skuse is a preferred starter on merit.
Give Hurst the benefit of the doubt, give him September, then perhaps compare. But don't use the last two seasons under Mick as the comparator. [Post edited 4 Sep 2018 9:44]
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Why does everything need to be compared back and forth? I think Mick is/was a good manager here adn hope that Hurst will be too - but Hurst needs to do something to prove that here as his start has been pretty poor.
This is how everything always starts, the same people that liked Jewell, hated Mick, the ones that liked Keane, didn't like Jewell. Too many people take the binary opposite opinion of managers to the next one.
The only manager I've truly despised when he was in charge of town (not on a personal level) was Paul Jewell because he was doing such damage to the club in my view. Mick did a good job and with 4 top half finishes in 5 seasons that is a very good record.
Hurst has it all to prove, and needs to do so quickly - but please don't think that means I'm not behind him, I'm absolutely desperate for him to do well, I like the bloke, I like what he is trying to do, but I have my concerns with the way he has gone about a few things. | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:51 - Sep 4 with 5240 views | unstableblue |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:43 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
It's possible to take on board what Hunt says without using it as a stick to beat Hurst.
After all, the players he mentions are still an integral part of the current team. And McCarthy being a good manager doesn't make Hurst a bad one, it's not a binary situation. |
I agree with the article on the chambo and Skuse point as per my reply.
Perhaps I’ve been reading too many of the negativity to hurst and the rose tinted mick comments over there last few days. | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:53 - Sep 4 with 5216 views | unstableblue |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:48 - Sep 4 by itfcjoe |
Why does everything need to be compared back and forth? I think Mick is/was a good manager here adn hope that Hurst will be too - but Hurst needs to do something to prove that here as his start has been pretty poor.
This is how everything always starts, the same people that liked Jewell, hated Mick, the ones that liked Keane, didn't like Jewell. Too many people take the binary opposite opinion of managers to the next one.
The only manager I've truly despised when he was in charge of town (not on a personal level) was Paul Jewell because he was doing such damage to the club in my view. Mick did a good job and with 4 top half finishes in 5 seasons that is a very good record.
Hurst has it all to prove, and needs to do so quickly - but please don't think that means I'm not behind him, I'm absolutely desperate for him to do well, I like the bloke, I like what he is trying to do, but I have my concerns with the way he has gone about a few things. |
Apologies Joe there has been a lot of very stupid posts on this board with harsh criticism of hurst, many combined with rose tinted references to Mick.
On reflection I don’t think you’re post was one of them. | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 09:55 - Sep 4 with 5215 views | Dubtractor |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:48 - Sep 4 by itfcjoe |
Why does everything need to be compared back and forth? I think Mick is/was a good manager here adn hope that Hurst will be too - but Hurst needs to do something to prove that here as his start has been pretty poor.
This is how everything always starts, the same people that liked Jewell, hated Mick, the ones that liked Keane, didn't like Jewell. Too many people take the binary opposite opinion of managers to the next one.
The only manager I've truly despised when he was in charge of town (not on a personal level) was Paul Jewell because he was doing such damage to the club in my view. Mick did a good job and with 4 top half finishes in 5 seasons that is a very good record.
Hurst has it all to prove, and needs to do so quickly - but please don't think that means I'm not behind him, I'm absolutely desperate for him to do well, I like the bloke, I like what he is trying to do, but I have my concerns with the way he has gone about a few things. |
"This is how everything always starts, the same people that liked Jewell, hated Mick, the ones that liked Keane, didn't like Jewell. Too many people take the binary opposite opinion of managers to the next one."
100% this. You could have predicted the worst culprits, though I've been surprised just how quickly some have nailed their colours to the mast. |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 10:01 - Sep 4 with 5182 views | itfcjoe |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:53 - Sep 4 by unstableblue |
Apologies Joe there has been a lot of very stupid posts on this board with harsh criticism of hurst, many combined with rose tinted references to Mick.
On reflection I don’t think you’re post was one of them. |
Fair enough - I was concerned by the turnover in the summer, and some of the comments re senior players which I felt was unnecessary.
It's a big jump up from L1 to this league and I worry Hurst may have underestimated - and until we get some wins under our belt these questions will continue to be asked.
Not beating Rotherham is the one that will haunt us a bit I think, they are terrible and 3 points there rather than 0 and everything is very different | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 10:05 - Sep 4 with 5137 views | unstableblue |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:55 - Sep 4 by Dubtractor |
"This is how everything always starts, the same people that liked Jewell, hated Mick, the ones that liked Keane, didn't like Jewell. Too many people take the binary opposite opinion of managers to the next one."
100% this. You could have predicted the worst culprits, though I've been surprised just how quickly some have nailed their colours to the mast. |
I didn’t rate Keane or Jewell, never hated them. I rated Mick initially, but saw cracks in the system/approach fairly early on - those sitting back on 1-0 wins, rigid positions. And started questioning his methods; the thought police bracketed me as a nick hater and got abuse.
Don’t hate Mick; think he can be good. But not right for us. Last two seasons were terrible.
But there are 4 or 5 board members - Joe is not one - who are moving to an anti-Hurst position, referencing Mick as a comparator. Now that’s plain stupid. It’s too early. | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 10:07 - Sep 4 with 5127 views | Bobbychase |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:48 - Sep 4 by itfcjoe |
Why does everything need to be compared back and forth? I think Mick is/was a good manager here adn hope that Hurst will be too - but Hurst needs to do something to prove that here as his start has been pretty poor.
This is how everything always starts, the same people that liked Jewell, hated Mick, the ones that liked Keane, didn't like Jewell. Too many people take the binary opposite opinion of managers to the next one.
The only manager I've truly despised when he was in charge of town (not on a personal level) was Paul Jewell because he was doing such damage to the club in my view. Mick did a good job and with 4 top half finishes in 5 seasons that is a very good record.
Hurst has it all to prove, and needs to do so quickly - but please don't think that means I'm not behind him, I'm absolutely desperate for him to do well, I like the bloke, I like what he is trying to do, but I have my concerns with the way he has gone about a few things. |
Spot on. I was 'Mick In' (daft term in a way, I'm an Ipswich fan first, all other things are secondary) but I'm fully behind Hurst and what he's trying to do, regardless of disappointing results so far. |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 10:20 - Sep 4 with 5063 views | GluedtoBlue |
I think most balanced supporters would acknowledge what Chambers and Skuse bring both on and off the pitch.
I was a big fan of MM and the manner he knits the squad together - a team without harmony has never won anything. I also know it was time for MM to move on.
It is too early to judge PH. If we sat top at this moment in time it would still be too early.
The only thing you can say is that MM left the club in good shape for PH to come in.
A lot of personnel have come in but the nucleus of our togetherness built by MM remains in tact and that gives us a chance of being half decent. | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 10:21 - Sep 4 with 5050 views | DarkHorse |
| Chambers and Skuse on 09:55 - Sep 4 by Dubtractor |
"This is how everything always starts, the same people that liked Jewell, hated Mick, the ones that liked Keane, didn't like Jewell. Too many people take the binary opposite opinion of managers to the next one."
100% this. You could have predicted the worst culprits, though I've been surprised just how quickly some have nailed their colours to the mast. |
Quite. It's tiresome and ruins nearly every conversation on here about football. |  | | |
| Chambers and Skuse on 10:33 - Sep 4 with 4947 views | braveblue |
Trouble with Skuse is when he is not there we are better. Has happened so many times. On Saturday we were far more dangerous and on the front foot without him. He did a very good defensive job, winning tackles etc but just does not command the centre of midfield and offers nothing going forward. | | | |
| Chambers and Skuse on 10:42 - Sep 4 with 4897 views | Guthrum |
| Chambers and Skuse on 10:33 - Sep 4 by braveblue |
Trouble with Skuse is when he is not there we are better. Has happened so many times. On Saturday we were far more dangerous and on the front foot without him. He did a very good defensive job, winning tackles etc but just does not command the centre of midfield and offers nothing going forward. |
Would we have conceded with Skuse on the pitch? | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 10:48 - Sep 4 with 4867 views | LeagueOne |
| Chambers and Skuse on 08:54 - Sep 4 by Steve_M |
Perhaps, but there's not a lot of enjoyment to be had in being relegated either. |
Indeed. It's like the fan Chris Sutton mocked because he said he would rather Ipswich be relegated then have Mick stay. What I will say after reading that, I am slightly worried. Maybe Micks work overall has been understated and we are really in it now, because I am starting to think we are. Maybe had Mick been backed after the Playoff campaign rather then forced to sell our two biggest assets in the following seasons we wouldn't have been in the mess we were the last couple of seasons anyway. You can't play exciting football with "15 average players" either. It's a chicken and egg deal.
It also concerns me that during one of our worse periods the Chambers contract situation went on and on to the point he was out the door until a replacement couldn't be signed and he ended up staying. That sort of mess has been typical of the Evans ownership since he arrived and couldn't have helped the dressing room. If Chambers is such an asset why did that even happen? Clegg got the blame in the past with paying over the odds for players and not doing the right deals (according to Keane) and allowing players like Leadbetter, McAuley and Delaney to walk out the door for nothing, so who's fault was the Chambers contract thing? Milne?
Even now we're back to the 6 loanees problem and I am refusing to blame Hurst for this as he's having to work to a tight budget and probably can't sign permanently all he needs. |  |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 11:10 - Sep 4 with 4745 views | Steve_M |
| Chambers and Skuse on 10:48 - Sep 4 by LeagueOne |
Indeed. It's like the fan Chris Sutton mocked because he said he would rather Ipswich be relegated then have Mick stay. What I will say after reading that, I am slightly worried. Maybe Micks work overall has been understated and we are really in it now, because I am starting to think we are. Maybe had Mick been backed after the Playoff campaign rather then forced to sell our two biggest assets in the following seasons we wouldn't have been in the mess we were the last couple of seasons anyway. You can't play exciting football with "15 average players" either. It's a chicken and egg deal.
It also concerns me that during one of our worse periods the Chambers contract situation went on and on to the point he was out the door until a replacement couldn't be signed and he ended up staying. That sort of mess has been typical of the Evans ownership since he arrived and couldn't have helped the dressing room. If Chambers is such an asset why did that even happen? Clegg got the blame in the past with paying over the odds for players and not doing the right deals (according to Keane) and allowing players like Leadbetter, McAuley and Delaney to walk out the door for nothing, so who's fault was the Chambers contract thing? Milne?
Even now we're back to the 6 loanees problem and I am refusing to blame Hurst for this as he's having to work to a tight budget and probably can't sign permanently all he needs. |
Anyone who didn't appreciate the work Mick did on team spirit and unity wasn't paying enough attention, nor able to remember the mess he inherited back in 2012. The question of whether that translated into enough on the pitch is a very different one.
Chambers was looking after himself in the absence of a sensible offer which I completely understand. That he was hours from leaving the club is, as you suggest, indicative of failings from the owner again. | |
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| Chambers and Skuse on 11:33 - Sep 4 with 4665 views | Superfrans |
| Chambers and Skuse on 10:05 - Sep 4 by unstableblue |
I didn’t rate Keane or Jewell, never hated them. I rated Mick initially, but saw cracks in the system/approach fairly early on - those sitting back on 1-0 wins, rigid positions. And started questioning his methods; the thought police bracketed me as a nick hater and got abuse.
Don’t hate Mick; think he can be good. But not right for us. Last two seasons were terrible.
But there are 4 or 5 board members - Joe is not one - who are moving to an anti-Hurst position, referencing Mick as a comparator. Now that’s plain stupid. It’s too early. |
The current issue with Hurst is a simple one - you only have to look at the troubles at Macclesfield, West Ham, Shrewsbury, all propping up their divisions like us, having changed manager this summer. It can be difficult, especially when there has been a big turnover of players and a new style being implemented.
The three concerns I have now are:
a. does Hurst know what his best team/system is now, having kept the same system for the first 5 games and then made so many changes on Sunday. What will the team be for the Hull match? The initial team/system, or the team from the derby? I couldn't tell you, to be honest. It would be all guesswork.
b. is Hurst the kind of manager who can jolt us out of a poor run. Jewell wasn't able to, which was why he went in the end. He simply gave up (or told ME that he couldn't fix it). The man who should not be named *could* do this. He had a way of pulling his teams out of successive defeats, grind out a draw and then make the transition to a win.
While we're not in a run of defeats, Hurst needs to somehow fashion a performance which delivers a win.
c. If that win doesn't come soon, we could spend the next few months playing catch-up - and may run out of time to to catch-up. We're probably a mid-table team. The longer that our mid-table form takes to click into the gear, the greater the chance that it won't be enough...
This sounds like I'm negative and maybe doubting Hurst. I'm not. I believe the win will come, probably in one of the next three matches, possibly at Hull. But the anxiety still won't quite go away... | |
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