| It's almost like globalism.... 14:42 - Feb 27 with 3264 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
...is a really fragile system in terms of resilience and is all about extracting wealth for a small elite rather than looking after the real human needs of the population.
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 14:51 - Feb 27 with 3026 views | StokieBlue |
With regards to what specifically this time?
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 14:52 - Feb 27 with 3018 views | monytowbray |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 14:51 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
With regards to what specifically this time?
SB |
I think as a general comment it's fairly bang on loi. The evidence is MOST THINGS EVER. |  |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:10 - Feb 27 with 3006 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 14:51 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
With regards to what specifically this time?
SB |
It appears to be pretty much the most fragile system going when exposed to any particular external shock. | |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:13 - Feb 27 with 3000 views | StokieBlue |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:10 - Feb 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It appears to be pretty much the most fragile system going when exposed to any particular external shock. |
Do you have a comparative system which would cope with a likely global pandemic in a better way?
I would postulate that your much sort anarchism would be in a much worse position without centralised health services and research facilities.
It's far from perfect but at least be specific with the criticisms. That way perhaps they will eventually be addressed (hopeful I know but maybe in the longer term).
On a pedantic point, how can anything be external to a global system?
SB [Post edited 27 Feb 2020 15:18]
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:36 - Feb 27 with 2974 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:13 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
Do you have a comparative system which would cope with a likely global pandemic in a better way?
I would postulate that your much sort anarchism would be in a much worse position without centralised health services and research facilities.
It's far from perfect but at least be specific with the criticisms. That way perhaps they will eventually be addressed (hopeful I know but maybe in the longer term).
On a pedantic point, how can anything be external to a global system?
SB [Post edited 27 Feb 2020 15:18]
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I can certainly think of more locally resourced sustainable systems in which a global pandemic would not arise.
Why do you think that self organised, linked and mutually supportive co operatives could not organise health services and research?
So.... all these just in time production lines seem to fall apart with the arrival of an iddy biddy virus, fuel shortages and snow, too much water etc....etc...
Yes....pedantic! ;) [Post edited 27 Feb 2020 15:37]
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:47 - Feb 27 with 2955 views | StokieBlue |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:36 - Feb 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I can certainly think of more locally resourced sustainable systems in which a global pandemic would not arise.
Why do you think that self organised, linked and mutually supportive co operatives could not organise health services and research?
So.... all these just in time production lines seem to fall apart with the arrival of an iddy biddy virus, fuel shortages and snow, too much water etc....etc...
Yes....pedantic! ;) [Post edited 27 Feb 2020 15:37]
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I'm interested in your first line.
How is the sustainability or location of a system relevant to random mutations that allow a virus to leap from one species to another?
It's a personal view but I don't think smaller local health and research services would benefit from the economies or scale which benefit larger organisations. There is a reason people moved from villages to cities and why progress increased when they did.
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:51 - Feb 27 with 2942 views | Darth_Koont |
That's not globalism. You're describing unregulated, unethical and outdated capitalism.
Still a problem wherever power is abused or the neoliberal ideology has too much sway, but both are being called out more and more. |  |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:06 - Feb 27 with 2905 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 15:47 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
I'm interested in your first line.
How is the sustainability or location of a system relevant to random mutations that allow a virus to leap from one species to another?
It's a personal view but I don't think smaller local health and research services would benefit from the economies or scale which benefit larger organisations. There is a reason people moved from villages to cities and why progress increased when they did.
SB |
Mutations might occur but would be less likely to become pandemic if people were not living in such concentrations (the result of satisfying the demands of mass production) nor were they and goods routinely criss crossing the planet as part of the wealth extraction process. | |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:20 - Feb 27 with 2886 views | StokieBlue |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:06 - Feb 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Mutations might occur but would be less likely to become pandemic if people were not living in such concentrations (the result of satisfying the demands of mass production) nor were they and goods routinely criss crossing the planet as part of the wealth extraction process. |
"the result of satisfying the demands of mass production"
I don't think that is true. People moved to cities because they are more efficient than having a widely distributed infrastructure. People didn't move to satisfy the demands of mass production. There were cities like Angkor in 700 AD with 250,000 people when mass production was 1000+ years in the future.
Why do you think they moved there because your premise cannot be correct. The reasons haven't really changed since then because of the benefits.
Goods have been crossing the planet for thousands of years, take the silk road for instance. It was again a driver of prosperity and invention due to the exchange of ideas from different cultures.
SB [Post edited 27 Feb 2020 17:22]
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:29 - Feb 27 with 2866 views | HARRY10 |
I'm sure that is uppermost in the mind of those shopping at ASDA, the pound shop or online
Trading globally has been going on for centuries, it's just we are more aware now of the interdependence because of far more immediate delivery and consumption. |  | | |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:35 - Feb 27 with 2848 views | sparks |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:20 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
"the result of satisfying the demands of mass production"
I don't think that is true. People moved to cities because they are more efficient than having a widely distributed infrastructure. People didn't move to satisfy the demands of mass production. There were cities like Angkor in 700 AD with 250,000 people when mass production was 1000+ years in the future.
Why do you think they moved there because your premise cannot be correct. The reasons haven't really changed since then because of the benefits.
Goods have been crossing the planet for thousands of years, take the silk road for instance. It was again a driver of prosperity and invention due to the exchange of ideas from different cultures.
SB [Post edited 27 Feb 2020 17:22]
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Proper globalisation would have led to controls preventing livestock food sales in unregulated Chinese markets... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:45 - Feb 27 with 2833 views | HARRY10 |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:35 - Feb 27 by sparks |
Proper globalisation would have led to controls preventing livestock food sales in unregulated Chinese markets... |
"Proper globalisation"
as to...... ?
and there is no certainty of how this started | | | |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 18:01 - Feb 27 with 2803 views | NthQldITFC |
Or, more importantly, looking after the needs of the planetary ecosystem as a whole, and the human needs as a balanced part of that.
Your 'average' human doesn't seem to have the greed-moderation capability to look after anything other than it, and perhaps it's immediate family, let alone the human species as a whole, let alone the entire finite ecosystem on which it and every other living thing depends.
It really is a moronic thing, and a bit of a cull... |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 18:30 - Feb 27 with 2785 views | StokieBlue |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 17:45 - Feb 27 by HARRY10 |
"Proper globalisation"
as to...... ?
and there is no certainty of how this started |
What do you mean there is no certainty? What are you implying?
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 18:34 - Feb 27 with 2772 views | DarkHorse |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 18:30 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
What do you mean there is no certainty? What are you implying?
SB |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 19:03 - Feb 27 with 2743 views | sparks |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 18:30 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
What do you mean there is no certainty? What are you implying?
SB |
The reports are quite clear and likely correct. True globalisation would have global rules on public health. Not that I actually support such a thing. It just shows the absurdity of trying to crowbar globalisation in as some root cause for a virus...
Notably the system doesn't seem fragile at all. All working fine. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 19:40 - Feb 27 with 2713 views | HARRY10 |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 18:30 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
What do you mean there is no certainty? What are you implying?
SB |
we are not certain | | | |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 19:51 - Feb 27 with 2705 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 19:03 - Feb 27 by sparks |
The reports are quite clear and likely correct. True globalisation would have global rules on public health. Not that I actually support such a thing. It just shows the absurdity of trying to crowbar globalisation in as some root cause for a virus...
Notably the system doesn't seem fragile at all. All working fine. |
That will explain why the stock markets are not tanking then...all that stability and expected control.
I must have missed the part where globalisation became the root cause of a virus....this is more about the inherent fragility of overly complex systems when exposed to a shock. | |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 22:45 - Feb 27 with 2636 views | StokieBlue |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 19:40 - Feb 27 by HARRY10 |
we are not certain |
Experts are certain, they just haven't pinned down the animal but it's likely either bats or pangolins.
Once again, what are you implying and why are you attempting to seed doubt? If you are willing to hint at things you should be willing to say them.
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 23:22 - Feb 27 with 2623 views | sparks |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 19:51 - Feb 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That will explain why the stock markets are not tanking then...all that stability and expected control.
I must have missed the part where globalisation became the root cause of a virus....this is more about the inherent fragility of overly complex systems when exposed to a shock. |
Stock markets react to things. Normal. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 23:40 - Feb 27 with 2613 views | WeWereZombies |
I think you are channelling George W. somewhat here, back when he declared a 'War on Terror' it was pointed out that you cannot declare war on a tactic. By analogy you cannot hold up globalisation as a system when it is an effect of either capitalism or communism.
Some philosophers even hold that a simple construct can spread in complex, unpredictable and surprising forms:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_Game_of_Life
So there could be a zero-player game interpretation of globalisation but that still makes it an inevitable outcome of an initial state rather than a system. |  |
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 23:53 - Feb 27 with 2605 views | HARRY10 |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 22:45 - Feb 27 by StokieBlue |
Experts are certain, they just haven't pinned down the animal but it's likely either bats or pangolins.
Once again, what are you implying and why are you attempting to seed doubt? If you are willing to hint at things you should be willing to say them.
SB |
From a few hours ago
"The possible animal source of COVID-19 has not yet been confirmed. Some scientists suspect the new virus passed to humans via pangolins, but this theory is yet to be proven. "
So when I wrote much earlier that the cause was not certain that was correct - and appears to still hold true.
How on earth you can spin a clear and unambigious statement that it isn;t certain what the cause is into 'implying, seed doubt, hint' I cannot for the life of me imagine.
Had I offered some alternative theory, cause etc then challenge that. But all I have done is state, what you have stated, the actual cause is not known at this moment ie it is not certain. | | | |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 00:19 - Feb 28 with 2596 views | StokieBlue |
| It's almost like globalism.... on 23:53 - Feb 27 by HARRY10 |
From a few hours ago
"The possible animal source of COVID-19 has not yet been confirmed. Some scientists suspect the new virus passed to humans via pangolins, but this theory is yet to be proven. "
So when I wrote much earlier that the cause was not certain that was correct - and appears to still hold true.
How on earth you can spin a clear and unambigious statement that it isn;t certain what the cause is into 'implying, seed doubt, hint' I cannot for the life of me imagine.
Had I offered some alternative theory, cause etc then challenge that. But all I have done is state, what you have stated, the actual cause is not known at this moment ie it is not certain. |
Virtually all experts agree it passed to humans in a market in Wuhan hence sparks reply was perfectly reasonable. Whether it was from a bat or pangolin doesn't change the point he was making so your "unambiguous" statement was irrelevant to the point.
I will say I read it as having an unwritten meaning though given what it was responding to.
The pangolin theory is not new, it's been around for at least 2 or 3 weeks.
SB [Post edited 28 Feb 2020 0:30]
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| It's almost like globalism.... on 01:33 - Feb 28 with 2566 views | Doctor_Earman |
As opposed to communism of course which has proven to be very resistant to both internal and external shocks. | | | |
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